Talk:Spiritualism
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[edit] Reincarnation
The doctrine of reincarnation may be widespread among today's Spiritualists, and it has long been a core belief in Spiritism, but it is lacking among the Spiritualists of the nineteenth century. In fact, the lack of a belief in reincarnation provides the best marker for distinguishing traditional Spiritualism from New Age beliefs and Spiritism (In the References, Braude 2001 and Carroll 1997 give detailed pictures of traditional Spiritualism). Thus I must disagree with 24.154.155.248, who asserts that Spiritualists believe in reincarnation, and can only assume that 24.154.155.248 refers to the current, syncretic practice (which is discussed two paragraphs further down in the article). Anthon.Eff 15:13, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
What is the difference between spiritism and spiritualism? I think some information here should be moved to spiritism Andries 22:25, 21 Feb 2004 (UTC)
- In Brazil at least "Spiritualism" is an umbrella term for various movements that preach the existence and religious relevance of some sort of "soul" or "spirit". "Spiritism" is nearly always used to mean Kardecism (sometimes also Umbanda). Although there are lots of misinformation around, neither Spiritism nor Spiritualism have much to do with Buddhism, which in fact specifically denies the existence of a true soul. Luis Dantas 00:17, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)
- BTW - I agree that some of the info in this article belongs to spiritism instead. Luis Dantas 00:18, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)
The article mentions the start of Spiritualism relating to the United States, but fails to point out that modern Spiritualism has its roots in the automatic writings and seances of William Stainton Moses recieved in the 1870's, whose book Spirit Teachings, is considered one of the first such works.
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- Another issue with this: while there is a movement called Spiritism (ie Kardec), the term is also used as a pejorative name for Spiritualism (ie the Spiritualist church) by its opponents. For instance, The Catholic Encyclopedia uses "Spiritism" in that sense, while reserving "Spiritualism" as a philosophical term for the opposite of materialism. RayGirvan 00:57, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Buddhism and Hinduism
The current version of the article needs revision where it describes these two faiths' beliefs. Buddhism does not have a true "soul" concept - it is one of the major differences between it and Hinduism; see Anatta - nor does it really support any true reincarnation concept; see Rebirth (Buddhism). Also, HPB does not really have similar reincarnation beliefs to those of Hinduism, which are arguably not at all homogeneous to begin with. Her ideas are often presented as being accurate depictions of traditional Hinduist belief, but that is not the same thing. In fact, René Guénon and others claim that reincarnation is actually a 19th century concept. Luis Dantas 05:18, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Spirit disambiguation
The word spirit in the article directs to a disambiguation page. Would "ghost" or "spiritual being" be a better link? Joyous 00:13, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)
[edit] History of Spiritualism
Could someone flesh out the history of the movement?
- Several movements could lay claim to a "spiritualist" ideology. Added link to Modern Spiritualist movementZosodada 9 July 2005 18:42 (UTC)
I was wondering when the Spiritualism movement first started, and how it might relate to the Second Great Awakening, which happened roughly 1800-1840 and the Third Great Awakening, which happened roughly 1880-1910. Another event in American religon around the mid 19th century was the publication of The Origin of Species in 1859. I'm thinking that Darwinism brought about a crisis in faith, starting around 1860. Darwinism (or at least the pop-science idea of it, not the theory itsefl) was a materalistic, logical belief system which denied the spiritual and the emotional. Spiritualism was an irrational, emotional, response to that system, and it looks like that started about 1870. I think the movement signaled a dissatisfaction with the world view of the Second Great Awakening, and was a precursor to the Third Great Awakening. An analogy would be the Beatnik movement, which was a precursor to the hippie/counterculture movement. (I think the hippie movement, or whatever you want to call it, was the Fourth Great Awakening. What do you all think? crazyeddie 05:30, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
The Modern Spiritualist movement started March 31, 1848 with the development of spiritual gifts by the Fox Sisters. Although they sold a story to expose the gifts as a hoax when in need of money I have added a link that later proved their gifts when their home was moved in a later date. I would point to the authors Andrew Jackson Davis, Cora Richmond and Judge Edmonds as the individuals that best caught the original thought and energy of the movement that counted 10% of the US population ( 1870 census) when Christainity had 25%.Steve3311848 17:11, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
I've rewritten the article to provide the basics of Spiritualism's history. I also edited the existing material, which mostly pertained to what members of today's American Spiritualist Church believe. I'll wait a few weeks, to get feedback, and then I think the article needs a few more things:
- 1) Merge Modern Spiritualist movement into this article.
- 2) Remove some of the links--it seems that some people wish to include almost everything "spiritual" in Spiritualism, but the article should (in my opinion) stick with Spiritualism.
- 3) Something more concrete about what makes Spiritualism different from Spiritism and New Age views, since some contributors (are they Spiritists?) apparently think the distinction is important. Once this is done, it might be possible to discuss the remnants of Spiritualism that exist in Mexico, the Phillipines, and other countries.
Anthon.Eff 17:46, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Joseph Kony
I added Ugandan rebel leader, Joseph Kony, of the Lord's Resistance Army, to the list of well-known believers. freestylefrappe 03:54, May 21, 2005 (UTC)
- Spiritualism was a phenomenon of North America and--to a lesser extent--of Europe. It can be distinguished from the contemporaneous occult movements (the Theosophical Society of the 1870s, for example) by its focus on communicating with the dead--any dead, but especially with the relatives of the believers--whereas the occult movements sought to gain magical powers--Blavatsky, for example,communicated only with spirits who could convey occult knowledge. Someone like Joseph Kony--not from the time period, not from the geographical area, and who clearly claims to use occult powers (spells to bullet-proof his soldiers)--does not belong in an article on Spiritualism.Anthon.Eff 17:28, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Merge Spiritualist Church into Spiritualism
Should these be merged? -- nirvana2013 14:22, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
Yes merge these topics --wjbentley 29 October 2005
My vote would be no. The current churches are dismal examples of the movement and the individuals involved ( noted exceptions) from the 19th century. Steve3311848 17:11, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "Spiritualism" and "Spiritism" in other languages
I added a link to a Dutch wikipedia article called "Spiritisme". Unlike English, where "Spiritism" seems to be limited to Kardec's teachings, there are many languages where words similar to "Spiritism" actually mean Spiritualism. So maybe the list of links to other languages could and should be longer; consequently, there are probably some links in the Spiritism article that in fact belong here, in the Spiritualism article. GdB 22:50, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Merge Modern Spiritualist movement into Spiritualism??
Spiritualism is usually seen as the movement beginning with the Fox sisters in 1848 (in upstate New York, where so many of the events of the Second Great Awakening occured). The movement can be described as extremely individualistic, so that efforts to form a national organization and a single coherent dogma largely failed. The lack of dogma and lack of widely accepted texts means that one cannot easily describe Spiritualism by talking of its content, as the present article does. It would be better to focus on its history as the Modern Spiritualist movement article does.Anthon.Eff 17:28, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
- Individual dogma is still dogma, and indeed it is often the most resilient variety of dogma. Luis Dantas 05:12, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
That is exactly why I created the Modern Spiritualist Movement article, AE. Unfortunately someone has deleted that and merged. There needs to be another article called, as academics and historians call it "The Modern Spiritualist Movement" which took place in the US and UK, without fuzzing the subject up with various animistic threads from all aprts of the world. I suspect that some element of bias has gone into the decision to merge an objective history and overview into this article. Zosodada.
[edit] Moved some content to Spiritualist Church
I tried to trim down the article by paring off the portion relating to current Spiritualist practice and putting that in the Spiritualist Church article. Perhaps I am being overly bold, but my intention is to reserve the Spiritualist Church article for contributions pertaining to the current organized practice, and to reserve the Spiritualism article for contributions on the historical movement during its heyday (1840s-1920s). I think that way we will get two very useful articles out of the current hodgepodge. Anthon.Eff 17:23, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Added Amy Post because of her importance
Amy Post is credited with being the "Mother" of Spirtualism. See *[1]. For this section to be complete, she must be mentioned. It would be like an AMerican history section without George Washington.
[edit] Doyle
I don't know much about Spiritualism, but only that it's discussed at great length in "Arthus and George," the novel about Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. You conisder adding Doyle to the list of prominent members and a link to his page and the page about "Arthur and George." BernieD 17:41, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] InterFarFacing
Someone needs to write an article for Cora L. V. Scott (the www.interfarfacing.com website prefers to call her Cora Richmond). Why don't you do that instead of vandalizing this article? Anthon.Eff 02:59, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] high on something
r u guys all high on something, or have a history of using
[edit] Blavatsky Example Cut
Blavatsky is perhaps not the best example of the spiritualist/occultist divide, as in its early years her Theosophical Society was very much interested in practical experimentation, magic, the Cabbala, and the like. See especially material regarding the 1875 lecture by George Felt at the meeting at which the foundation of the Society was first proposed.--Danharms 18:20, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- If Blavatsky is not the best example, it would be nice to introduce a better example, rather than simply deleting sourced text. In the meantime, until you introduce your better example, I have reverted your edit. --Anthon.Eff 21:34, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
