Talk:St. Patrick School (Wadsworth, Illinois)

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[edit] Merging

It's a pretty bad idea because it's based solely on geographical location. It would be far better, if merging were thought necessary, to merge on the basis of parishes and public school districts. However merging is seldom satisfactory in the long term; school articles have a habit of growing if only they're permitted to. --Tony SidawayTalk 22:07, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Merging is desirable because these two line stubs are really causing a lot of ill feeling throughout wikipedia, and whilst there is consenus to delete them, there is often no consensus to keep them either. You only became aware of the existence of this school because it was added to a list. Many of the articles on school watch have never grown after they scraped through VFD and just sit there gathering spiders' webs.

Stub articles on schools are also highly repetitous, many of them share common links and many say "X is school in Y Z", so merging them to a "List of schools in Y Z" allows a much cleaner article. The whole principle of allowing something rather unremarkable like a school have its own article is making wikipedia into a wasteland, people visit it and are distinctly unimpressed. Remember the adage "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts" — this really does apply to schools and you should really reconsider. Otherwise why not have an article for each atom in the universe? There is a dividing line somewhere. --Tim Pope 22:16, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Well this is the problem. You refer to "these two line stubs." Which two line stubs? Are you aware that I retrieved North_Sydney_Girls_High_School as a one line stub that was wrongly speedied when it was just ten minutes old? That article was VfD'd at only 18 days old. The article is now 250 words in length and virtually undeletable, one of the most established articles on the Wiki.

For a two line stub see the article we are discussing.

You refer to "bad feeling" being caused by stubs. Could you explain how it manifests itself? I certainly see no such bad feeling in the VfD discussions, where typically despite some extreme personal attacks on people who favor the keeping and editing of school articles the vote repeatedly favors keeping schools against both deletion and merging.

Bad feeling is how I perceive discussions at some of the VfD discussions at the attempt at consensus at Wikipedia: Schools, plus the kind of language you use indicates to me that you are less than totally calm in dealing with dissent from the keep side of the debate.

YOu say "Many of the articles on school watch have never grown after they scraped through VFD and just sit there gathering spiders' webs.". This I knwow to be categorically false. You even have to lie in describing how school articles survive VfD. They don't scrape through, they sail through, some of them (like the one I cited above, which was VfD'd as a single-line stub) with far more votes to keep than votes to delete.

OK, some schools swan through, usually ones which arte quite well developed, but the shorts ones either end no consensus, or a scrape through 60%-40%.

But stop trying to twist the facts to suit you, look at the school-related articles that have survived deletion since May 1. First notice the number: 147. In that time, no articles about actual schools, except one copyright violation, have been deleted. Now you say these are all just little stubs that have just scraped VfD. This is utter nonsense. No class of article that has been so repeatedly listed on VfD over the same period has survived so easily.

Please do not accuse me of twisting the facts. "Easily" is subjective. See above, how many other articles which survive Vfd attract 40-50% opposition?

They aren't all masterpieces, and a small number of them in fact haven't been edited that much. But your principal thesis is false. School articles are not "scraping VfD" and then being neglected to any greater degree than is true of other articles. They're just being listed for deletion by people who are too lazy to do any research and don't believe that anybody else would take the trouble. --Tony SidawayTalk 23:16, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

If they are not all masterpieces, why object to merging them? The better ones can stay as individual school articles, any that outgrow the list can be split off.

List of school-related articles nominated for deletion, and kept, in the period May 1 to early August, 2005.


I'll reply to this later, but please refrain from saying that I tell lies. WP:NPA. --Tim Pope 06:57, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Responded to points above, please note that here we are discussing merging rather than deletion.

--Tim Pope 16:54, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Attribution

This article contains material originating from two edits by Visvica (User:Visviva) to the article Millburn_School, Wadsworth, Illinois. --Tony SidawayTalk 23:55, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

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