Talk:Scottish Highlands

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Reasonable article in terms of prose but...

  • Completely unreferenced. Needs more citations per WP:CITE.
  • Also, prose is better than lists. Convert them into prose or delete them altogether.
WikiProject Scotland To-do:

I note the article offers a definition of Scottish Highlands with respect to Scottish Lowlands, but ignores in its initial definition the existence of the Western Isles, Orkney and Shetland. Whether the Western Isles (where the Gaselic of Highlanders now best survives) should be excluded from the Highlands is somewhat debatable. Also the article ignores the more modern concept of Highlands and Islands which, in broad terms, brings together in one area the Highlands and the Far North (including Orkney and Shetland). Laurel Bush 09:33, 31 May 2005 (UTC).

In my Philips Atlas, this area (north-west of the Great Glen) is called the North West Highlands, and the Highland region itself is shown as including the Inner Hebrides and towns such as Newtonmore and Aviemore east of the Great Glen. Shantavira 14:23, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The area is described as the 'Highlands and Islands' in Scotland and the Outer Hebridies should be included in any article dealing with the contemporary highlands (historical references may distinguish between two seperate areas). User:An Siarach

Contents

[edit] Highlands or highlands

Surely the area in question is a proper noun, and should be refered to with a capital H? Grinner 11:35, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I just did a quick google search and almost all the first twenty results come back with 'Scottish Highlands', implying its use a proper noun. None of them are capitalised like this article. I think it's wrong, and it should be changed back as it was Crosbiesmith 18:53, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Scottish highlands instead of Scottish Highlands does seem to me a bit like British isles instead of British Isles. Laurel Bush 13:12, 6 January 2006 (UTC).

And perhaps the article would be better merged with Scottish lowlands at Scottish Highlands and Lowlands. Laurel Bush 12:01, 7 January 2006 (UTC).

hmmm, that just complicates things if you ask me! I propose we return to capitals for now: a debate about potential merging can wait. I'll move it back tommorow unless someone objects. Grinner 10:58, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Couldn't move it, but I have made a requested move. Grinner 12:30, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Just thought I should draw attention to current usage of Scottish lowlands. And the two areas do seem to be mutually defining: if anywhere in Scotland is in the Highlands then it is not in the Lowlands. Laurel Bush 12:39, 10 January 2006 (UTC).

With the exceptions of Caithness, Orkney and Shetland, perhaps?--Mais oui! 14:18, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Scottish highlands → Scottish Highlands – Highlands is a proper noun

[edit] Voting

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~
  • Support - as per what I said! Grinner 12:29, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - using Scottish highlands is a bit like using British isles. Laurel Bush 12:36, 10 January 2006 (UTC).
  • Oppose Why would it be a proper noun? I have lived there, and am still a frequent visitor, and in my experience both lower-case and upper-case are frequently used. The great frequency of the lower-case spelling suggests very strongly that it is not a proper noun, and that users of the upper-case version are making a political point: ie: POV.--Mais oui! 14:25, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support It would be normal to capitalise. Astrotrain 21:33, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - capitalisation is the norm on other sites - Crosbiesmith 19:42, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - capitalised form is correct.--Cactus.man ✍ 07:43, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments

If Highlands is not a proper noun then the existance/value of the entire article is questionable. Laurel Bush 16:59, 10 January 2006 (UTC).

How so? Tens of thousands of Wikipedia articles regard topics which are not proper nouns.--Mais oui! 19:00, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

If "Highland" is a making a political point, surely "highland" is simply making the opposite point? Grinner 13:45, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

In the first hundred results of a 'scottish highlands' search on google, over 90 are capitalized, and only two use 'Scottish highlands'. I know Mais oui! claims this form is frequently-used, but we need some verifiability here - Crosbiesmith 19:42, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Moved. —Nightstallion (?) 08:25, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Coming in a shade late, I'd like to add another point not referred to above. No-one living in the area would normally refer to the Scottish Highlands at all! The area is known either as The Highlands, or The Highlands and Islands. The Scottish Highlands is phrase an outsider, or a tourist agency might use in much the same way that Wikipedia does i.e. as a form of disambiguation. It is perhaps an interesting case where accuracy and clarity are in conflict with one another. If you take a close look at a Google search you should be able to detect this. Really the page should be called 'Highlands (of Scotland)'. Ben MacDui 08:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

You're right, but then people living in the islands call the largest island - "the mainland". This does not imply that we should be renaming Britain to Mainland, however. But this aside, I'd support Highlands (of Scotland) rather than "Scottish Highlands". --Lysytalk 09:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beginning of Highland-Lowland divide

Is first noted by John of Fordun in 1380. The presence of Anglo-Saxons in parts of the South centuries prior to this has no bearing on the fact that we have no evidence of an identifiable cultural split within the Scottish kingdom until this point. Also, the anglicization of the South and Lowlands is beyond doubt and, again, the presence of Angles in the Lothians prior to the founding of the Scottish kingdom has no bearing on the fact that their language and culture later displaced that of the Scots across the rest of the lowlands - hence its anglicization. Neither of these points is debated in my experience (prior to the edits to this article). I have certainly no memory of reading a single Scottish historian doubting the facts with regard to either.

An Siarach

[edit] Map?

Given the complicated geography involved, is there anyone out there that would like to draw a map for the article? This would be really helpful. Of course, if there is a good link out there, would be great too. A suggestion to those in the know! Isoxyl 19:38, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I was also surprised not to see a map on this geography-related article. Maybe just take an existing map and color the areas Jeffhoy 18:10, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Here are two approximate and not very good maps I made. No doubt someone could do better.
Image:HighlandLineGeo.png
Geological Highland Line
This is the geographic or is that geological highland line? To the south and east is the Lowlands, to the west and north the Highlands.
Image:HighlandLineLing.png
Linguistic Highland Line
This is the linguistic or cultural highland line. The situation would have been so about 1700. To the south and east is the Scots speaking areas, to the west and north the Scottish Gaelic speaking areas. The Scots speaking areas in the North of Ireland are also shown.
Nogger 17:26, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] moved some material from Religion section to Culture section

Hello there, I came across this article when I was disambiguating links and ended up doing some cleanup on the Religion section. I've moved some ofthat to the Culture section as I felt that was more appropriate. I've also removed the following text:

This is often not seen among Lowland Scots, where the Protestant population is often not as patriotic towards Scotland, indeed many Lowlanders often sympathise with the United Kingdom before Scotland. As for the Lowland Catholic population, they are often more concerned with Northern Irish/Irish national loyalty than with Scottish.

... which I felt didn't actually inform us about the Highlands and needed some sort of verification before I added it back. Feel free to amend/comment etc. Take care. Politepunk 19:02, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I found the religion section strange almost Sectarian Roman Catholicism was not completely eradicated in the Highlands. I found several sources saying the reformation did not as strong effect as the English speaking lowlands. Gaelic speaking Highlanders many remained Catholic though predominately Protestant there is a significant Catholic population in the Scottish Highland and western isles.

Im a bit dubious about this section. I was under the impression that, southern isles of the Outer Hebrides aside, presbyterian protestantism had spread to pretty much the entirity of Scotland. Are there still some Catholic enclaves in the mainland who maintained their catholicism from prior to the reformation? An Siarach

[edit] Unofficial Flag of the Highlands

Utter tosh I'd say... Just because someone has setup a website in an attempt to "obtain" a flag doesn't...

I'll have a hunt round to see if this is really any bigger than just one individual.

/wangi 21:58, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Ive just deleted the section dealing with it as it seemed to me to be utter tosh as well. An Siarach
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