Talk:Southern literature

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Southern literature has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

Contents 1 Naming... 2 Gone With The Wind -- Where is it? 3 Disputes -- March 30th, 2006 4 Good Quote Regarding "Southern Verbal Artistry" 5 Thomas Wolfe unmentioned

[edit] Naming...

Shouldn't this page be called Southern-American literature rather than simply Southern literature? --205.188.117.6 05:39, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

No. To call it that would be inaccurate because 1) That implies literature from South America and 2) Southern literature is what the genre is called by all acceptable academic and literary sources. Best, --Alabamaboy 16:35, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

It seems inaccurate because most academics would call literature from South America South American literature (with further subsets by country), Central American literature, Mexican literature, etc. I mean, being an American from the Southern USA (North Carolina) I understand it perfectly, but it still seems a bit too ethnocentric because this "title" could apply to the Southern part of just about any country -- yet it is reserved exclusively for the American South? Why? This topic would perhaps be better called Literature of the American South or Literature of the Southern United States but these may both be a bit unwieldy, especially for a Wikipedia page title. Therefore, it seems best to shoot for Southern-American literature. --205.188.117.6 07:26, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

BTW -- I just saw (on the Southern literature page) that the Southern dialect is found on the page entitled "Southern American English" -- this seems to reiterate my point that this page should be promptly re-named Southern-American literature (plus or minus the hyphen) to make it clearer for readers and especially to help avoid confusion with international readers who don't know Charleston from Kalamazoo. --205.188.117.6 07:41, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

The problem with that is no one uses that term in either academic or popular discussion. For example, search for "southern american literature" on google shows 639 links while "southern literature" has 580,000. To change this article's title would be to confuse readers.--Alabamaboy 15:13, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I recall reading some newspapers from the 1860s and coming across the votes of Congressman called "South Americans," which seemed a very strange group indeed in Washington in 1858. (They were American Party members from the South). Wiki is not allowed to do original research and not allowed to coin new names for terms that are solidly established in tens of thousands of books and articles--not to mention 580,000 web links. Our job is to help users not confuse them, and not impose our own POV. Rjensen 15:22, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gone With The Wind -- Where is it?

Where is the Pulitzer Prize winning and probably most famous southern novel Gone with the wind by Margaret Mitchell??

[edit] Disputes -- March 30th, 2006

Hello -- please leave the alternate names and other edits (besides the capitalizations as I said...) even though they aren't as prevalent as "Southern literature." Even though they aren't PREVALENT, it doesn't mean that they don't exist in other countries studying American literature. This is more for foreigners rather than Americans; heck, even 95% of Americans would be confused if you simply stated out of the blue: "I read Southern literature." Many would ask: " 'Southern' where!?" Not everyone is an 'expert,' not by a long-shot. You can't continue being Americentric (even though you and I are obviously from The South...I'm from North Carolina; I assume you're from 'Bama); you just have to be more SPECIFIC in regionalistic articles such as these.

Imagine if you're sitting in an 'Intro To Amer. Lit.' classroom (speaking English) in India, England, Australia, Canada, etc., and some one in the class says, "I LOVE Southern literature!" Everyone would be like: " 'Southern' where...'Southern' what?" JUST like most Americans. We have to be clear in the naming scheme and also cater to NON-AMERICAN users of Wikipedia that view this article: like I wrote before, please try to avoid being Americentric. Thank you -- 205.188.117.6 15:49, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it hurts anything to leave the alternative names in there. Anything that might make the article more understandable to someone unfamiliar with the subject is a step in the right direction. This might be taken too far (and I think going any further with it might; three alternative names is enough), but as it stands now, it is acceptable to me. I don't like the term "Southern-American"; I think the hyphen ought to be removed. Believe it or not, hyphenating terms like this is a major point of contention for some folks. For what it's worth, I think "Southern" should definitely be capitalized. "The South" is a significant social and geographic division; "Southern" is a definable cultural identity. Also, why don't you register? Your IP keeps changing, and it's hard to keep track of you, or to talk to someone who doesn't have a name. —LonelyPilgrim 16:19, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I would be willing to have one of the alternate names as long as it is "Literature of the American South" (and I have edited the page along these lines). To list out every possible variant of the name is asinine. As per the previous discussion on this talk page, there are only 600 google hits for "Southern-American literature" while "Literature of the Southern United States" gets 32 hits! To list out names that no one uses is original research and not permitted at Wikipedia. Otherwise, if you want to capitalize Southern go for it. To me, capitalizing southern is silly because in that case you are violating basic rules of grammar. But if you feel that strongly about it, I won't argue. Best,--Alabamaboy 16:23, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Silly, eh? ;-) Can you cite these "basic rules of grammar"? This is one that not everyone agrees upon. For every rule there are exceptions, and the real test is usage. The prevalant usage since long before the Civil War has been to capitalize. —LonelyPilgrim 16:38, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Oy. I just read the talk for your most recent IP. You really ought to register. Being an AOL IP, it seems everybody and his evil grandmother has used it to vandalize. We wouldn't want you to be identified with that. Besides, you seem to be a good editor, and it would be nice for you to have your good work in your own name, and for us to see what other kinds of things you like to edit. —LonelyPilgrim 16:52, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, I stand corrected. According to the Chicago Manual of Style, 15th edition, section 8.50, the South as a stand alone word would be capitalized (always knew that). However, southern can either be capitalized or not while Southerner always is. My bad on that mistake. I also agree with the previous statement--register! AOL connections are looked on with suspicion around here. Best, --Alabamaboy 17:02, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but I will NEVER register, even though I always do what I think are "good" or constructive edits and never vandalize here on Wikipedia; for me, on the Internet, it's all about anonymity.

I would consider putting those 2 other names back in but I'm not going to worry about it too much anymore -- I just want people to understand how nebulous and downright 'basic' it is to call a whole subset of one certain national literature Southern literature when this could refer to the writing of any southern region of any large country. I am in academia (I'm a grad student studying American Literature with some extra time on my hands, hence the edits) and I'm a Southerner, but still I want this page to be less vague even though Southern literature is technically correct (unfortunately, only a very small percentage of the world's population would know this because it's too specialized -- thus the explication I think is needed). I suppose that the map on the immediate right at the top of the page does make it more understandable for someone who knows nothing about it because they'll certainly recognize a basic map of the USA along with the red/pink shaded area(s) and, if they have half-a-brain, they'll put two-and-two together and understand. Thanks for the discussion. --64.12.116.67 04:13, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Good Quote Regarding "Southern Verbal Artistry"

“Southerners have often been characterized as particularly artistic with language, skilled in speechmaking, preaching, storytelling, and writing. Many of the most canonical figures in American literature are or were from the South” (from English in the Southern United States, Nagle & Sanders, 2003, p. 196, ISBN 0-521-82264-5). --205.188.117.6 14:57, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thomas Wolfe unmentioned

Considering his importance Thomas Wolfe deserves a mention. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.231.153.210 (talk • contribs) 06:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC).