Talk:South India

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[edit] Image of the saree clad woman

I dont think that the woman is actually wearing a saree. I believe she is wearing a traditional Kerala dress called setum mundum that just looks like a saree, but is infact two pieces of cloth. Anybody have any idea? -- thunderboltz^{a.k.a.Deepu_Joseph |TALK} 05:13, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

That IS a sari.... it looks like a standard 9-ft cloth wrap + black blouse :) --h y dka t 06:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

That definitely looks like a saree Sumanthk 07:18, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

On the Sari page, the same image is captioned as being a Mundum, and the colour scheme suggests the same. However, the pleats down the front suggest the normal sari. Don't know if this input helps. We are surprisingly short of images featuring saris! That situation ought to be remedied. ImpuMozhi 14:05, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I've dropped a note to kjrajesh (talk • contribs), the uploader of the image. ImpuMozhi, the colour scheme is one that is unique to Kerala, and there are many kinds of dresses that use this pattern (white/golden white colour with golden+coloured thread designs along the edges). So it cant gaurentee anything.
Discerning the garment in this case is difficult because the lady is holding the end of the saree forward. -- thunderboltz^{a.k.a.Deepu_Joseph |TALK} 06:21, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

That looks like a Neeryathu saree. Not the two piece setum mundum. Hope this clears the doubt. Jisha C J

Strictly speaking as Jisha said it is traditional Kasavu Neriyathu. I have doubts whether we can call it traditional Kerala Saree. There is a nice painting by Ravi Varma on this. I couldn't find it. Any way I have concerns about the Mundu image too(Image:Kerala traditional mundu.JPG) in Kerala page. The image not upto the standards of the articles, it seems. The focus is on the young man rather than to his mundu. It would be great if someone could upload a better picture. Manjithkaini 13:53, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

The saree shown in the image is a form of saree. I have seen several books on the saree which include the kind of saree shown in the picture as a style of saree or a type of saree. The mundum neryathu is different because it is in two pieces but it is regarded by saree scholars as a variation of saree and as the remnant of the ancient saree. there is no doubt that all the scholarly works on saree states the mundum neryathu as one of the several forms of the saree.

It is interesting how several people claim to be NPOV and yet raise questions and do not hesitate to delete material just because an idea does not fit their opinion. They do not even bother to refer to works by anthropologists or ethnographers.

here are some books that document the kerala two piece mundum neryathu/ kasavu mundu/ kasavu neriyathu and the neryathu saree as one of the several numerous forms of the saree. Please do try to read them.

The Sari (2004) Mukulika Banerjee and Daniel Miller. New Delhi, Roli Books, (2004) ISBN 81-7436-280-0. (this one gives brilliant pictures of the mundum neryathum or kasavu mundu as one of the elegant forms of the saree in one of the introductory pages).

Boulanger, Chantal; (1997) Saris: An Illustrated Guide to the Indian Art of Draping, Shakti Press International, New York.

Robin klein 03:05, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Saree

The photo uploaded by me (Saree) is actually Setu Mundu. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kjrajesh (talk • contribs).

Asked my mom... who saw it for a fraction of a second before confirming it is a two-piece. When I asked her how she could tell, she vaguely said look at the folds :( --h y dka t 20:52, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kerala Emphasis

I feel that the South India article was written with a Keralite POV. It would seem much better if all the four states are well-represented.

Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to…) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. -- thunderboltz^{a.k.a.Deepu Joseph |TALK}14:05, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dravidian-Uralic connection

I had deleted the reference to a connection between Dravidian and Uralic languages, but this was reverted by AreJay; I guess I should have explained the deletion here. I mean the following passage:

"A relationship of the Dravidian language family to other linguistic families has not been established. However, in the presence of many hypotheses, a relationship with Uralic languages appears to most plausible."

This is supported by a reference to Encyclopaedia Britannica. However, the claim is just bizarre: no specialist in Uralic languages has ever supported such an idea. I am not aware of any publication in a peer reviewed journal of the field that would advocate such a connection. I am myself a Uralic comparative linguist by profession, and in fact I have never even heard any colleague mention such an idea seriously; the idea of a Uralic-Dravidian connection is a joke on par with Uralic-Quechua or Uralic-Egyptian. Hence I will delete the reference. --AAikio 15:47, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Madras, Madrasis

During the British rule, much of South India was organised into the Madras Presidency, and the entire region came to be called Madras.....

This assertion is a half truth. During British rule, much of South India was also NOT under Madras Presidency. Madras Presidency comprised of the present present Tamil Nadu, half of Kerala, a few districts in Karnataka and only the south most and coastal districts of Andhra Pradesh. This is not 'much of South India'. It is about half of South India. ref: 1,2, 3,4

And the term 'Madras' referred only to the Madras Presidency. Mysore was called Mysore, Nizam's dominions were called Hyderabad, Bombay Presidency controlled portions of Karnataka was called Bombay or even Dharwad and so on.

To sum up,

Roughly 70-80% of Karnataka was never under Madras Presidency and was never called so.
Half of Kerala(Travancore) was never under Madras Presidency and was never called so.
Except south most and coastal districts, roughly 70-80% of Andhra Pradesh was never under Madras Presidency and was never called so.

Stop giving a Tamil, Tamil Nadu, Tamil People twist to every article associated with South India

and its inhabitants Madrasis

Yes. Before the reorganisation of states, only those inhabitants of Madras Presidency were called 'Madrasis'. A person living in say, Dharwad or Mysore or Gulbarga or Hyderabad or Travancore was NOT referred to as 'Madrasi'.

After the reorg of states, it has just remained a remnant of our colonial vocab, and that too only a part of North Indian's vocabulary. It never was and IS not a part of any south indian's vocab. No 'Madarasi'(Even those who lived in Madras Presidency or even present day Madras, ever addressed himself or his co-inhabitants using that term.

Furthermore, 'Madrasi' is at best a colloquial term and at worst a slight. It has derogatory and even racist connotations depending on the context. Hardly encyclopaedic. Establish the context first and the its encyclopaedic nature before writing about it.

[edit] Karnataka Politics

"Anti-Hindi and anti-Tamil movements bore to the front of Karnataka politics in the 1960s and 1970s.[20] The Kaveri water dispute with Tamil Nadu holds an important place in the politics of the state."

Who wrote these lines? When has anti hindi or anti tamil movements been a part of karnataka politics? It is high time that Kongas here stopped this virulent attitude against all Kannada related articles. The article cites that Janaki Nair article as reference, but that reference doesnt say anything about anti hindi or anti tamil movements 'bearing the front'(what the hell does that mean anyway) of Ktaka politics in 60s and 70s or at any other time... and on the other hand, the editors have very cleverly sugarcoated all references to ant-'any language but tamil' in the portion that deals with TN politics.

am removing it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Balnanmaga (talk • contribs) 02:13, 10 August 2006(UTC).

its been cited... plz dont remove cited text... you may change it if you feel it is too POV (see WP:NPOV) or confute the citation then remove the text. --h y dka t 07:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This article is too long

This page is 49 kilobytes long. This may be longer than is preferable; see article size. Mattisse (talk) 11:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Its below 6000 words in the main body... which is recommended. The size is mainly because of the pictures in it. Even then it is less than 50Kb. But whether this(size) is preferable or not is a moot point. Nevertheless it is within established guidlines under Wikipedia:article size. -h y dka t 15:11, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I was just repeating the warning Wikipedia gives when you edit the page. I guess some browsers like Firefox (according to the warning) have trouble with articles of this size. I do think there are too many pictures, but that is a personal preference thing. Mattisse (talk) 15:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

P.S. Why does it say down at the bottom of this talk page Categories: India articles without a WikiProject in red? Just curious. Mattisse (talk) 15:34, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Everybody thinks they are too many pictures in this article :). As for the category, beats me! Maybe it doesn't belong to a specialised category under Wikipedia:WikiProject India --h y dka t 15:48, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lakshadweep

Should be included as part of South India ?64.201.162.1

No, the islands are not part of the geographic region of South India.-- thund e rboltz^(Deepu) 15:03, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] removed galleries...

I've replaced the galleries with indiv images at location closest to subject matter discussing them... hope its ok. Only the Chalukya territories map is missing. The gallery is here:

The Chola, Chera and Pandyas empires.

Chalukya Territories during Pulakesin II c. 640 C.E.

Extent of Chola empire c. 1014 CE

Madras Presidency, 1909

--h y dka t 17:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

the flora and fauna ones: missing from main page: jog falls and tamil farm....

A small stream in Nelliampathi mountains, Kerala.

Dense vegetation in Silent Valley National Park, Kerala

Jog Falls, Karnataka, Highest waterfalls in Asia

A farm in Tamil Nadu

--h y dka t 17:10, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

my only excuse this time is WP:BOLD...more images removed than retained... he,he,he :)

Purandara Dasa, known as the father(Pitamaha) of Carnatic music.	Tyagaraja, one of the trinity of Carnatic music	A South Indian woman wearing Saree	A South Indian Shaivite sadhu
The tradition of serving meals on plantain leaves endures, especially at formal events	Elephants standing in front of Vadakkunathan during Thrissur pooram festival, Kerala.	Kuda Mattam during Thrissur pooram festival in Kerala.

Detail of the main vimanam (tower) of the Brihadisvara Temple	Mallikarjuna Temple at Pattadakal, Karnataka, Vesara style	Jain monolith of Gomatheswara in Karnataka dating from 978-993 AD.	Hoysala architecture, Chennakesava temple, Belur, Karnataka
The Mattancherry Palace - temple courtyard in Kerala	The Charminar in Hyderabad	Knanaya- Jewish Nasrani temple in Kottayam, in Kerala containing ancient Mar Thoma cross and Sassanid Pahlavi inscriptions	Lotus Palace, built in secular style, Hampi, Karnataka

Good move, hydkat. Galleries arent generally approved by the community. More images can be provided in the respective sub pages.-- thund e rboltz^(Deepu) 06:16, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Good move there hydkat. I hated those galleries and wanted to get rid of them but I didn't want to play with fire and end up getting burned in the process. AreJay 14:21, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] removed agriculture

I removed the section below. We already have agriculture mention in the economy section. how about having a agriculture subsection?

[edit] Agriculture

Agriculture in South India is largely dependant on north east monsoon and southwest monsoon and on rivers originating in the western ghats. A wide variety of crops are grown here.

In Tamilnadu, Important harvesting crops are paddy, sugarcane, groundnet, cotton, banana, tapioca, turmeric and coconut. Erode and Coimbatore districts of Tamilnadu play a vital role in producing turmeric. The well known Thanjore delta is largest paddy producing area in south india. Erode, Coimbatore , Salem , Nammakkal and karur districts highly producing sugarcane in Tamilnadu

--h y dka t 11:50, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

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