Talk:Smallville (TV series)

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The article Smallville Places (Season 5) was nominated for deletion. The debate was closed on 6 November 2006 with a consensus to merge the content into Smallville (TV series). If the merger is not completed promptly, Smallville Places (Season 5) might be re-nominated for deletion.

To discuss the merger, please use this talk page.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Smallville (TV series) article.
TV This article is within the scope of WikiProject Television, which collaborates on television programs and related subjects on Wikipedia.

Talk previous to or occuring on September 26 2006


Contents

[edit] Archived Lengthy Talk Page

This talk page has grown overlong and therefore been archived. You can find the archive page in the asppropriate side box. - -- Wizardry Dragon (Talk to Me) (Support Neutrality on Wikipedia) 21:25, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Bias

There is trouble with links of the characters of dis series. Some, like Luthor, Lionel, Cloe and the characters created for the show are O.K. Some others like Clark, Lana's and Clark's parents link to COMIC BOOK pages.

Please sign your comments. As for the character pages, if they go to the comics it's because that is the place they originated from, and the Smallville portion is mentioned there. If they go to their own page it's because they are not part of the comic book lore. Bignole 23:03, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cast

Ok, I think we need to all sit down and figure out what we are going to consider is what in the cast list. This can get confusing, especially when they decide to keep someone, or drop them. Jenson was supposed to be a regular cast member, and even was in the credits, but wasn't in every episode and was dropped at the end of the season. How many episodes should we require to list their status as (Season ...) or (Recurring Season...)? I think if they reach a certain number of episodes they should be upgraded. I mean, Lois started as a recurring character but since she gets the same amount of episodes every season, and has been consistant since season 4, it seems right to just list her status as (Season 4 - present). Bignole 22:38, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


I think it would be good to note that Shawn Ashmore appeared in Season 1 episode 12 as well as season 3 episode 9 as the character Eric Summers. Shawn is the twin brother of Aaron Ashmore who is playing the character Jimmy Olson. If it doesnt fall into a regular character catagory then it would be good to add a trivia heading to note this info. M8gen

I know that only 2 appearances isn't a regular cast member. Sarah Carter (Alicia) was in 3 episodes but she wasn't a regular, nor a recurring character. She was merely a special guest. What I'm trying to find out is what should establish a recurring role from a regular role. Bignole 04:13, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
i assumed he was since Aaron has only appeared in 1 episode so far that has aired and is listed on IMDB as season 6 ep1 and season 6 ep 3(which has not aired yet)M8gen
Aaron is going to be in more than just 2 episodes, he was just put up on the list a little two early. Bignole 11:12, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
makes sense to wait then. any thoughts on adding a trivia section? the twin thing made me so curious and i researched it and it wasnt til i looked at images that i noticed the twin factor. i thought i had imagined seeing aarons face in the show already. M8gen

[edit] Lost (TV series)

I think we could start taking a page out of their book. Bignole 02:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bio (Smallville)

Howcome lex gets his own "Lex Luthor (Smallville)" page and Clark and Lana don't? I think it's safe to say the 3 are in the same situation and therefore should be treated the same way in wikipedia... aren't they?--201 03:44, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

This has already been brought up. I don't know why Lex has his own page. I'll rectify that accordingly and place a "merge" tag on the smallville page, because it shouldn't be there. Bignole 03:46, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


Trivia sections are usually discouraged. It's more advisable to include a note in the test where he is mentioned. Also, even if it's superficial, it could be good to just have a reference to where someone else mentions that little fact. I mean it's obvious that they are twins, but sometimes it's good to have all your ducks in a row, and currently the main article is plagued with little citations. Bignole 11:57, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
you are replying to my post about the twins, but where did my post go? nevermind, its above in a differenct areaM8gen

Oh, ok. I guess I'm confused. Cloe and Lionel have bios, but they are secondary... Lana, Lois and Clark are main, but don't have bios. It's weird, but they do have thier own page covering all versions of the character... on the other hand, the smallville versions are so different, that as the Lex (Smallville) article proved, they could have their own articles. They are based on DC Comics characters that have full articles (missing much Smallville info, though), but they have had biguer roles than those of Cloe and Lionel.

Although you're right maybe it is getting too trivial. If wikipedia has clear policies against trivia, we souldn't be breaking them.--201 18:30, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Side character boxes

I noticed some articles like Sydney Bristow, Jack Bauer, Goku and even Lex Luthor (Smallville) have those, I think it'd be neat for the Smallville bios (which ever you choose to have) to have similar devices. Wikipedia seems to be following that format with most tv characters. I've been told to design one myself, but I'm not a systems engeneer. Another option is using the Lex (Smallville) box and simply change the data. In my experience that works too. I hope you find this observation useful. Thanks--201 18:41, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

What exactly are you asking? Bignole 19:01, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

User:201 is a confirmed sockpuppet of a blocked user. CovenantD 23:26, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merging with Smallville (comic)

I went to Smallville (comic) and it stated at the top there was a debate about whether it should be merged with this one. Frankly I think that's a bad idea, because they are completely different. One is a TV SHOW the other is a fictional place within comics. Mrja84 01:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

The reasoning was "it's all about the show", which is false. So, no the page isn't going to be merged. I don't think anyone would be able to merge it really, it's two separate mediums. This page needs some work, but it is going to stay right here. Bignole 01:13, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge from Smallville High School

The school article is a mere stub that doesn't have enough unique info to justify a separate article.

  • Support CovenantD 04:09, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Comments:

  • I don't even think it needs to be "merge", just deleted. The information is kind of already on the page, if there's nothing more to it that can be done it probably just needs to be deleted outright. Bignole 04:24, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
  • That works also. CovenantD 04:37, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge from Talon (Smallville)

Not enough unique info to justify an article. CovenantD 01:06, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree - The Talon is a location on the Smallville TV series, one that isn't even heavily used in the latest episodes of Smallville. It should be merged with Smallville or done with alltogether
I agree - lacks sufficient notability anyway Wisdom89 01:48, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
I think my comments about the previous section kind of apply here. There's no reason to corrupt a page with needless fan information, especially when it already has enough work finding sources to back up the "out-of-universe" stuff. Bignole 03:39, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
I was just going to turn them into redirects rather than go through the bother of an AfD and wanted to get some comments before going ahead. CovenantD 17:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Merge, then go ahead and create redirects. - Ivan
Strong agree. The Talon isn't notable enough to deserve its own article, anyway. It should be merged into a separate section of Smallville (TV series). --silverBULLET(x3) 20:19, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Disagree - The Talon is a separate place from the rest of Smallville. How are you going to put the history of the talon in Smallville (TV series) without making it seem out of place?
What about maybe a section on Smallville locations or turning the talon article into a bigger thing about the other locations on smallville. Right now I'm too lazy but some devoted fan? The kent farm, metropolis, the daily planet, smallville high, lex luthor's mansion, the fortress of solitude?... maybe lexcorp. The entire show practically takes place in these few locations and the show does develop a small and slightly unique history for each one. Or it could just be left to the smallville wiki.--Torourkeus 04:09, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I've performed the merge. Jkelly 23:41, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

some one edit it and remove some stuff (Important) --Sharif Aly Fouad 20:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Use of images

I understand that only a liimited number of copyright images can be managed under fair-use on wikipedia, but is having the image of the original actress of Martha really notable in the universal context of this page. Of course we can't use a heap of pictures, but surely an image of Clark would serve a better purpose in this situation!? Smallvillefan 15:06, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

The image of the "original" Martha is used in context with the "original" PILOT, which didn't use Annette O'Toole. How would showing Clark benefit a sentence that says "Martha was recast after the original Pilot was filmed for unknown reasons; Cynthia ... was originall cast." ? The image is meant to prove she was in the pilot. Clark was never recast. Bignole 16:16, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Uh maybe you did not understand what I was trying to say, my point is that the page is 31 kilobytes long right? Yet we devote an entire image to two lines of text (After the pilot for the series had already been finished, due to unknown reasons, Cynthia Ettinger was replaced with Annette O'Toole (who played Lana Lang in 1983's Superman III), and Cynthia's parts were reshot with Annette O'Toole.) I just don't see how it is important enough to warrant an image? As it clearly says the parts were re-shot, so what significance does it hold now? It is merely a piece of trivia that is aplicable to the pilot only, so why should there be an image of it on the main Smallville page? Maybe the pilot episode page, but not here! Surely early promo posters/cast image or something would be way more beneficial to the average reader? Sorry, but when I looked at the page I just thought wtf does this have to do with anything? I just think it is odd that the ONLY image used throughout the entire page (excluding top/dvd covers) is of that...? Smallvillefan2 04:02, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't recall the text having another source to verify Cynthia's presence, thus the image is our only proof of this happening. That is why the image is there, because it acts as a source for the text, because that particular bit of information needs citation; and apparently that was all the original editor could find to prove it, minus some IMDb information. If you can find a valid, reliable source to take the place of the image then ok. IMDb is not one of those sources either, just in case your first choice is that website. Bignole 04:17, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah ok, I did not know about that. I'll have a look around for an article or something then. Smallvillefan2 04:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
  • kryptonsite has an article about the character that says Annette came into the part of Martha to replace Cynthia Ettinger, who played her in the Smallville pilot....I guess something like that is appropriate, though it does not mention the re-shooting... Smallvillefan2 05:02, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
My problem is that, even though Kryptonsite is usually right and one of our sources for the show, it's only barely mentioned in the article and could be easily questioned. See if there is anything else, otherwise we may have to just use that. Bignole 11:53, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestions for re-writing the article

Looking at Lost and a number of other pages, I would like to suggest we overhaul this page:

    • Re-write the introduction, to give a nice overview of the whole article, as oppose to focusing so much on current events (The CW) and ratings.
    • Re-write the History of the show section into something similar (does not have to be exact) to Lost_(TV_series)#Production, meaning, we merge the gallery/production into here.
    • On the gallery, I think it is very fortunant to have all these photos, but maybe we should chose one or two for the proposed Production section, and have the rest on the Wiki commons.
    • De-list/de-table the Cast and characters section, and re-write into a nice couple of paragraphs, as well as merging Clark's powers, unless we can massively expand the section, but as it is, it is just a very short list. Either merge or re-write Appearances by other DC Comics characters as well.
    • Re-write Soundtracks into a Music section with a lot more details, and split the tracks/CDs off into their own soundtrack page.
    • Clean up External links, there really shouldn't be two sub-headings for such a section.
    • Clean-up References, there must be a universal system used here, not numerous variations.
    • Merge Seasons into Series history, using Main article: for each area.
    • Re-write DVD releases into something like Lost_(TV_series)#DVD_releases.
    • Re-write Awards and nominations into an Impact/Reception section, dealing with notable awards and nominations, success, ratings, critcal reaction etc.
    • Write a good section on Allusions, and having a Main article: link as well. Section would just give an overview of the use of allusions in the series.

So please discuss these ideas, so we can work on getting this article to (hopefully) the same level as Lost and some of the other feature articles. Reelusa89 13:27, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Most of it sounds good, though I would look at other Featured Articles (television series) for other comparisons as well, because not all are done the same way. I'm not sure what you are referring to with the "References" section, I'm not aware of different variations of that section. We do not need to create all these "main article" pages for the sections. There doesn't need to be a main article page for "Series History", and there are already links at the bottom for the Seasonal Pages. There isn't a "Main Article" for the "Allusions" page anymore, because it was determined to be all Original Research. I like the idea behind a small paragraph detailing how they use the "allusions", but it would require quite a few sources. I was thinking of overhauling all the "by season overviews" and replace them with interviews with Gough and Millar about their intended direction of each season (requiring many sources for interviews before and after each season). I think that would better describe those sections. The External links section should be trimmed down to the most popular "further reading" sites, and not every other site imaginable. We don't need a "soundtrack" main article. The West Wing (TV series) has a nice "Critical Reaction" section, sort of like what you are talking about, at least from what I gathered. Arrested Development also has some of the same tables and lists that this articles has. I think you have a lot of good ideas for improving this article, but I also think that we don't need to revamp the entire page to look like LOST, when some sections are already designed fine, they just need expansion. The biggest problem with this article is that it lacks A LOT of sources. 13:44, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Wow, that was a quick reply :) Hi Bignole. Firstly, I didn't mean to totally base a lot of it on Lost, I just used it to gather a lot of ideas, and sure, we need to look at all the other feature TV articles. About the Allusions page, I didn't know it had been deleted, nonetheless, we should still create a section which talks about the creator's intentions, and common themes and so on (and yes, keeping out any original research). With the References, what I meant is the actual external link and description/title differ, for example, some spell out the full html, whereas others use the actual link as the title page, and others don't actually list the proper title, rather a description (eg. Freak of the Week criticism (3).). About Series history, I just don't see the point of having a seperate section to list the sub-articles for each season, when they could be linked under their own section in Series history. I love your idea for the seasons section, with writing in the intentions of the creators, as this would eliminate a lot of original research/opinion...on that, maybe the seasonal success/criticism (freak of the week etc) could be moved to the proposed Impact/Reception. And yeah, the The_West_Wing_(TV_series)#Critical_reactions is pretty much what I was thinking about. Fair-enough about the soundtrack main pages as well. My only problem with a lot of lists/tables is that (from what I have gathered) they are not well received by FAC reviewers, and where possible it should be text, and I agree we should'nt look too much at the Lost page, but I think their Lost_(TV_series)#DVD_releases section is very good. ThanksReelusa89 14:08, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
The "References" section is a section that catelogs all the in-text citations (all the 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5s you see within the text), that isn't the same as those "external links" that are just going to websites. I'm still not following what you mean for the "format" of the Season sections. Right now they ARE under the "Series History" section, they are just part of "sub sections" to be able to edit easier. If you mean to place them all under 1 subsection, so that if you edit Season 1 you have the option to edit Season 6 in the same block, then ok...that would be fine. It will take some work to find interviews with Gough and Millar about each Season, seeing as this is Season 6 currently. The LOST DVD section also has more information than just DVD releases. Right now that is all we have, so that is why it is in table format instead of a paragraph format. The "Chloe's Chronicles" and such stuff from the top could have an expanded section with the DVD releases. If we could find out more info for the DVDs I think it would be fine to expand them into paragraph format. Bignole 14:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Sorry I guess I'm not really explaining what I mean about the references, but I guess it's not really important. About the seasons, what I mean is instead of having this:
Season 1
'The first season was a tremendous success, but some fans balked at the frequent plot device of a villain (or outcast classmate) deriving their power from Kryptonite exposure and appearing in only one episode, becoming known as the "freak of the week....
We have:
Season 1
Main article: Smallville (season 1)
'The first season was a tremendous success, but some fans balked at the frequent plot device of a villain (or outcast classmate) deriving their power from Kryptonite exposure and appearing in only one episode, becoming known as the "freak of the week....
Thus the Seasons section is not needed after the Series history section...about the DVD section, maybe we could change it to Other media and releases or something, and yeah, include "Chloe's Chronicles" and so on. Maybe it would be a good idea to set up Talk:Smallville (TV series)/draft? Reelusa89 14:39, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I think that is what I thought you meant originally, and that was why I said it seemed redundant to have a template at the bottom that linked to the Seasons, and then link them again up top. But I see where you are going with it. I guess I don't see a real problem with doing it that way for the Seasons. I think a "draft" page would be fine. We could use it to work on one section at a time, so that we don't bog down the page with things we aren't working on yet. Bignole 14:46, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Bignole, I have started messing around on the draft page. I would like to try and merge Cast/Powers/DC characters into one section like The_West_Wing_(TV_series)#Cast. I havent really done anything yet, just kind of swapped things around a bit. What would you think of having the show title card/logo in the top box instead of the 2006 cast, and moving the cast image to the cast section? And yeah I havent really done anything yet, so please (if you want to) just mess around with it. I'm going to go off and look for more sources and info/ideas. Thanks!Resa99 12:18, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
First, I would just put the sections you are going to work on in the "draft" page, and remove the rest. It will become cluttered and you will lose track of what you are doing. As for the picture, the 'cast' picture at the top is the Season 6 cast, and doesn't have everyone from the show. It's just an updated picture. It probably should be replaced by the show's logo, but only a good quality logo. As for the cast, if you have a scanner and one of the DVDs you could scan the back yourself and crop the excess stuff off and use that image for the cast. Bignole 14:13, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I went ahead and found a screen shot of the title credits, so that we have more of an appropriate primary image. Bignole 22:43, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] why do some of the wikified links lead to the smallville wikia?

for dr. claire foster, for instance, along with other links within smallville articles? is this allowed?

Of course it's allowed. They do not have pages on Wikipedia, and there isn't enough information on them to support a page, so we linked to the closest thing. Wikia generally has information that isn't suitable for an encyclopedia, but it had something so we linked it there. Not every DC character has a page here. Bignole 23:15, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Region 4 Season 5

Was Season 5 of Smallville really released on November 23 for region 4, or is that just an error? I mean, it's December 9 now, and I haven't seen it in stores yet. - King Ivan 03:07, 9 December 2006 (UTC) Hmmm...Let me do some checking. Who's in Region 4 so that I can know where to look. Bignole 03:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Region 4 is Australia right? Then I very much doubt it. Season 5 is currently airing on TV. I own 1 to 4, and have yet to see 5 available here. Davey4
Season 5 is so delayed there that it's airing now? I know they have delays in certain things, but over a year? Bignole 16:39, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone have a site where I can verify the release dates of the other Region 4 DVDs? Bignole 18:56, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Smallville is really far behind in Australia because it was taken of the air for a period of about 2 years, and since around the beginning of 2006, Channel 10 has been airing from mid-season 2 all the way to Season 5, being aired right now. But still, I haven't seen Season 5 in stores anywhere around where I live, so I don't think it's out in Region 4 yet. - King Ivan 06:34, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

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