Talk:Sinhalese people

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[edit] [No Title]

User:people who are dying from the terrorist LTTE Attacks.- Wikipedia why can't you weep at little chilrens deaths? Child Soldiers....You know all of them...But why? Sri Lankan's are innocent.Sinhala , Tamil everybody is innocent.This LTTE is so wicked though.....

Wikipedia, being a web site, is technically unable to weep. This is a good thing, because encyclopedias should not be emotional, but rather factual and unbiased. --Joakim Ziegler
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. It attempts to present information in an unbiased and neutral manner. It does not weep, or laugh, or experience any other emotion. If you want to present an emotional personal viewpoint on something, feel free to create a website of your own to do it on. --Bryan Derksen
ok...I will never interfere in yours...thanks..but plz understand the truth....plz cut out the external links on the SRI LANKA PAGE

[edit] [No Title]

I've edited this article as best I can. Thanks to the last editor how added lots of infor but it did sound very, very partisan and anachronistic. I've made it as neutral sounding as I can and cut out some of the more opinionated tracts. Perhaps he/she could include some of their information under 'History of Sri Lanka'? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.156.128.107 (talk • contribs) 03:19, 13 September 2005.

[edit] Origins section

They are generally considered to be a Caucasoid race, but display some traits of their 
Dravidian neighbors (Australoid with strong Caucasoid traits), possibly due to assimilation of 
Tamils.

Anyone got a reference for this? While the Sinhalese language is Indo-Aryan in origin rather than Dravidian, I don't recall reading anything that represents the Sinhala and Tamils as having significantly different ethnic/racial characteristics. Language ≠ race; I know that a northern Indian/Indo-European origin for the Sinhalese people is an element of the beliefs of some Sinhalese nationalists, but I don't know what sort of a scientific basis that belief has. --Clay Collier 00:31, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

The Sinhalese trace their history back to the king Vijaya who colonized Sri Lanka from his fathers kingdom based primarily around Orissa in the north east of India. Anthropologically, in reference to both race and linguistics the Sinhala people are strikingly similar to the Aryans of Northern India. This is why it is popularly believed (by both anthropologists and Nationalists I might add) that the sinhalese are most certainly descended from Aryan races - a self evident scientifically proven fact —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.178.209.53 (talk • contribs) 11:14, 9 November 2005.
There is no scientific basis to this. It's pure speculation based on mythology, and shows a certain degree of ignorance and lack of professionalism. We should only keep the factual information on here. Race is too vague to be classified into "caucasoid" "austroloid" etc. especially when referring to Sri Lankans. And it's ludicrous to claim that Sinhalese are "Aryans" except when mixed with Austroloid-Aryan Tamils. This is borderline racism. Most Sinhalese and Tamils look alike, and the Mahavamsa (a Sinhalese text which first described Sinhalese origins) claims that the settlers from North India took Tamil brides and settled in Sri Lanka with them. They later also mixed with the local Vedda tribal people. Hence, one cannot claim any racial generalizations, and certainly the Sinhalese are more Dravidian than Aryan even going by that outdated classification system. Any non-Dravidian traits can be attributed to mixing with Europeans/Portuguese/Dutch. Thousands of whom settled there along with Arabs. The modern observer would be hard pressed trying to find the difference between a Sinhalese or a Tamil outside of clothing, mannerisms and hairstyle.
-Kumar, November 2005. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.50.61.222 (talk • contribs) 20:19, 12 November 2005.
Stating that Tamils and Sinhalese have similar appearances is akin to stating that a tiger and lion are alike in appearance - same family of cats maybe, but they certainly look different, behave different and have different traits. There is no resemblance whatsoever between the two peoples in appearance. Tamils are darker in complexion and have South Indian features. Sinhalese tend to be fairer in complexion and have features similar to North-eastern Indians. The most commonly accepted view is that Tamils are Dravidian (from South Indian origin - now "Tamil" Nadu) and the Sinhalese are descendants of Aryan origin; and recorded history is clear that the two races occupied the island south of India at times which varied - the Sinhalese first (Vijaya) and then the Tamils (invasion of the Chola Kings). Whilst there can be various disputed versions of the origin of the Sinhalese, there is no dispute whatsoever that the Tamils are Dravidian and came to the island from Tamil Nadu (the true "homeland" of the Tamils)
- Chandri, November 2005 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.21.154.116 (talk • contribs) 04:18, 29 November 2005.
I agree with Chandri —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.83.86.125 (talk • contribs) 12:32, 23 December 2005.

Vijeya came from somewhere and so the Sinhala ..so somewhere else is the " true homeland " of the Sinhala people. It is also true according to the same documented history the grandfather of Vijeya was a lion..who managed to abduct a Princess and fathered Sinhabahu and SinhaSeevali. So let us ask, what kind of history is that documentation ?. Too many wishful thinking...and largely imagination prorated from some point in history. Nevertheless many Tamils got assimilated over the centuries and speak Sinhalese in the present day, helping to swell the Sinhala population. Imagine all the English Speakers are considered English men and English women ?. Unfortunately the real English men and women are very fair skinned...and thus distinguishable from the rest of the English speakers. Fortuantely in Sri-Lanka the Sinhala speaking assimilated Tamil population and the tamil speakers are indistinguishable, thus helping to be identified as Sinhalese.

I hope one day, a true history of Sri-Lanka, will be written by some one or by a committe of historians. It is important to get the facts right that doesn't defy even the simplest logic. ..Srimal Senathira.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.238.227.84 (talk • contribs) 03:50, 3 January 2006.

People discussing here have confused coucasian traits as being white,which is wrong.Holy -- + -- Warrior 16:17, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SInhalese being Caucasoid is a load of nonsense

THe average SInhalese is much darker than the average SOuth Indian, let alone North Indians. All you have to do is look at people in Chennai/ kerala/ Bangalore and look at the average person in Colombo

Ummm. No. Dravidians/Tamils are much darker. Not quite as dark as some Negroes, but darker than Sinhalese people. Lengis 19:15, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

No..may be a very few Sinhalese are anything like fair skinned...but there are as many fair skinned tamils too..but the fact is whether Sinhalese or tamils ..or Sri-lankan or Indian we do not have pure genes...we are all very mixed up. ...but it is true a vast majority of Sinhalese are at least as dark as the Tamils , if not darker. We are all dark people and we are not in a competition with the Europians or other fair skinned homogenious groups. So let us come out of this illusion that Sinhalese are a pure Ariyan people..in fact they are not even Ariyans at all... they are also our Dravidian brothers and sisters, yet speak a language that was derived from Sanskrit which is an Ariyan language. There is nothing wrong in this situation and let us celebrate our Tamil / Sinhala unity and stop looking for more differences to be exploited by the politicians. ..Srimal Senathira —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.238.227.84 (talk • contribs) 04:00, 3 January 2006.

Yes, ofcourse you are correct. I was simply saying that typically Tamils are darker because they are inherently dravidian. It's not a bad thing, on the contrary, it's a good thing considering the massive exposure to sunlight in that region. Sinhalese people are typically lighter though because their ancestors came from north India. I'm all for Tamil and Sinhala integration, and for ethnic conflicts in Sri Lanka to cease. Lengis 08:43, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Dude I have been to Srilanka and 90% of Sinhala population is dark.They of course speak an Aryan language and that doesnt make them to be an aryan(lighter skin).They look more like the aborigines of Australia not like the present day Dravidians.They are the descendents of the aboriginal people of srilanka which was colonized by the Aryan Vijaya.I have also been to south India(Tamil nadu) and there are equally light and dark skined people.50:50.They have mixed with the Aryans for more than 3000 to 4000 years.There is nothing wrong with being dark skin.Just be proud on what you have got.False claims wont make you better. Jane from Australia.

As an Indian whose been to Sri Lanka, let me assure you Sri Lankans look very different from North Indians. There is condsiderably more North Indian influnce in Southern India than there is in sri Lanka.

South India has had considerable interaction with the rest of the country from Vedic, Mauryan to Mughal and British times. Hindu suthern India (including Tamil Nadu) is much more close to North India than isolated Sri Lanka. In fact it became one of the bastions of Vedic and Hindu culture when the North faced several invasions after the collapse of the Mauryan and Guptan Empires.

Indian states such as Orissa and Bengal where SInhalese supposedly came from have a huge tribal and dravidian component in their culture and population. SO the supposedly caucasian origins of Sinhalese are extremely suspect

Shrugs. I'm Sinhalese, and I'm not that dark, nor is anyone in my family. I've been described as yellowish brown, and I agree. Not that it matters. Who cares if Sinhalese are originally caucasian or not? In case you haven't noticed, caucasians colonized India and Sri Lanka durring the 1800s, and early 1900s. If anything else, we DON'T want to be like them. Lengis 23:46, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
  • First of all, the genetic studies that are showin in this article can not be considered conclusive whatsoever. Population genetics is very early in development and these tests (as with tests on other populations around the world) only deal with the Y-Chromosome and paternal line of inheritance. Tests on the X-chromosomes that also come from the paternal line as well as tests on the maternal line have not been carried out. With this in mind, current findings about any population can only be considered specualtive at best. Even if one agrees with the findings and speculations of these tests, much of the area of southern India was shown to have less Eurasian input than the Sinhalese (15%) anyway. Again though, these findings currently don't mean much and reliance should largely be on historical, anthropolgical and archaeological information only. 69.157.109.6 20:04, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

There are sections of the population in Southern India that have more caucasoid characteristics and Indo Aryan heritage than any Sinhalese alive. I still stand by my statement. Talking about percentage is pointless when comparing a region with a population of 250 million+ with an island whose population is one tenth of that figure.

Again, the tests are only on the Y-chromosome and MtDNA only so the figures can't be considered reliable anyway. I dont understrand what the greater population of southern India has to do with the Sinhalese. The 15% figure is the Eurasian input in the Sinhalese and what exactly the percentages represent in terms of MtDNA I dont know (% of the population maybe ?). Many of these studies are inconclusive and have some sort of poltical agenda it seems. The whole basis of the article is trying to see how much Eurasian Y-Chrom./MtDNA "percentages" are in South Asia but no studies have taken place trying to distinguish between other sources or on X-chroms. Regardless of this study, it can not be said the Sinhalese are from the whole same Dravidian origins as Tamils and other south Indian groups as historical info. shows much of Sinhalese origins lie from another area (East India/Bangladesh) and from a different time period that pre-dates Tamil presence on the island. Small population size and island isolation actually increase genetic distinctiveness as has been shown with other genetic studies on other "island" or very exclusive groups. 69.157.121.76 19:16, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm not inferring that Sinhalese are the same as Tamils. I'm just saying that East Indians such as Bengalis and Oriyas are a mixture of Mon Khmer, Dravidian and Indo Aryan characteristics with the first two dominating. South Indians themselves are not pure anything (Aryan or Dravidian) given the migrations in the subcontinent. You can't claim to be more caucasoid when your parent populations in India themselves can't say the same

  • True they are not "pure", but the Dravidian peoples of South and East India are quite distinct in being largely descended from the pre-Caucasoid peoples who were largely of an Australoid type and this has even been demonstrated in the limited genetic studies performed which show their lack in Eurasian input. The source of Eurasian and other inputs in Southern India and on Sri Lanka hasn't been analyzed, however this input probably is not from the "Indo-Aryans" in many, if not most, cases. This is because the invaders of Dravidian culture, who are believed to have arrived before the Indo-Aryans, were themselves Mediterranean caucasoids, yet they still arrived much later than the numerous Veddic/Australoid peoples who had been long settled in India with their own ancient civilization for quite some time. Some of this can be seen here[1]

69.157.121.76 23:21, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

=====mtDNA=====I would just like to point out that mtDNA is mitochondrial DNA, and is passed to offspring through the egg only, and not the sperm; thus, any genetic analysis of mitochondrial DNA represents genetic analysis of the maternal and matrilineal heritage.

[edit] Vijeya and Sinhala by Srimal Senathira:

It is mentioned that Vijeya came from Orissa or somewhere in the North of India. It is also claimed that he brought Sinhala and established the Sinhala Kingdom around 600 BC.

Let us look at this scenario. Vijeya was put on a boat with some 74 other bad guys by Vijeya's father,the King of that land, to drift in the bay of Bengal to their death. There were no women in that boat. For their good fortune, they landed on the shores of Sri-lanka or whatever it was known to be those days. So when the 75 men left their land, the bulk of the Sinhala speakers were left behind in Orissa. So what happened to that main group..while a bunch of convicts established a Sinhala Kingdom ?.

The Mahavamsa Stories were largely imaginations..composed during a very later time with the then known facts extrapolated backward with very little basis. Whatever the dialect that Vijeya spoke..he went to South Indian Kingdom and married a Tamil princess from the Chola dynasty. He brought many Tamils from the brides side to help him rule the country and establish economic life and a military to conquer and destroy the native people, just as the white invaders and convicts did in modern Australia ..and USA. Notwithstanding Vijeya's ethnic origins , he embraced a Tamil princess and his fellow convicts too married other Tamil women. So right from the beginning the invading group have become 50 percent Tamil. Yet we still do not know exactly from where Vijeya came. He might have come not very far from South India. If Vijeya knew there was a Tamil Kingdom and where he could get a bride, his knowledge of South India was pretty good. If Vijeya was capable of travelling to South India , what prevented the South Indians from travelling to Sri-Lanka ?. Because there was no king willing to excile a few bad guys?. Actually the Tamils didn't need any King to excile them, since the Island was in their backyard..and they have not only been travelling to Sri-Lanka, but also settling down in the Island. It was one of those Tamils advised Vijeya to go to the Chola Kingdom and request the King to give his daughter in marriage, thus establishing Vijeya as the Governor of Sri-lanka and not as the King. Rest was a lot of fictional extrapolation by whoever wrote Mahavamsa at a much later date.

Most Sinhalese are obviously have no features of an Aryan / Caucasian features. They are very dark and their features are very much dravidians. If there was any Vjeya genes, it is very diluted in the current Sinhala population. It doesn't matter what the origins and gentic make up, they are human beings just as Tamils and others in that subcontinent.

None of what I said above , take anything away from the current Sinhala population and their culture. It is admirable, Sinhala language and literature flourished during the Sinhala Kingdoms..and reached the current maturity.

Regarding the claim that Vijeya named the Island Tâmraparnî . Thamiraparani is a Thamil word ..and still is the name of a river ..here is an entry from Wikipedia ;

" It is located on the banks of the perennial Thamirabarani River, 75 km from Kanyakumari, the southernmost tip of India. The Thamirabarani contains traces of copper, hence its name (Thamiram means copper in Tamil). Tirunelveli can be easily reached from Madurai (3 hours) or Nagercoil (1 1/2 hours). It is one of the Ayyavazhi populated districts of Tamil Nadu."

It is obvious the word Tâmraparnî is a corruption of Thamiraparani...and the Tamil people who settled in the Island might have come from the region around the Thamiraparani River. In Tamil Thamiram means copper. In what language of Vijeya it also means copper ?. Perhaps in the language of Vijeya's Tamil wife it meant copper...and so it was known before Vijeya landed unexpectedly on the shores of the Thamiraparani Island.

Nevertheless, the facts has to be corrected. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.238.227.84 (talk • contribs) 02:51, 3 January 2006.

[edit] As per Khoikhoi's request I added some things to the article including numerous references

I made some additions with regards to the Sinhalese including population statistics drawn from numerous sources, their history, and anthropological and genetic evidence regarding their origins. The Caucasoid debate is rather pointless as the Sri Lankans as a whole are generally considered a subtype of sorts of a larger Caucasoid 'type' sometimes termed proto-Caucasoid or Australoid, rather than the Caucasoid groups found in the Middle East and Europe. Sri Lankans are similar to their neighbors, the Indians for the most part and the Indo-Aryan element dated to around 500 BCE appears to have been minor except that their language and cultural remnants clearly impacted the region. Much of modern Sri Lankan thinking was shaped by European colonial rule including race theories that have little basis in science and a more nationalistic version of Buddhism (imbued with some Protestant ideas) that has also altered society there. If people have problems with my edits feel free to let me know why and provide some actual evidence please. Thanks. Tombseye 21:36, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] this belongs in the sri lanka article

"Sinhalese society is highly educated in comparison to many developing countries with roughly 95% of the population being literate. In addition, due to a policy of universal healthcare, life expectancy is quite high as well reaching an apogee of 72 years. Female emancipation has led to many changes including greater parity between the sexes and prominent female polticians including former Prime Minister Sirimavo Bandaranaike and Chandrika Kumaratunga. The Sinhalese also have a stable birth rate and a population that has been growing at a much slower pace in comparison to India and other Asian countries."

This applies to the whole island of sri lanka(including all other ethnic groups) and not just to the sinhalese ethnic group. please rewrite this - Suren —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.247.248.251 (talk • contribs) 13:28, 15 January 2006.

The differential for the Sinhalese can't be that different since most indicators show that the Sinhalese dominate the island through sheer numbers. Since the political landscape is also dominated by the Sinhalese for the most part, the discussion on women is also a social issue regarding the Sinhalese. The statistics can be adjusted though as this is still relevant to the Sinhalese socially. Tombseye 22:33, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
universal education & healthcare is for all sri lankans (the way this article is written it implies that only sinhalese have access to universal education & healthcare i.e other races are uneducated & unhealthy),
Female emancipation bit implies that other females are downthrodden
do only the Sinhalese have lower birth rate??
This section should be rewritten to give information about modern sinhalese culture, language & social issues. - Suren
I would like an answer please - Suren
I already agreed that it can be rewritten. Until actual changes can be made one can still state that Sri Lankans in general bear these stats and since the Sinhalese are the majority they most likely correspond to most of them, but with the caveat that the Tamil figures may vary. Tombseye 06:59, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Good

Sinhalese may be socially forward,but are not in good positions because the country is economically VERY backwards.

Sri Lankan people all are very decent and 96% of males and 92% of them are literate. However,English is not widely used in the country as it is suffering too much. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Batzarro (talk • contribs) 13:33, 15 January 2006.

What was the point of that comment? Do you just not like the Sinhalese because you are a Tamil? --Khoikhoi 22:27, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Significant populations source

Can someone quote some sources for sinhalese populations outside Sri Lanka?? -Suren

The sources are listed next to the southeast Asian countries listed. If you have something else, then please add it. Tombseye 06:58, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sinhalese people

Well what I have to say is,. as many have noted in here Mahavamsa is not the colplete true history of the Sinhalese or Sri lanka. It was writed by Mahanama thero many years after even Vijaya arrived & mainly Mahavamsa is the "vansha kathawa" history of the "mahavihara segment". Mahavamsa contains many true facts which we can take into consideration when looking back our history,. But we should always remember that it was writen in the perceptions of Mahanama thero. Sri lanka has been populated far before Vijaya's arrival as well,.. there are archiological evidence from excavations that before 125000 years sri lanka was populated. And there were four major tribes called naaga, yaksha, deva & raksha inhabited the island. These people spoke a common language called "Hela" & they were commonly called "Hela". Thus when these four tribes got to gether - the four hela tribes were called siu - hela which combines to form siihela & later simhala.( siu is the sinhalese word for four ) Thus is the origin of the Sinhalese Not a biase explanation of Vijaya stating the Sinhalese. We can prove this as Vijaya Did not even have children. & there r historical evidences of these four simhala tribes occupying sri lanka. Ravana, Dasis Ravana, mahasammatha manu, Katharagama mahasen are a few to recall. Buddha came to sri lanka to solve the fights between choolodhara & Mahodara ( the naaga ) kings. Kuveni who was the first wife of Vijaya was of yaksha tribe. King Pandukabhaya was of yaksha origin,. It is even mentioned in the Mahavamsa & other chronicles. Queen viharamahadevi mother of Dutugamunu was of naaga origin his father of yaksha origin. The Indian epic Chronicles ramayan describes of raksha king Ravana. The vaddas of Sri lanka are of yaksha tribe still who have not been mixed with others. To give you further evidence,. the pahatharata, Udarata dances go far back Vijaya's entry. If Vijaya brought Sinhalese to Sri Lanka where are the Sinhalese In India where he came from, & where is that language, where is the great tank building techniques of Sinhalese in India. Where did pahatharata Udarata dances come from,.. Then concerning dialics such as "mee yakaata monawa welada" - cause we are yakshas,. then nadadeepaya ,. naa puraya, naapokunu, & in every where we built tanks there is a carving of a naagaya ( a serpant ) cause naaga tribes are beleived to be the lords of water. That is the reason naga queen Viharamahadevi was sent to the sea when the sea came in to the land.

Vijaya is definitely not the starter of the Sinhalese,. there are ample of evidences & archeological proofs that Sinhalese were the four tribes of naaga, yaksha, deva & raksha inhabited the island far far before he came,.

amodha 12:38, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


did you know there are similar irrigation works in south india?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Anicut

Hmmm that article is interesting,. But it says that the dam built by chola was in the 1st or the 2nd century. And further says that “It is considered the oldest water-diversion structure in the world still in use” How can that be the oldest when king Pandukabhaya build the “Abhaya wewa “ ( basawakkulama ) in the 4th century BC which is still in use. And the tanks built by kings even before that,.. Ravana, Mahasen, Bali, Taraka, Hiranya Kashyapa etc

[edit] Population figures questionable

First of all note that the numbers for the countries add up to more than the worldwide total.

Of the numbers, only that for Sri Lanka strikes me as credible. The 40,000 in Canada, in particular, is incredible to me as it is at least a quarter as large, possibly half again, as the Tamil population of 100-200,000. That cannot be right. Tyronen 17:38, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I think you're right, way too high. But where to get official figures, or: Are there any at all?
And what is the importance of that figure? For other peoples there are no numbers of individuals living abroad given in the respective articles. It makes sense for Tamils, Sikhs, Jews, Tibetans etc. because they have a significant and important diaspora. But for the Sinhalese? Cheers, Krankman 18:32, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
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