Talk:Spain

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This article was nominated for deletion on 30 July 2006. The result of the discussion was Speedy Keep due to vandalism.

Archives
Archive 1

Contents 1 Muslim Iberia 2 New Data 3 Contradictory figures? 4 spain and Australia 5 Disambig note at the top. 6 Long 7 AfD closed 8 Conflicting accounts 9 Inflation and Silver imports 10 Es absurdo poner "Reino de España" en tantos idiomas 11 Castilian Spanish 12 Spain has the 8th largest economy in the world. 13 Guanches 14 Spain and the 21st Century 15 Etimology and guanches 16 Zaragoza 17 Felipe gonzalez 18 Autonomous comunities 19 Armada? 20 Vandals 21 Spain Facts Galore 22 we gotta protect this article from vandalism 23 Nice article 24 Spain and the Euro 25 11M 26 Murcianese?

[edit] Muslim Iberia

In this section it says the Moorish population grew very large during the later Muslim dynasties but nothing is said about this in the Al-Andalus article. I am doubtful of the validity of this claim because it says there were many moors in the Ebro river valley but this is an area of spain that was only briefly under Moorish control. Can someone either source this or remove it? (I know some Moors came but I think this section as it stands is inaccurate) KingOfAfrica 20:57, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I put that in. Zaragoza, in the heart of the Ebro river valley, was under Muslim rule from the early eighth century to the early twelth century - 4 centuries! - plenty of time for a large Moorish population to grow. Indeed, so important a Muslim centre did it become that it broke off to be the capital of its own independent Muslim (taifa) kingdom, centred in the rich valley - surviving long after other northern Muslim controlled areas had fallen to the Christians.

That means nothing. Most Muslims in Iberia were local converts! The Ogre 17:45, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

- Eventually.

[edit] New Data

Barcelona's Metropolitan Area is 5.150.000 (updated 2006) in 3.925 km2 (1.515 ml2), as it is observed in... http://bcnip.blogsome.com/la-region-metropolitana-de-Barcelona (data 2005)

[edit] Contradictory figures?

Someone whose name I don't remember has recently asked for source citations in the figures about religion. While I support his petition, I don't think those figures are, as he stated in the edit summary, contradictory: they just need capitalizing. 40% of people believe in God (that's the Christian God), while 16% of people do not believe in any god (that's any kind of religion). The other 44% of people could believe in Allah (which, by the way, is Arab for "God"), Zeus, Odin or whatever. So the figures are not contradictory. Habbit 17:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] spain and Australia

to what im lead to believe is that the name of Australia actually originated with the spanish. is this what is taught in Europe? I believe that Quiros came with the name of Austrialia del Espiritu Santo for an island he landed on which he thought was the great southern continent (present day Australia) in 1606.

Though it is thought that his chief pilot Luis Vaez de Torres sighted Australia when he travelled through the Torres straight - the torres straight is named after him - also in 1606.

see http://www.namingaustralia.org.au/Docs/Quirostriptico.pdf

also, Although i do not know how to speak latin but i believe that Great southern land in latin is said like "valde inferus terra". So im not sure how the theory that Australia is latin for great southern land, could someone explain that to me, or as the article says Australis means south, though the online translators say otherwise :S

Not sure about the Australia del Espíritu Santo: sounds likely but I really don't know. I can confirm, though, that in Latin Australis means Southern and -ia is a common ending naming nations like Hispania, Gallia, Italia. Therefore, yes, Australia can be translated from Latin like Southern Land or Southern NationMountolive 02:07, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambig note at the top.

Can I add an dismabig note at the top? Because I made an article about España Boulevard, and since España redirects here, I think it'll be valid if a disambig note is added. --Howard the Duck 08:29, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Long

In the last week or so I have reviewed all of the European country articles for Version 0.5, and the history section in this article (12 screens) stands out as being much longer than most. I don't deny Spain has a lot of history, but compare with France (2 screens, a bit short IMHO) and Germany (7 screens, about the limit IMHO). The reader is first directed to a main article on History of Spain, but the "summary" history section that follows runs to 12 screens. Could someone please try making this history overview more concise? Perhaps some of the material might even be usefully integrated into the main history article (which is around 16 screens). Thanks! Walkerma 03:35, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

just when i was going to suggest more information to add :P well i do think that the history section of spain is very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very verry very very very very long.... perhaps some on muslim spain should be taken out as it rambles on as if it is the main article.

The history section is twice as long as it need be. Those who want to full detail can go to the History of Spain page. No more infomation should be added.203.214.85.30 04:42, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree, it is way too long. Would someone with a high degree of knowledge like to reduce its size? The Ecclesiastical history section of the Valencia article is also quite absurdly long. --Bcnviajero 17:55, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

A year ago it was too sketchy and even in its later parts downright insulting. Now we've turned it around but it has become too rich and has ended up a defacto "History of Spain" article. I'll start the reduction process by starting on that new (and useful) subsection on the early nineteenth century - I'll try to keep the gist of what's there but leave the nuts and bolts of personalitie, events, etc to the appropriate history page. Cheers Provocateur 03:34, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I consider the introduction to be absurdly long as well. There is no need to mention every single m2 of Spanish territory on it. The mention to Peñón de Alhucemas, Llívia (!!!) etc. on it sound exaggerated. There are many countries with many more overseas territories and they are mentioned on the proper session of the articles, not on the intro.

--Lunarboy 9:21, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps the second paragraph, about the borders and teritories, could be moved to the Geography section, with a single-setence summary about the borders remaining in the intro. I added the mention of the exclaves in the first paragraph not too long back as a compromise between Spain being in Europe or in Europe and North Africa, and so should probably remain. Thryduulf 08:57, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

There. I've shortened the early 19th century but tried to keep its basic story intact. I'll try compressing other history subsections on this page soon. Provocateur 04:22, 27 November 2006 (UTC) It's now just over 8. Provocateur 03:25, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AfD closed

This article was nominated for deletion on 2006-07-30. The result of the discussion was speedy keep.

[edit] Conflicting accounts

i got conflicting accounts on the population of Spain.

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sp.html

it says there the population of spain is 40 million, not 44 million

hell i have left this up for weeks and no one has responded

Thant's an obselete figure, chec it in the national institute of statitistics from Spain www.ine.es

--Pedrojfg 10:06, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inflation and Silver imports

The article currently states "rising influx of silver and gold from the colonies in the Americas in the last decades of the 16th century ultimately resulted in economically damaging rampant inflation and led to economic depression by the 17th century."

The importation of gold was unimportant in the last decades of the 16th century, it was silver.

Most of the rest of my comments follow pages 62-69 of J.H. Elliott's "Europe Divided 1559-1598" (1968) (The dates basically represent the reign of Philip II of Spain)

Spanish Debt, 1500s Imports, 1500-1650

Azpilcueta was the contemporary Spanish scholar who originally posited the correlation. Bodin's "Response a M. de Malestroit" (1568) also covered it. Elliott, talking of this theory and its accuracy in Europe in general, writes "Neither Azpilcueta nor Bodin, however, argued that American silver was the sole cause of the price-rise, and any such assumption runs into a number of serious difficulties. In Italy, for instance, the steepest price-rise of the entire century occurred between 1552 and 1560, at a time when American silver was apparently entering the peninsula in too small a quantity to have a spectactular impact on prices. In the years after 1570, when large amounts of silver were flowing into Italy from Spain, Italian prices actually fell."

Elliott also points out that food prices rose faster than manufactured goods, which is consistent, he writes, with the very large post-plague populations increases in Europe in the 16th century.

Inflation doubled prices in the first half of the century, when silver imports were unimportant (see graphs).

I also believe this argument comes out of a certain strain of thinking on economic matters (gold-standard supporters) who think the value of money _should_ be tied to the rate that miners can extract certain elements of the periodic table from the ground (Pt,Au,Ag). If it _should_ be the basis of money, then of course when its availability changes, price changes follow.

[edit] Es absurdo poner "Reino de España" en tantos idiomas

No tiene ningún sentido ni ninguna justificación desde el punto de vista de una enciclopedia (seria) poner "Reino de España" en idiomas no oficiales en España e incluso en idiomas no oficiales ni hablados prácticamente en los sus lugares de origen (como el asturiano!!!!!! o el occitano!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

There is no reason to write "Reino de España" in all that languages which are not official in all Spain and some of them even nor in their respective areas of origin.

Why is absurd to put it in languages simply because some of those languages are official only in parts of the Spanish state? They are still official languages.

Also, please learn to sign your messages.

--Bcnviajero 11:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

It IS absurd because some of those languages are not official. For the same reason "Reino de España" shouldn't be there in Swahili, Swedish or Cantonese, it shouldn't be in Asturianu or Occità. This is not a language related article Gololo 11:26, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Neither asturian nor occitan (aranese is not occitan precisely) are official languages de facto in Spain.

[edit] Castilian Spanish

The names of the country and its languages confuses. Castilian Spanish is the official language of Spain, nationwide. It is not Catalan, Valencian, Galician or Basque, so why should these languges be translated simultaneosly and also be listed under the official languages heading?

I totally agree with this Anonymous user. Spanish is the only official language in Spain. Catalan, Basque, Gallego, Valencian, etc etc, when official, they are only in some parts of Spain, and in the Constitution, i believe it says "Co-officials languages in its respective territories". Someone should make a distinction here, because the article is not accurate. Gololo 11:23, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I think the footnotes would solve the issue. I've added footnotes. -- Szvest 09:41, 22 August 2006 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up ®}

The Spanish Constitution says that there's 5 official languages (the Spanish Constitution article about it in English and in Spanish). Why should wikipedia differ with what the Spanish Constitution says?

"2. The other Spanish languages shall also be official in the respective Self-governing Communities in accordance with their Statutes."

These languages are official in those Communities, those Communities are part of Spain so they are official in Spain although not in the whole of Spain. The Constitution recognizes them all as official as you can see in it's official website:

"La Constitución en lenguas oficiales de España:

Castellano

Catalán

Euskera

Gallego

Valenciano"

So I just edited to what the Spanish Constitution says and not what extreme right winged people think. Heffeque 02:35, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Spanish is NOT the only official language in Spain. It is the official language for the whole country, that's true, but the are some regions which have both Spanish and other language as official languages such as Galicia, Cataluña, Comunidad Valenciana...

Spanish IS the ONLY official language in the country. Catalan and Basque are official only in their provinces, along with Spanish.--Gligan 09:49, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

El valenciano es un dialecto del catalán haber si nos enteramos.

[edit] Spain has the 8th largest economy in the world.

False: Spain has the ninth largest economy in the world. True: Spain has the 8th largest economy in the world. True: The fifth largest in Europe.

See The Economist.

Thanks.

[edit] Guanches

There's also a very reduced number of guanche people, the original natives of the Canary Islands (a Spaniard insular region located off the northwestern African coast).

Are there people who are acknowleged generally as Guanches or is this simply people who identify themselves as such? --Error 15:54, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

The Guanches have been gone for a loooooong time. I guess some Canarian nationalists would like to stress this breeding, something quite complicated to say the least, since the Guanches were never a big population and the ones who survived the conquest merged with the newcomers leaving virtually no evidence of their culture in the current culture of the islands other than places names. In other words: no, there is no people acknowledged as Guanches anymore....at least for the moment, since some of the many Spain's haters could rise soon and do something about it. Mountolive 23:19, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spain and the 21st Century

I think this part of the article is a little bare, so I'm going to add a few lines about the Prestige disaster of 2002, as the Wikipedia article said it was the worst environmental disaster in Spanish history. We need more information for this section! Istabo 22:39, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Etimology and guanches

I have erased the highly hypothetical etimology for the name Spain taking it back to the Phoenicians, leaving the obvious and uncontested Latin etimology instead: I just don't think these bizzarre hypothetical etimologies really add anything to whatever the matter is. I have erased the line saying that there is a very reduced number of guanche people since that is simply not true for the last 500 years. Thanks Mountolive 23:30, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zaragoza

Research before editing, see List_of_metropolitan_areas_in_Spain_by_population, Zaragoza is NOT the 7th metropolitan area of Spain by far. David 17:16, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Felipe gonzalez

The article said that Felipe Gonzalez won three times consecutive the electiones, that is false, he won four times in 1982, 1986, 1989 and 1993

[edit] Autonomous comunities

'Spain is, at present, what is called a State of Autonomies, formally unitary but, in fact, functioning as a Federation of Autonomous Communities, each one with different powers (for instance, some have their own educational and health systems, co-official language and particular cultural identity) and laws'

"some have their own educational and health systems" the word some is false, ALL the autonomous comunities rule their own heath and educational system.

Nowadays all the autonomous comunities have its own health system. The Insalud does not exist any more since 2003.

[edit] Armada?

Am I the only person who thinks it strange that a history of Spain does not explicitly mention the Armada? Nortino 16:54, 29 October 2006 (UTC) Nor does it mention Lepanto, St. Quentin, etc. These battles have their own pages and are also mentioned in other history pages such as the History of Spain, Spanish Habsburgs, etc.

dont iu think this spain pres. really looks like Michael Keaton.--WalterHumala wanna talk? 04:34, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm just kidding, the main point of my joke is Why is this discussion too short, thus the article is so long??? .--WalterHumala wanna talk? 04:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandals

This page is vandalized every day, several times a day. Is there a way to protect it from the anonymous IP's which come over and over again with the same "penis" "homosexual" "aids" things? If so,~someone PLEASE proceed! Mountolive 23:22, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I did it myself. If you don't agree, feel free to revert. Mountolive 03:57, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spain Facts Galore

Hey everyone. I am in college and I am studing some el espanol (spanish). Here are some very interesting facts on Spain and more! Come on in!

[edit] we gotta protect this article from vandalism

dude have you seen the vandalism recently 69.236.161.228 00:26, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

i want to delete it but i don't know how69.236.161.228 00:28, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nice article

Despite my edits above, I think this is a pretty nice article and 'cuz of recent vandalism it ought to be protected from anon useredits. --Walter Humala |wanna Talk? 03:44, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spain and the Euro

The article as it stands now simply states the Spain adopted the Euro in 1999. While this is true, it is incomplete, since the date of its adoption is not the same date as when it began circulating. According to this article in the New York Times, the Euro went into circulation in various European countries, including Spain, on January 1, 2002 ( http://travel2.nytimes.com/fodors/top/features/travel/destinations/europe/italy/florence/fdrs_feat_63_11.html?n=Top%2FFeatures%2FTravel%2FDestinations%2FEurope%2FItaly%2FFlorence ). According to the same article, "the 'dual circulation' period ended for member countries on February 28, 2002."

Other sources: http://spanish.about.com/library/weekly/aa010102a.htm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1514799.stm

Callmenewanda 07:09, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 11M

Your article says: "On March 11 2004, a series of bombs exploded in commuter trains in Madrid, Spain. This act of terror killed 191 people and wounded 1,460 more, besides having a dramatic effect on the upcoming national elections. The 11 March 2004 Madrid train bombings had an adverse effect on the then-ruling conservative party Partido Popular (PP) which polls were giving as a likely winner of the elections, thus helping the election of Zapatero's Partido Socialista Obrero Español (PSOE). There were two nights of incidents around the PP headquarters, with PSOE accusing the PP of hiding the truth by saying that the incidents were caused by ETA. These incidents are still a cause of discussion, since some factions of the PP suggest that the elections were "stolen" by means of the turmoil which followed the terrorist bombing, which was, according to this point of view, backed or fuelled by the PSOE. These incidents did interfere with the last day of campaigning when, according to the Spanish electoral system regulations, any kind of political propaganda is prohibited and PP's candidate (Mariano Rajoy) appeared in some newspapers as interior minister."

Are you sure that the bombs atacks caused a "dramatic effect on the upcoming national elections"? Are you sure that PP were won the elections without the atacks? I'm spanish and I'm not sure. Are you fortune tellers or wikiwritters?

This part of de article is not neutral.

84.123.205.143 00:07, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I am Spanish too and let me remember you that Rajoy indeed appeared as a response to the previous appearance of Alfredo Pérez Rubalcaba, which had broken the reflection day to accuse not only the Government but also the PP of lying to manipulate the election. Oh, and IIRC Rajoy had left the Government long before due to, precisely, his nomination as the PP candidate: the Interior Minister at the time was Ángel Acebes. So whether or not the PP Government was lying, withholding information, or being withheld some by the PSOE member and CNI chief Jorge Dezcállar, we still don't know, but the party that first ignored the electoral rules was the PSOE. Habbit 12:09, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Nobody PSOE's member was the 13th march 2004 night in Genova street. The spanish PP's government was lying a lot of time when the muslim attack was the main way since 12th march. That part of the article is not neutral. There are alot of Spanish people who don't think like you. 84.123.85.153 00:46, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Murcianese?

What is this "Murcianese" that anons keep adding? //Dirak 12:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

The Murcianese is a language which a lot of people have spoken in Murcia's region along the centuries although people don't speak this language in the streets nowadays. However a lot of people try to use this language in streets and in schools because Murcia have a strong personality. You can see http://www.llenguamaere.com (in Murcianese) and http://www.jarique.com (in Spanish)