Talk:Sexual abuse

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Discussion archives: September 10, 2004

Contents 1 References needed 2 From a victim of sex abuse 3 Female offenders not mentioned, sexist language 4 Bias within Sexual Abuse article 5 Incest 6 worth mentioning 7 Minor sexual abuse section inaccurate 8 marriage to minors 9 "Romeo Exclusion" and Marriage to a Minor

[edit] References needed

Removed from the article, for lack of reference:

In ancient China, young girls often had their feet bound in a manner that caused the big toe to stick out. The enlarged toe served as a substitute penis for the girl. Some ancient Chinese texts describe using the big toe in sexual play, leading many researchers to conclude that the practice was abusive. Others doubt that statement, and claim that this was a standard and accepted practice, and did not cause the negative effects associated with modern child sexual abuse.

Which ancient chinese texts? During which eras of footbinding? Which modern texts refer to this?

In some South Pacific island cultures, it was believed that young boys needed to swallow large amounts of semen, termed jerungdu, in order to properly mature sexually. This was accomplished by older boys receiving oral sex from the younger boys.

Vaguely recall reading something slightly similar to this ages ago, although I'd certainly want to see the references before seeing this included in a wikipedia article... Mathmo 11:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Which cultures? When?

THAT IS GROSS!

Someone has a sick mind. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sj (talk • contribs). on October 22, 2004.

Haha. You have to be American. It still amazes me how ppl are culturally conditioned react to things. I've read about this more than twice in my many years of reading psychology/sociology works, and I'm going to try to find a ref. --DanielCD 20:08, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

It's been readded into the child sexual abuse article, this time with a proper ref. --DanielCD 22:07, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Errr... made my comment too soon, before I read this.... Although, when I look at the article I can't see this included anywhere or there reference. What happened to them?? Mathmo 11:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] From a victim of sex abuse

I am a victim of sex abuse and in 2004 I made the biggest leap in my life and wrote a reasonably detailed article on what was going through my mind and how it affected me, this could be used in the article, or just as a reference somewhere, I am new to editing wikipedia, so at the moment I edit nothing more then the talk pages. The article is here: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/13023005/

The article apparently has helped a few new-found-friends who have suffered abuse, even completly different abuse. I think it is best being under External Links personally, should I put it there? --Kintaro 13:27, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Heck, I added it anyway, wasnt sure how to describe it, I feel biased describing my own work, so maybe someone could care to read it and maybe edit my description of the link. --Kintaro 14:09, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Interesting personal account. But I suggest you edit it a little bit (I would have suggested you post it on some wiki, but I guess collaborative editing of personal memories would be weird :-] ), fixing obvious grammar errors, structuring it better, etc. There is nothing that a simple reread and fix things that can be done better (repeat) cycle can't fix. It has the potential to be a great article, but I think it's still an early revision. Thanks for sharing the link anyway, and I hope you will work on your article a bit more. Paranoid 16:26, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I have felt it has needed editing for some time. I may work on this in the near future. --Kintaro 07:56, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Also, I would be happy for others to edit it and email it to me, that would be best. I think I will fire up and edit it myself however. My grammer has been greatly improving it seems .--Kintaro 08:59, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I just completed another revision, it is now linked from the page to another location along with a PDF copy of the document. The first primary link is to a page on my forum which is hosted on my ADSL connection, but it will always contain the latest version/revision of the article.

Alright, regarding edits, I have set up a page on my local wiki that people can freely stroll upon and vandalise, or edit grammer, spelling, whatever you see fit, or just comment and add suggestions.

[edit] Female offenders not mentioned, sexist language

I find it very disappointing that abusers in this article are invariably refered to as "he" and that female offenders aren't even mentioned.

Whether you are of the school of thought that it's not wrong for women in their 30s and 40s to have sex with 12 year old boys (the boys are "lucky" according to some), that's not the legal defintion (despite many female pedophiles and child sexual abusers getting away with it).

What does it say when a man who abuses a boy is a pedophile and child sexual abuser, but a grown woman who abuses a boy is not?

Despite the common disbeliefs, many young girls who are abused by pedophiles don't think it's wrong until they are TOLD it is wrong. This is much the same for a boy who claims he wasn't abused because he liked it. Many accept this. But if a young girl says she wasn't abused, this is (and rightly so) unacceptable. She is not in the position to say whether she was abused. It should be no different for boys.

This double standard is sexist and dangerous.

[edit] Bias within Sexual Abuse article

The generalisations under the heading of Spousal sexual abuse are not supported by any public record or statistic. As a result, the statements do not conform with the Wikipedia Neutral Point of View Policy. Recommend deletion. DB 12:42, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree, it does seem very biased. What made me first check the talk page to see if anything had been said about that, so.... deletion. Mathmo 11:36, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Incest

This page was just edited to include incest as a non-consensual, forced behaivor. While I agree that incest deserves to be classified as a form of sexual abuse, it is often consensual and so I would argue that it belongs in its own category\bullet point.

[edit] worth mentioning

The article should mention the conflict of legal age of consent with reality, that some who are within the legal age of consent may actually be more sexually and psychologically mature than some who are older than the age of consent, and as a result a person who is older than the age of consent may be sexually abused (a.k.a taken advantage of) by another adult, yet not raped because she/he was not emotionally mature enough to say no, yet the person who performed the abuse, who took advantage of another person's weakness for their own pleasure, will get away with it. Often the person is fully aware of the other party's immaturity and insecurity and that he/she is taking advantage of someone, and uses the same techniques that other abusers use on children. It creates an unfortunate situation where a person may be sexually abused yet feel powerless and guilty about it, and where the abuser gets away with it. It highlights the ineffecacy of America's sexual education programs in teaching young people to assert their sexual rights and also the flaws of age of consent laws which don't take into consideration a person's psychological age. There has been some discussion about it, in Sweden for example, but it was argued that it would be too difficult to prove when it happens, even more difficult than rape, to prove that they took advantage, and therefore is probably not realistic to prosecute them, or that there would be a risk of innocent people being prosecuted. Nevertheless it is still a problem that should be mentioned on here as it relates to abuse, because people are abused in this way yet often feel that they themselves have done something wrong, and should be encouraged to get counseling and realize that they were in fact abused. Akseli 12:59, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Minor sexual abuse section inaccurate

The "Minor sexual abuse" section was inaccurate in several ways. It is inaccurate to say that all sexual activities with minors is sexual abuse under all state's laws. The key is whether the minor in question is Under the age of consent. Since some states set the age of consent at 16, then it is possible for a minor of 16 or 17 in those states to legally consent to sexual activities with an adult. Another problem in the section was the claim that all sexually activities involving minors are illegal since masturbation, generally considered a sexual activity, is not so far as I know illegal under any state or federal laws. Also, I corrected the fact that the section failed to mention the distinction often made between adult/preteen sexual activities (child sexual abuse) and adult/teen sexual activities (statutory rape) or that their exists a marital exemption in some states to sexual abuse laws. --Cab88 23:06, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] marriage to minors

"Another exemption under sexual abuse laws states that exists in some states applies to adults legally married to minors. Thus, said adults can legally have sexual relations with their spouses without violating the law"

wouldn't they have already violated the law by marrying a minor? I don't understand this sentence.. --Froth 03:52, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

It depends. At least in the state of New Mexico, marriage to a minor is permitted so long as parental consent is given. [1], as long as they are over the age of 16. [2] --Puellanivis 22:21, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Romeo Exclusion" and Marriage to a Minor

As a simple example of existence, in the state of New Mexico, marriage to a minor is permitted with parental consent [3] so long as the child is over the age of 16 [4], and no other violations of law would occur in the union (e.g. incest). By expectations of the privledge of marriage, the adult spouse would not be consider to be raping their minor spouse as long as the act was consentual.

In support of both the "Romeo Exclusion" being an exclusion to statutory rape, within the State of New Mexico,[5] there is at least a 4 year difference allowed such as to ensure that a consentual act of sex could occur spontaneously simply because one partner comes of legal age. --Puellanivis 22:40, 11 August 2006 (UTC)