Talk:Saudi Aramco Residential Camp in Dhahran

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[edit] Updated Article

I've put the article back in, plus additions and edits. I've left it tagged for clean-up since it's still obviously got a way to go. The Saudi Aramco Residential Camp in Dhahran will probably need to be more heavily revised. --ReemaS 17:11, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Is this about Dhahran or Aramco Compound in Dhahran??

- requires major correction

This article is all about Aramco compound in Dhahran and neglecting the fact that this compound constitutes only less than 10% out of the populated areas in Dhahran, the city. Probably, it reflects limited information of the world outside Aramco. Dhahran IS a major city in Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia and has its own local government offices, schools, hospitals and shopping malls. Beside the two districts that were initially built by Aramco for its employees' home ownership plan, Doha and Dana, there are more than five new districts that are full of non-Aramco employees. The city hosts two other compounds beside Aramco’s compound, KFUPM and the Air base. A look at Google Earth will show you how wrong to refer to Aramco compound as the Dhahran. [User: AMM]--198.36.32.17 07:31, 24 July 2006 (UTC)



Is there a reason that this page has been moved from Dhahran to Dhahran, Saudi Arabia? Wikipedia convention, as I understand it, is that a country only need be given if there is more than one Dhahran. I am unable, however, to find any other instances of "Dharan", notable or otherwise - am I mistaken, or should the article be moved back? -- Vardion 12:22, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)


This article has been updated to reflect that it talks about the Residential Camp of the company Saudi Aramco. Information specific to the city of Dhahran will be moved to the article Dhahran. There still seems to be a lot of overlap however between the two. Hopefully, future revisions will take care of any information that is redundant or irrelvant to the topic. --ReemaS 15:16, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Usually, on Wikipedia, I've seen multiple users vote before such major article splits are made. I understand your concern about distinguishing between Dhahran as a whole and the compound it encompasses, but is there really that much outside the compound unrelated to the camp that it justifies two independent articles? You've stated yourself that there are significant overlaps, and maybe that suggests that it would be more logical to have a single Dhahran article where the two interdependent subjects coexist. (Or at least a disambiguation page.) Gordeonbleu 20:48, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Actually, yes there is quite a bit of difference. Dhahran is not at all encompassed by anything. It is a municipality with its own government, neighborhoods, etc and is a city in Saudi Arabia. The residential compound of Saudi Aramco is just that. A compound. For many expats who live in the compound, it may seem like it's the whole city, but in reality is a small part of it. I'm currently editing the rest of the article but I can post what I have so you can see what I'm talking about. I'll do that as soon as I can. --ReemaS 19:54, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Okay. Could we name it "Dhahran Aramco Camp" or something around that length? "Saudi Aramco Residential Camp in Dhahran" is descriptive, but maybe a bit too long as a title. Only if it's not a hassle. (I've also placed a link to the residential camp article for people who typed 'Dhahran' and meant the camp. Gordeonbleu 23:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How balanced is the article?

Do you think the article is balanced? what about the photos? I got more but the problem is that the article is already full. Do you think more photos of "sites of interest" are needed? -- Eagleamn 02:29, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)


Response: I think that the article could benefit from some mention of the other ethnicities and the local Saudis living in the Dhahran camp. There's also no information past 1996. Quite a bit has happened since 2001 and 2003, but it might be hard to remain in a neutral tone in the article. Still, I realize that some information and photos might be held back for security reasons, so I commend you for your efforts so far.

P.S. I moved away from Dhahran right before the new walls came up around the schools. I'm curious over what they look like. GordeonBleu 01:56, 9 Jan 2005 (PST)

There seems to be some conflict over the meaning of the town's name.

Months ago when I edited this entry (Dhahran) substantially, I had added the traditional translation "the two backs" [/al-DHahr-aan/, in Standard written Arabic (nominative case)], a translation that also conforms perfectly to the rules of Modern Standard Arabic grammar. Someone else later deleted that translation and added one I think highly doubtful: "'appear' or 'visible', since it is the highest point in its area".

First of all, the substituted English translation is already linguistically suspect for mixing parts of speech - a verb ("appear") and an adjective ("visible"). A word is one or the other. The writer's linguistic authority is thus already doubtful. In checking Hans Wehr's "Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic", I see that the morphological form /dhahraan/ does not occur as a separate entry except as the name of Dhahran, the town itself [and as a fixed phrasal expression /bayna Dhahraanayhim/ "among them"]. It is thus a derivation of some other entry, most likely /Dhahr/, meaning "back" plus the nominative dual suffix /-aan/: "two backs".

The form /DHahraan/ cannot be a verb ("appear") according to any possible take on the rules of Arabic. [A related verb /DHahara/ does indeed mean 'to appear", but that is not the form in the town's name.] The town's name also contains the definite article /al-/, which can only go with nouns and adjectives, never verbs. It *could* be an adjective ("visible") from its shape [e.g. /ta'baan/ "tired"], but there just isn't a separate adjective /DHahraan/ in the dictionary. [A related adjective from the same root /DHaahir/, meaning "visible", does, but that is not the name of the city.] Thus, neither "appear" or "visible" are possible translations of the town's name -- either according to Arabic grammar or according to one of the most authoritative dictionaries on the language.

However, until some official Saudi Aramco native Arabic speaker with knowledge of the company's history can arbitrate authoritatively, I believe the "meaning" line should be left out until this dispute is settled.

--Paul Sundberg, PhD (Aramco Brat and long-time student of Arabic) Jan. 2006

Another response: The root of the name of the city of Dhahran (الظهران) actually does come from the root that means "visibile" (ظهر). It's in reference to the 'hill' that was visible when the city was first established. The hill is called al-Jiri and apparently it was what made the city "visible" initially. ReemaS 13:50, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dh. Hills memories

Hi, Thanks for a glimpse of Dhahran and environs. I left 21 years ago and things do look quite different. The Hills was newly-developed while I was there and the golf course was brown--no grass. I opened the "new" Hills School as librarian. I recall seeing packs of wild dogs in the Dh. Hills back then. Also, a Saudi up trimming dates off the trees in front of the school. Trees were hard to find and tiny where they existed. Road to Khobar looks different, was no overpass back in 70's - early 80's . . . Sharon

        • Well, I'm uploading some new pictures I've taken recently, but unfortunately I can not take any photos of the schools due to strict security precautions. Did you know that the schools are now surrounded by walls?. Things in Dhahran are quite different than they were 15 years ago (when ARAMCO was transformed into "Saudi ARAMCO"). -- Eagleamn 11:30, 07 Jan 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Dhahran History

Outline:

Early 20th century: First exploration efforts, first Americans to come after production became economically viable.| 1940's thru 1960's: First Saudis to come (mostly technicians and field workers), the actual development of the city (main camp).| 1970's: More Saudis (as engineers), oil crisis.| 1980's: Saudi ARAMCO, Iraq-Iran war, development of the Hills| early 1990's: Gulf war and attacks on Dhahran, US Army and US Marine Corps presence in the area, USAF base in Dhahran| late 1990's: terrorist attacks on US service men| 21st century: departure of US troops, 9/11 terrorist attacks, in-kingdom terrorist attacks, decreasing number of Americans, tremendous security measures Eagle 15:36, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Aramco Channel 3

Does anyone have any other information about this TV station? I used to live in Al Khobar during the early 90's (around - but not during - the Gulf War) as a child, and I fondly remember that channel. I'm kinda sad to hear that it's not around any more -_-

I remember it used to start every day with ELP's Fanfare For The Common Man, accompanied by some crappy graphics. I also remember they had to have intermissions during the muslim praying times, though all the other local channels did that too. I don't remember much else, besides them showing a lot of (mostly crappy) American cartoons and sitcoms. It may have been broadcast in PAL (if I recall correctly), which would have been unusual as TV stations in Saudi are supposed to use the SECAM system.

I left just before they had finished installing the satellite TV system in my compund, so we didn't really have much of a choice of what to whatch back then!

Also, I used to attend Dhahran Academy. It appeared to contain a British primary school (which I was in), and also Dutch and American schools (though I never knew much about them - it was a very big school). Did kids of Aramco employees go there too? --Zilog Jones 04:37, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

  • Aramcons have their own schools (inside the camps). There are two schools in Dhahran (in the Hills area), elementary and junior high, in which only expats' dependants may enroll. I don't know much about Channel 3, except that it was the first TV channel in Saudi Arabia (somehow it's called Channel 3). For one reason or another, they had intermissions during prayer times although inside Dhahran (unlike the rest of the country), there are no Mutawas. Eagle 15:33, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)


[edit] "Mission Accomplished"

This is to announce the end of major article edits (at least by me). The process lasted exactly 6 months. -- Eagle 16:19, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Saudi Laws in Camp

Thank you Eagle for a fine job. First-rate. But (there is always a but), I am not comfortable with the section saying Saudi law does not apply in Camp. While there seems to be some sort of very strong traditions that allow Aramcons to handle their own problems, I doubt this statement is true in the legal sense. (BTW an old friend killed himself at Camp a couple of months ago, a sad event. Were Saudi police involved in an investigation such as this?) Again, fine job. I will not change it but bow to your superior knowledge. Paul, in Saudi 18:02, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Thank you. Well, the law "almost" does not apply. Actually, all aspects of life are completely different. However, when it comes to crime (serious crimes) and terrorism, it's in Saudi Arabia after all, and Saudi police or whatever has to play a role. Please feel free to change anything you think needs to be changed... it's Wikipedia. Thanks. -- Eagleamn 06:31, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
  • Nope, your work is excellent. I will not change it. Paul, in Saudi 15:05, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dolly Parton?

What is Dolly Parton? A sight I never saw (or heard of) or some inside joke? I thought I would bring it to your attention. Paul, in Saudi 04:17, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

I have no idea what this is on about, I lived in Dhahran for five years and never heard about it, I would say someone is trying to be smart. Anyway I removed it so if there was a reason why it was there please let us know. Woldo 07:04, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other Aramco Communities

I see that the Dhahran article links to Ras Tanura. Anyone here have the information to start other Aramco communities like Abqaiq? -- Gordeonbleu 09:30, 30 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Out of the four main communities of Aramco (Dhahran, Ras Tanura, Abqaiq, and Udhailiyah), I have little information about Abqaiq and Udhailiyah because I've never been there. They are both in the middle of the desert with no major cities nearby unlike the other two. I live in Dhahran and sometimes go to RT but I can not contribute much to its article (though I'm currently closer to RT than DH). It would be great if someone with some knowledge could expand the articles (I will try to start them soon). -- Eagleamn 17:16, July 30, 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Satellite and Aerial Photos

I've added links to satellite images from Terraserver and Google Maps. They don't offer very high resolution for this part of the world though. Gordeonbleu

[edit] Dolly Parton

To answer the question about Dolly Parton, it’s a jebal (those rock mountains) between the BMX (skate park), and the bachelor housing. I've been living in Dhahran for about 13 years now with my parents and brothers (were all originally from Texas), and I have had many good memories made on that jebal. Sneaking out of my house and meeting up with my friends on Dolly Parton. Drinking brown (naughty) and smoking hub (shisha). Fun times in DH31311. Oh yeah, I also remember channel 3. It taught me the tune to the Saudi national anthem before I even knew the tune to the American national anthem. I also remember them playing re-runs of old golf tournaments during the weekday. That was awful to watch. Well, again, thanks for writing this page. It's a great reference to Dhahran.

I think the name Dolly Parton is more of local slang for this place then, and I don't feel it is necessery to be listed as a place of interest, it sounds like a place where teenagers do drugs and ride bikes. Woldo 07:06, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Radio

Does anyone remember the FM frequencies of the English radio stations in the Dhahran area?


There's 91.4FM, which is the Studio One FM, airing from Saudi Aramco. 96.5FM is also a popular station, coming in from nearby Bahrain.--ReemaS 13:25, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Who runs these stations? I think I remember hearing that one of them was operated by the U.S. military staff? Gordeonbleu 22:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
91.4 is run by the Communications department of Saudi Aramco. There is an AFRTS radio channel airing on 107.9FM. I believe it might have started airing around the time of the Gulf War. --ReemaS 07:17, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
There's also Radio Sawa on 89.2FM, which airs Arabic and English music. It also has news shows and current events (movies, album releases, etc) and more in Arabic as well. --ReemaS 05:36, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Saudi Aramco Camp, NOT Dhahran City

This article describes the Saudi Aramco Residential Camp, NOT the city of Dhahran in Saudi Arabia.

If there are no objections, I will change the article from Dhahran to Saudi Aramco Camp, which can be linked from the Saudi Aramco article as well.

--ReemaS 13:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I concur. Badgerpatrol 13:50, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Move has been made and I'm making the Dhahran name a stub for the city, so please feel free to add information about the city of Dhahran there. As a result of the renaming, I will also cleanup some of the references/info in the article. This was extremely well written, my thanks to the original author. It's quite comprehensive, just misnamed :) --ReemaS 14:21, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
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