Talk:Scottish cuisine

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All other articles on aspects of Scottish life follow the form of "X or/in Scotland," save Scots law. What do folks think of the title of the current article? Canæn 03:44, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

The Wikipedia convention is that things associated with people and culture are named "fooish x", and other things are named "x of foo". The std for cuisine, which is cultural, is "fooish", see Category:Cuisine by nationality and Category:Categories by nationality. --Mais oui! 07:22, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I was following the French cuisine, German cuisine convention when I created this article (although there are still some articles such as Cuisine of Morocco which do not follow this) Nach0king 12:23, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

"Hearty Scots food rich in Meats and Fats". I take it someone here has mistaken the modern "mechanically reclaimed meat" and chippie diet for traditional "scran". Real Scots food, high as it is in dairy products, is as healthy a diet as one can get. With a large part of carbohydrate, essential fats and proteins. "Hearty" to me conjures images of Stews, Broths, Game pies, Stovies, Collops, Cullen Skink, Roast Game, Black bun, Crowtowdie, Atholl Brose with Raspberries, not to mention Chicken Jalfrezi, or the Chieftain o' the puddins. It is a failure of Scots society in the 20/21st c. to appreciate this. This results in most of our quality produce being sent abroad where they appreciate it, and importation of produce of dubious merit here where we couldn't care less supposedly. A vicious cycle emerges, when we are too lazy and lethargic to prepare decent food and rely on shoddy ready-meals and takeaways, thereby lowering our energy levels further. Right, rant over and my kebab awaits.

Seriously, can we try not to go along with the sick man of Europe line, it doesn't seem to be within the remit of this article. Scots food is as diverse as any in Europe and little known apart from Haggis. Surely health issues should be discussed elsewhere, and this page reserved for the joys of Gigot of Mutton, Cock-a -Leekie etc.? Brendandh 23:30, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I think using this article to describe Scottish cuisine in its ideal form, or as you think it should be, is inappropriate for an encyclopedia. Hearty was perhaps a poor choice of word on my part but there's no denying that the failure of Scottish society, as you put it, is very much a real one and a recognition of the atrocious state of the Scottish diet is 100% needed in an article on the Scottish cuisine. Do you honestly think that Cullen Skink and Crowtowdie are more indicative of the everyday diet of your average Scot than, say, a Scotch pie or a pizza crunch? I certainly don't and I think the vast majority of people and printed/web sources based in Scotland, at least in the West, would agree.

There is certainly room to discuss the proud elements of Scottish cuisine but to attempt to "not go along with the sick man of Europe" line is, I'm sorry to say, an attempt not to go along with reality. Nach0king 10:36, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe that there is room for both in this article. I encourage you to Be Bold!, and write gloriously yourself of the wonders of Scottish cuisine. That said, I think that health problems, if they're prevalent or particularly severe, should be mentioned. Canæn 06:44, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I tried to clarify it a bit by pointing out that many traditional dishes are in fact good for you; the soups and potages that would feed whole familiies would be rather low in meat and fats, instead using lots of root vegetables, barley etc. But the health problems here *are* severe, as referenced, and I think the article should reflect this. In fact I'd arrange it thus:

• Traditional, hearty Scottish fare that may be fattening due to locally-available ingredients and a cold climate, but is characterised mostly by its reliance on local crops, with meat sometimes used only for stock or at least sparingly.
• Many Scots eat very badly, with chips forming the basis for many if not most meals. The availability of fast food and the decline of big family soup-esque dinners that we may have eaten 100 years ago contributes to this.
• However, in common with much of the UK and Europe in general, a growing number of people are trying new things, returning to fresh fruit and vegetables (this seems to be happening a lot more recently) and recognising the importance of a healthy diet. While a lot of this is based around salads and so on that cannot be considered traditional, there's still a place for traditional Scottish food here: a dish of salmon, potatoes and a green vegetable can be sourced locally pretty much no matter where you are in Scotland.

I think this puts across the reality of the situation - that the Scots diet is poor - whilst recognising that it was not always this way and - hopefully - will not always be this way. Any objections? (Oh, and I took "hearty" out, as I agree now that it was a very poor choice of word from me - sorry!) Nach0king 13:48, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. I think there should be an explanation however that the chippy diet was one borne out of social deprivation, decline of the nuclear family etc. and the various consequences of that, and that has not been helped by the arrival in the 1970's of Big Macs etc. which presented the fast food diet to a larger section of society than before. (In fact I suppose "Heart-y" is a good word when you consider all the cholesterol filling up the coronary arteries of our compadres!) ;-) I also however think that there is scope for explaining the historic diets of the grander Scots country houses, and how that has affected modern Scots restaurant cheffing et. al. and the influence that that has had on generally Metropolitan (ie Edinburgh and Glasgow) tastes at home over this and the later part of last century and the expansion of that palate into the rest of Scotland. Now, that might be considered have vague overtones of Urbanite snobbery, but not so. I think it's imperative in this article to explain the bad, but also to extol the good. I don't know whether it is a good idea or no to include a section on the overdrinking in this country. It is probably a grey area, booze being something to accompany food as well as for a saturday night! Anyway good luck with the edits, I'll chuck in my pennys worth from time to time.Brendandh 05:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Those are good ideas and your recent edits are excellent. I totally agree that we should cover the good and bad - after all, we're aiming for neutrality here and both are extant. I'll include a section on drink soon (unless someone else does it first) and while it'll of course cover binging it'll also mention, say, the vast array of whiskys for which Scotland is world famous. Nach0king 22:45, 12 December 2006 (UTC)