Talk:Snowmobile

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[edit] Unbiased?

Anyone getting a feel that this is a BIASED article? with the enviormental impact about the same size of the ENTIRE ARTICLE, somthing is wrong. Remember, this is a enyclopedia.

The entire article is over 1100 words. The environmental impact section has 268 words. Aside from that, it appears in appropriate in context. Most of the political and legal debate over snowmobiles is based on their environmental impact. -Will Beback 22:16, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
I concur, it doesn't seem disproportionate. -Cyberprog 22:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Engines

In the world of snowmobiles where almost every machine is a two-stroke, it may seem that the four-strokes are going to make them quieter, but this may not be the case. With off-road motorcycles, the "thumpers" (four-strokes) have a reputation for being extremely loud. In a factory condition the four-strokes are generally quieter but if you put a high performance exhaust on both a two and a four stroke, the four will be much louder. Painfully in fact. Many "thumpers" are using aftermarket exhaust to take full advantage of the motor's potential power. It will be interesting to see how this plays out with snowmobiles and jet skis.

Two-Stroke Technologies like Direct-Inject Need to be addressed

The "thumpers" are single cylinder engine's. The four stroke's in snowmobiles are 2 to 4 cylinders.

[edit] Thiokol

If anyone knows anything about Thiokol's business in the snowmobile field (it was, I've read, a huge player for a time in the '70s) then I'd appreciate an addition to that article. Thanks. -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 19:02, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thiokol never made snowmobiles. They made snowcats (or snow cats), which are now usually called "groomers" because most of them are now used to groom the snow on ski slopes or trails or snowmobile trails. Snowmobiles are small one or two person machines with no cockpit, no cabin, and a single track in the back and two skis in the front. Snowcats (or groomers) are big machines with enclosed cabs, driven by two or even four tracks. Do a Web image search with the terms "Thiokol Imp" and another one with "Thiokol Spryte" to see what these tracked vehicles are like. Bombardier also made several models of groomers and multi purpose snowcats (which are now produced by Camoplast, industrial division), along with several other US companies like Tucker, and Swedish companies like Hagglunds. There is plenty of info on them all on the Web once you know under what words to search. Some of these machines are also called logging skidders or just "skidders". We don't have any article yet on snow groomers or multi purpose snowcats yet. Feel like starting one? --AlainV 01:33, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. Frankly, I didn't know the difference between a snowmobile and a snowcat until right now (so I wouldn't be much good about writing said article). The reason I ask is that I just finished writing the Thiokol article, and it's rather unsatisfactory. They started as a chemical company, and later a maker of solid rockets using the chemical. I can't figure out how (or when) they got into the snow equipment business (and equally the skilift business), and I'd love to have the minutes of the boardmeeting when someone said "We've won the contract to build the space shuttle boosters; let's sell the skilift division".  :) -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 01:42, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kegresse tracks?

Try as I might, I can't find any evidence that snowmobile tracks are called "Kegresse tracks" in english. I understand, from Ericd's edit to Caterpillar track, the purported difference between the two types - but I can't find anyone calling snowmobile tracks Kegresse. Consequently I move that the english phrase "Kegresse tracks" pertains only to those half-tracks made by Adolphe Kegresse and, regardless of usage in other languages, "caterpillar track" is the expression in currency for both types of track. If someone can cite english langage sources that do use Kegresse in the more general sense, I'm more than willing to read 'em. -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 01:48, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I have no idea, that's why I unpiped the link. -Willmcw 01:56, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

I read a lot over the years on Joseph-Armand Bombardier's patents for snowmobile components and the track system in particular and remember no reference to Kegresse. I checked again on the Bombardier museum site (available in French as well as in English http://www.fjab.qc.ca/entrance.htm) and there was no mention of Kegresse. --AlainV 04:37, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Let's pull it then. Is caterpillar track correct? That's what was there before. Maybe we should just say they run on a "rubber track" and leave it at that. -Willmcw 04:43, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)
Here's this citation that I found which buttreses the use of the term. http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/vehicles/trrv/vehhalf.htm
American half tracks used a development of the French designed Kegresse tracks which were like large rubber bands. The vehicles also had driven front axles. Most of these produced, initially by the White Company and later by others, were armoured. During World War 2 many were supplied to Britain.
That reference obviously dates the invention to some time before 1940, and the photo shows something that is similar in concept to a snowmowbile track. In light of this, I suggest we leave it. The red link may encourage someone to write an article on the mysterious Kegresse tracks. (Perhaps the French Wikipedia already has one). However, I'll move the link down. Cheers, -Willmcw 06:42, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Yamaha snowmobile lineup

Just wanted to inform the person that keeps editing the text under "Enviromental Impact" that NOT all of Yamaha's sleds are 4-strokes. Yamaha is still producing the SXVenom, SXVenom ER, SXViper Mountain, and the Venture 600. Yamaha hasn't updated these models the last few years, but they're still part of the official lineup for 2006.

Check it out for yourself.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/lifestylehome/home.aspx

[edit] Snowtrucks

Should the military snowtrucks also be mentioned under other vehicles? I'm not sure if there's an article about them only already, so that's why I'm asking. See these pictures if you dont know what I mean (they're from the Finnish Defence Forces, so the pics may be used for free as long as the source is mentioned):

[edit] NPOV?

From the subculture section: "They are very passionate about their sport and are very offended when ingnorant people refer to snowmobiling as nothing more than " just sitting there pushing a throttle." The kind of riding these enthusiests do requires an immense amount of strength and effort (it is a huge amount of work throwing around a 500 pound machine, as most can imagine)."

I smell a bit of vendetta, there, with the classification of people under a certain school of thought (regardless of how misconceived) as being "ingnorant [sic]." However, I'm not quite sure of how to clean it up and make it neutral without disposing of a big chunk of the section, since it seems to be such a response to an unspoken argument. So, if some other kind soul out there with a little more finesse than me could take care of it, that'd rock. --Matt S. 04:33, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

It's been over a month, so I decided to just go ahead and take care of it myself. I hope the changes are acceptable. --Matt S. 23:25, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Timing of Grass Drags....

Wikipedia has..."Grass drags are held every spring, with the largest event being Hay Days in Lino Lakes, Minnesota. Hay Days has always been the first weekend following the Labor Day Holiday. The World Championship Watercross or Snowmobile skipping races are held in Grantsburg, Wisconsin in July." It used to say "summer" but was edited by a "vandal" to spring but then I checked up before I planned to revert and the article also says that Hay Days is the first weekend after Labour Day and Wikipedia has Labor day as first Monday in September. To me thats late summer - practically autumn (fall) and not really summer (and certainly not spring). Checked a few web sites and it seems to be Fall (otherwise known as Autumn to the rest of the known universe/world) Ttiotsw 23:19, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

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