Talk:Scarlet Crusade
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[edit] Leader Of the Crusade
I thought the current leader of the crusade was Dathrohan(Balnazzar). In many places(questgivers and other such npc's) I have seen him to be referenced as their leader and in Stratholme, when hes about to be defeated, he says "You have undone what I have spent years to create" implying that he created or contributed the creation of the crusade. In the quest about Taelan Fordring, Lord Tirion Fordring says to Isillien that hes been a puppet to Dathrohan. Don't all these indicate that Dathrohan, if not founder, is the current leader of the Crusade?
- Hmm, I'll have to look into this. I've run the Scarlet side of Stratholme only once, so my memory is a bit fuzzy, but I do remember that line by Balnazzar. I should also probably finish the quest line involving Taelan while I'm at it and see what his daddy has to say. Most of the information on the Scarlet Crusade I got from the Warcraft Lands of Conflict RPG sourcebook, since it was the only source of hard information on the Crusade that I could find, and it's possible that the information in it is dated. Regardless, I'll look into this when I get a chance (probably later this week, since I don't have WoW on this computer). --Arabani 16:46, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
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- As was posted below, there is a lot of information to indicate that "Dathrohan" (Balnazzar) was actually leading the Scarlet Crusade during the current timeframe, even if he wasn't one of those that formed it. Being as Dathrohan appeared in lore prior to the release of WC3:TFT, which was the first appearance of Balnazzar, and also prior to the events of WC3, I believe it is safe to say that Balnazzar either took over Dathrohan's body or he killed him and use magic to mimic his mind and body and replaced him.
- With that in mind, knowing that a demon had been in control of the Scarlet Crusade for at least 2 years (possibly more), I don't think it's too far fetched a theory that he was using his magics to subtlety influence and madden the members of the Scarlet Crusade. In addition to weakening the Scourge, killing off members of the Alliance and the Horde would benefit Balnazzar and the Burning Legion's long term plans. I figure it would be worth mentioning that it is speculated that Balnazzar could have been the source of the madness that plagues the Scarlet Crusade.--Kaziel 23:29, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I might be having my own little bit of mistakes since all the info I got is from the game and not the book you mentioned. So I may have missed somethings here too.
- I have to add that Dathrohan actually is the Leader of the Crusade! Here are some reasons why: 1)Ranking: The pretitles of the Crusadian Hierarchy are as shown: Grand > High > "Standard Titles" (such as Crusader) = Elite/Special Soldiers > Standard Soldiers > Disciples & the ordinary titles: Crusader (Dathrohan) > Inquisitor (Isillien, Whitemane & Fairbanks) > General (Abbeye) > Lord (Taelan & Valdelmar) > Commander (Mograine) > Special Titles such as Champion (Herod), Houndmaster (Loksey), Cannonmaster (Willey), Protector (Tarsen & Lorik), etc. Fact: The Title "High" refers to a lesser status then "Grand", because it's cleary shown that High Crusader Lord Taelan Fordring is/was a minion of Grand Inquisitor Isillien (both in authority & power) and that Isillien was only a servant of the Grand Crusader (said by Taelan Fordring)! Another proof of this theory is that High Inquisitor Whitemane was responsible for the Scarlet Monastery which lies in the Tirisfal Glades, which were considered as the smallest thread to the Crusade so her title is allready less important then the titles of the other "Leaders" in Western & Eastern Plaguelands! However the Fact that High General Abbeye isn't one of the "Main Leaders" is that she is 1)a rare enemy 2)has no quest (where she's involved in) 3)has no remarkable history in WoW(i didn't read the book so can't say much about it)
- 2)Quests: The last quests involving the Scarlet Crusade are the Fording questline & the Grand Crusader quest line, but in the Fordring questline, when Isillien shows up he says that he was send from the Grand Crusader personally to punish Taelan + when Tirion shows up he accuses Isillien that he has been the puppet of the Grand Crusader for to long (means that Dathrohan/Balnazzar was still alive at this point of the Storyline and was also still in charge of the Scarlet Crusade)! On the other side u have the Stratholme quest were u have to venture into the Scarlet Bastion (encountering the most powerful Scarlet enemies u have met so far), which bears the Archives (which were stated as very important scource of the Crusade by the Argent Dawn) and the Scarlet Throne (The Name alone is reason enough that Dathrohan is the Leader) with The Grand Crusader in it, who yells, when u engage him:"Today u have destroyed what has took me years to build"! However altough Isillien was one of the most important member, his status was even lower then Dathrohan's true second in command: "Demetria, the Scarlet Oracle" (only shown in Horde questline)!
- edit: Balnazzar didn't control Dathrohan (regarding his shapeshift), because it's more likely that the true Dathrohan was killed and Balnazzar took his shape (like Onyxia & Deathwing he may have been able to turn himself into a human)!
- All listed information are taken from my own experience inside WoW.
[edit] The Emblem of The Church
The emblem of the Scarlet Crusade is the emblem of the entire Church of Light which, I believe, is the Church of Light equivalent of the Christian Cross. Scarlet Crusade, being an off-shot of the Church Of Light, just has a different color pattern in their banner than the churches standart banner. The fact that that emblem can be found in places that are completely unrelated to the crusade(Such as graveyards around the World of Warcraft) proves my point. I think this should be added in detail to the article as I have seen some people express their confusion when they saw the emblem of Crusade-unrelated locations.
- I've never actually noticed this. I'd always thought that the Scarlet Crusade's emblem was unique to it. I'll have to look into this one as well. However, I have a suspicion that you're correct on both points. XD --Arabani 16:46, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
The most abundant these symbols are at the neutral areas like Goblin Town graveyards though I have seen it even in places like Thousand Needles(Near the Big Lift). Since there are no Scarlets in those areas, I guess it would be enough of a sign thats its a more general symbol. Though I'm afraid I can't say something about the churches in Alliance zones since I'm a Horde player. By the way, I'm glad someone has finally taken the Scarlet Crusade page under care. It certainly needed it :)
- I just checked the graveyard outside Gadgetzan and you're definitely right ... the tombstones appear to be replicas of the Scarlet Crusade's emblem. Strangely enough, the church in Stormwind only has 4 banners with the Stormwind lion on them, and no other symbols, banners, tabards, etc. I think it would be safe to assume that the emblem is just a general holy symbol for the Church.
On a sidenote, when I was browsing through WoW's data files, I found a file called HolyBanner01.blp, and when I converted and opened it, I saw that it was a golden sun on a white background. However I've never actually seen it, although I suspect it might be the Church's emblem or something along those lines. (You can see it yourself if you use an MPQ viewer, such as WinMPQ, to open up Textures.mpq. The specific texture is at the path World\Generic\Human\Passive Doodads\Banners\HolyBanner01.blp. You can then use a BLP to TGA converter and Irfanview to view it.) --Arabani 18:50, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
You may be right. Unfortunately, I dont have an access to WoW at the current moment. However, I would say if its not in the game, than its not an "official"(not sure if its the right word to describe) symbol and therefore I'd still prefer to go by the Scarlet Emblem as the general Emblem of the church.
