Talk:Shape optimization

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[edit] Suggestion

Something that might be useful is pictures of before and after the optimization. That would give people just stumbling on to the subject an idea of what this actually is. I know there are plenty of pictures out there, but I don't know where to find some that are legal to post here. If I get ambitious I'll look around a bit more, or maybe make some of my own. - EndingPop 22 Dec 2005

(copied here from talk:topology optimization by Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 03:55, 23 December 2005 (UTC))

Oh, please do make pictures! It will be very much appreciated. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 03:55, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm curious about something. I only know what this is because I test software for a company that makes optimization applications. I know it as topology optimization, and I wasn't sure if this was the correct page even after being redirected here. I think we need to have parts of the page that are a little "dumber", for the average folks (like me!). I use this idea exclusively for structural optimization using a commercial FEA code, but are there other things this can be used for?

As for pictures, there are many out there, but I'm not sure about the copyright status, etc. Also, because I used commercial software for this, I'm not sure how all the copyright stuff works for using pictures generated using those packages.

So, to dumb this down a bit, there should probably be something explaining, in layman terms, what this is. I can only explain it for structural optimization using FEA, and even then I'm unsure of the details. What I do, is create a structure and apply a mesh. Then the optimization program reduces the density of the elements with the least amount stress in them. This is iterated until a structure is found that can carry the loads applied with elements that are of varying density. We hide element sets of 0-5% density, 5-10%, etc until a structure is found that is continuous but is significantly lighter while carrying the same loads. Is this similar to how you do it, or have you at least heard of this technique? EndingPop 16:56, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, so your experience is more applied than mine. I wrote my own codes to do shape optimization, which amounts to minimizing a functional (iteratively), but I never did more than academic examples. I don't know how else to reword this article. Feel free to edit it yourself, that may give me some ideas. :) Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 21:48, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

My main point is that the first line where you describe the mathematical formulation is meaningless to me. The same could be said about the standard form of a design optimization problem. Since I've taken a class on classical optimization I know what the standard form actually means. However, 4 months ago I would probably not have a clue what that line is saying. That's exactly my problem with the standard form of the shape optimization problem. I think this could be resolved with a simple example. That's actually my plan for the design optimization page, since that description doesn't help people who aren't mathmaticians. Since my experience with topology is rather different than the mathematical sense, do you think you could come up with something (however contrived it may be)? I think a well written example (and pictures, once one of us figures out a good way to get/make them) would really make the article useful. - EndingPop 05:20, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, shape optimization is not much different than design optimizatoin, only that the quantity to be optimized is a shape.

I don't know how to write the introduction better, that is the mathematical definition. There is some examples section under the introduction which tries to expain what that is about. Did you read that section?

Yes, this article needs more work, but I don't work in the area for the moment, and I can't make nice pictures (I never worked on real world optimization, only in an academic setting). Feel free to work on this article yourself. :) Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 16:15, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Term Confusion

The page has been updated to include general shape optimization along with topology optimization. Is intended to include things such as parametric shape optimization? If so, I think we need to have more information on that subject and possibly separate the topics. Also, you removed the links to FEA codes on the FEM website, should we do the same here? - EndingPop 12:46, 30 August 2006 (UTC)