Talk:Sea of Faith

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Sea of Faith is part of WikiProject Atheism, which aims to organize, expand, clean up, and guide atheism related articles on Wikipedia.

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[edit] What is the Sea of Faith?

The Sea of Faith website says:

The Network explores the implications of accepting religion as a human creation; promotes this view of religion, and affirms the continuing validity of religious thought and practice as celebrations of spiritual and social values. The Network has no creed. It welcomes people from all faith and non-faith traditions.

I think the article's claim that the network's "aim is to explore and promote religious faith as a human creation" is plain wrong; promoting "religious thought and practice as celebrations of spiritual and social values" says nothing about faith. Also, "spanning the positions of liberal religion and religious humanism" is too narrow - I'm certain that some of the members are outright atheists who denounce faith and hold reason as an absolute. I suspect that the Sea of Faith Network avoids many attacks from religious groups because it has this appearance of being a faith oriented "religious/philosophical group",so I'm not going to edit the article. Tlhall 17:13, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

In writing this atricle I simply decribed the SoF as it decribes itself. I don't think that the main body of an article is the place to discuss the coherence of the position. However, I was intending to insert a section later entitled Criticism or Discussion where evaluation could be placed. But as this is an encyclopedia I don't think it can include the opinions of just anyone who comes along. We need to quote crits from well-known writers - both religious and secular (for attacks have come form both sides). I have a bit from Ernest Gellner that I will include. I would encourage Tlhall to insert some crit material.

--redherring 22:08, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some personal thoughts on the Sea of Faith

Having once been an active member of the Sea of Faith Network, I have a more personal perspective on the organisation. I'm sure that every Sea of Faith Network member has their own perspective on what the organisation brings to their own faith and, depending on how you define 'God', then you could declare some SoFN members as atheists (just as the Romans declared Christians to be atheists for not believing in their pagan gods). Here are a few personal thoughts I'd like to share with those who are curious about the SoF perspective:

• If God is a supernatural being then, by definition, he is above or beyond nature. To ask the question 'does God exists' is meaningless because 'existence' is a natural concept, not a supernatural one. To attempt to describe God in natural or physical terms probably says more about the limitations of the human mind than it does about God himself. It's for this reason that I find it odd that so many debates about God centre around his 'existence'. In my view, the concept of existence does not apply to God; any argument about the existence of God is a red herring.
• For some reason the monotheistic religions have always insisted that the supernatural God had to be the one that created the physical universe - presumably because this God is believed to be all powerfull and the first-cause in any explanation of how the universe came into existence. This preoccupation with God the creator has been a major obstacle for many modern people in a scientific age - people who simply can't accept the idea of God creating the universe. Consequently, when they drop the supernatural God from their own personal belief system, they often drop the mystical God too. I find this sad, because the latter notion captures all that is important to me about God. The notion that he is all powerful and created the universe isn't as important to me as the feeling that I love all human beings; I might call this kernel of love in us all the 'Inner Light', or I might equally concentrate these kernels of love into a single concept, which I might call 'God'.

I believe it is this second notion of God - the personal, mystical God with whom I already have a direct relationship because he is a part or me, and I believe he is also a part of you - that Sea of Faith members are exploring. Are they atheists because they admit they don't know the supernatural God? I'm not sure I could believe anyone who said they did.

For me, Faith is not about knowing, it is about the very painful business of not knowing. I believe in a common humanity that unities us. I believe there is good - something of God - in each and every person alive today. I believe in the existence of God - not a supernatural God but a God who lives in the hearts and minds of those alive today; if this goodness, this love, ever dies then so will my God. Jesus advised that I should love my God, then love my neighbour as I love myself. This is my goal - all for the price of re-introducing the 'G' word back into my life - and all thanks to the Sea of Faith.

-- Edward Grabczewski 10 December 2006