Talk:Starfleet uniforms

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is part of WikiProject Star Trek, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to all Star Trek-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

Star Trek Portal

This article was nominated for deletion on August 9, 2006. The result of the discussion was keep. An archived record of this discussion can be found here.

[edit] Discussion

This needs rewriting according to WP:FICT, even if not deleted. Things to mention

• different uniforms in The Cage, and also Where No Man Has Gone Before
• the actual real-life costume designers
• where we get this blue/red/yellow business from - is it mentioned in dialog?
• redshirts!
• the different variants of Kirk's uniform
• some crossreferencing to insignia
• variant costumes for other purposes - dress uniform, spacesuits, work gear, etc
• the way we see in Star Trek: Generations the NCC1701D crew wearing both types of uniforms
  • why, in the real world, was this uniform changed
• miniskirts
• miniskirts for men in season 1 of TNG (quickly dropped)
• Troi's nonstandard uniforms
• the use of um, "padding", for female actors in the show
  • this is reasonably well-documented in interviews
• re-appearances of old uniforms in other shows : particularly the TOS uniforms in A Mirror, Darkly and Trials and Tribble-ations
• no mention of the movie uniforms!!!
• what material were they actually made of (spandex for the TNG ones i gather. they were usually called "space suits" by the cast and were extremely hot - should be interviews about this)
• the availability replica uniforms

and that's just if we are keeping to this name. A general Costumes in Star Trek article would have far more topics, particularly about William Ware Theiss's habit of exposing as much female guest star skin as he possibly could without being remotely obscene. Morwen - Talk 12:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Because of a) the availability of replica uniforms and b) the ability to make a drawing of the uniforms, if not take a free photo, the screencaps clearly fail criteria #1 of WP:FUC and so have been removed. ed g2s • talk 13:42, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

That's a poor decision. Taking photos of a trekkie wearing his gear is nothing like as informative or authoritative as screencaps from the actual series. I don't see when you're describing uniforms used on the series anything could possibly compare to, well, photos of people in the series! Although I had to wonder, were they actually genuine screencaps? Are there really so many scenes where apparently the entire cast lines up in front of the camera? Stevage 14:59, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

no, they weren't screencaps. they were publicity stills. Morwen - Talk 16:12, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I am all in for most of those changes. I agree article needs work. I reccomend on screen appearances over uniform replicas as what appeared on the show is only official. I also am happy with articles title. Starfleet occupies most of the show. A seperate article about other costumes (such as the bajorans, romulans and cardassians) can be created. Starfleet is the main "entity" everything else is just minor. --Cat out 17:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually this is not really true. Theiss's costume designs for random female guest stars are probably the most notable feature of the show. Morwen - Talk 17:58, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I am not saying it was unnotable (notability is a binary concept in my view something is either notable or it isnt). All I am suggesting is that this article will grow too large just by "starfleet" people which dominated the show. --Cat out 18:02, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The purpose of the images is to show what the costumes look like (or at least the primary purpose, and the one for which Fair Use is claimed). A drawing, whilst not as "authoritative", or indeed as good as the promo shots, would still serve the primary purpose adequately, conveying the essential information. ed g2s • talk 18:48, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I do not mind free alternatives. Its just that replicas are just not like the ones on the show. Show uniforms costed several thousand dollars each...

Furthermore it is much much easier to identify uniforms with pictures rather than ranting about them for ages.

--Cat out 19:10, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Nonetheless, it should be possible to illustrate the designs freely and adequately. ed g2s • talk 00:25, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. What about dress uniforms? Surgical uniforms? Space suits? However I'd like to argue about this after the AfD. --Cat out 12:15, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I didn't remove pictures of any of those. As I don't know what they look like, I couldn't comment. ed g2s • talk 13:07, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh I was speaking long term. The more causal (duty) uniforms were in the article. But there are lots and lots more beyond that. No single wikipedians income can have all that. Some uniforms dont have replicas such as various space suits. --Cat out 13:22, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but long term we should try to create free alternatives. Allowing fair use as a temporary measure removes all motivation to create such images. ed g2s • talk 17:02, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

No it removes credible citation from the article. Untill free alternatives are avalible, fair use images should be used. I really dont want to talk about uniforms blindly. --Cat out 18:55, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

There's an interview with Bob Blackman here -> [1] Morwen - Talk 17:58, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Interesting. I'll read it right away. --Cat out 18:02, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I kinda love ya. That is an excelent source. Semi-cannon, but more than acceptable. --Cat out 18:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)