Talk:Sailor Moon episode 001

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Sailor Moon
 Sailor Moon episode 001 is part of WikiProject Sailor Moon, a project to present information on Sailor Moon and related articles. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page (see Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ), or visit our Project page for more information!


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[edit] Episode summaries

We're not going to merge English episodes into Japanese episodes! We are keeping them separate! Kogsquinge 23:51, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Consensus at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Sailor Moon seems to have been that we're going to merge the episode summaries into single articles, and change their names to things like Sailor Moon episode 001 to eliminate the current confusion. Each article will have a section about changes made to the dub. This way, someone looking for information about each episode only needs to look in one place, rather than many.
Please discuss this potential change here, giving detailed reasons for any disagreement. If there is still general agreement as of September 23, 2006, this article will be merged with A Moon Star Is Born and renamed to Sailor Moon episode 001, turning it into a template for all other episode articles. That way we can improve Wikipedia's coverage of Sailor Moon by making it accurate, easy to find, easy to understand, and consistent. --Masamage 22:46, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
I personally like the idea of merging the Japanese and English episodes together. The episode summary itself can be based on the Japanese version of the episode and then there can be a special section of the article that discusses the changes made between the versions. So, in other words, I'm completely on-board with Masamage's idea and would gladly help out. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 23:46, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Awesome! Thanks. :) Any ideas about what that section should be called? I can't think of anything that describes it quite sufficiently. --Masamage 00:03, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
How about "Sailor Moon USA"? If not, I'll rack my brain over it while I'm at work. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 00:52, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, the usual name for the dub is "North American," since it also applied to Canada (from whence came most of the actors). But I'm reluctant to name the section "Dub version" or similar, because that feels like it wants a full description of everything that happened in the dub version. Maybe "Changes to dub" or "Changes to English dub"? But then, the dub itself wasn't changed... "Changes made for dub"?
Hmmmm... "Sailor Moon Westernized version"?? -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 01:02, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
That has the same problem I mentioned, of not mentioning that the section relates specifically to changes. Maybe just "Dub changes" would be good, actually... --Masamage 01:05, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Okay. "North American differences". -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 01:13, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm going forward with this today. I've been thinking about it, and realized that a name stressing "changes" would turn the dub-specific sections into lists. So I'm going to go with "DiC version" for now, to completely disambiguate from other dubs or English variations. Theoretically, later we'd use "Cloverway version." If we decide we hate that, we can change it while this is still the template. :) --Masamage 16:37, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Aaaaaaaaand there it goes. Phew. Tell me what you think! --Masamage 17:53, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
I have an idea!! Instead of saying DiC version, we replace that heading with the name of the dub title. And for episodes that were not dubbed, just insert a note saying so. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 01:51, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
The Episode name for the dub should be mentioned. How about "North American Version" or "English Language Version" Then a short note on who funded it. There should be a main article on something about Optimum, etc. I was wondering if Sailor Says should be covered too. That incipent very annoying DiC nonsense that was amusing nonetheless.
The episode title and DiC are mentioned at the top of the article...I think they still should be, but it could be repeated in that later section. I still think naming the version after the company itself is a good idea, but if I'm outvoted I won't fight too much. :) It just seems more exact; "North American" doesn't work because I think they used the same dub in Australia and possibly England. "English language version" is also awkward because of the existence of unlicensed dubs and the like.
I love the idea of putting in the Sailor Says moral! XD Dooo it. --Masamage 01:52, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
I vote the Sailor Says as a bold face in the DiC Version part of it. A short thing, like what the moral was, then a short note about any cut in footage that they took out from the original. For example in the curry episode they showed a bunch of footage they cut out with the moral "Be careful in the kitchen and always have an adult". I forgot what the first one was, but I guarentee I have the tapes with *all* of the epsodes from DiC with the Sailor Says. I got up to get those (6:30 in the morning, may I add) I'm pretty sure ADV cut thos out of the box sets... but I have them *evil laugh*. XD.

[edit] Character Designer?

Should the character designers be listed with the Director(s)? There were 3 of them and they switched frequently in the Super series. In Japan being character designer and director are the big deals--many directors port the character designers with them, as seen with Heat Guy J and Escaflowne, with Saint Seiya, Utena, etc many directors take their character designers with them. (this is not typical in the US, but it is notable in Japan). The charcter designer in Super switched back and forth for a while (I'm so sick I can name the character designer switch easily)

Wow, I have no idea. Is the character designer the same person as the art director? Unless the designer switches around every episode, it seems like it might be best to mention that on the arc pages. Maybe? --Masamage 01:52, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps putting them in the arcs? The Art Director is a different person. I would then put a fairy extensive mention in the arc pages about the switching back and forth in Super so you list out who did what episodes. The switch is quite visible between Tadano and Itou-san. After Itou-san left the next character designer, I believe was promoted from within the staff. Like Itou before her. The directors by your argument too didn't change all that much during the series. (Series directors were 3 people.) So how to format? And you probably sghould quantify the type of director, though the way anime is run is less stratefied and bureaucratic, there are still different kind of directors for a given episode. Though unlike American animation the combination of director and character designer can create different results even with the same character designer for the same series (Hitoshi Doi covered this so we can cite sources.) --Hitsuji Kinno 16:06, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
You know, what this really says to me is that we need a customized Sailor Moon Episode template. Or is there an anime one already that accomodates this? --Masamage 19:17, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
If there isn't one for anime, there should be and it should be proposed to the Anime and Manga people. To go with that there should be a manga one too... where you get to list info like author, editor, assistants, number of acts, etc. --Hitsuji Kinno 21:54, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

The character designer for the anime series is Kaogawa Hisashi. I found this info on the back page of the first Sailor Moon StarS book. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 22:14, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Eek. The info I have says Kazuko Tadano and Ikuko Itoh, which is now what's at Sailor Moon (anime). Maybe there were multiple? --Masamage 01:29, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
There were 3, Kazuko Tadano, Ikuko Itoh, and Katsumi Tamagai (in order). The first two did artwork in Manga Volume 10. Tadano is married and does most of her work with her husband who also was on the series. It was mentioned that Itoh also went shopping with Takeuchi and found a silk hat like Tuxedo Mask's. There is an image of Tadano and Takeuchi together each holding a picture. So this is not in doubt. The reason I addressed this is because there are three, but the first two switched off frequently during Super, I assume so that Itoh could get established when Tadano left. Itoh then left with Ikuhara (Ikuni to his fans), to do Utena... which left the third character designer basically to do it all by herself wihout any sort of transition. But if you look, she was working other jobs before this on SM (on anime, unlike American studios they seem to switch off a lot on jobs, except for the director.) There were also three directors too... anyway source for the third: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=795
Hisashi Kagawa I believe is the one that works with Tadano... but he's not a character designer, I think he's a director (directors have to be able to draw too.) Anyway, I'm pretty sick, because I can tell the difference between the three character designers. I can't tell the difference between the internal directors like Hitoshi Doi can... but I can tell you how their direction style differs. ^^;; --Hitsuji Kinno 16:29, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Yay, awesome. When you have some spare time, could you add that info to the anime article? I'm afraid I'd mess it up. :) Thanks! --Masamage 00:59, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sailor Says

These two pages seem to have some good info about the dub (though mixed with a bit of editorializing).

I think there's one missing in between them. They do include summaries of the Sailor Says message, but they aren't quite detailed enough. For the life of me, I can't find a single page out there that just lists the Sailor Says segments. Not that there's much call for one, but still! It'll be hard to fill that in without dumping the entire responsibility on those who have the tapes. --Masamage 09:46, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I do have the tapes... so if it comes to that I have them.--Hitsuji Kinno 21:52, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I think I burned my tapes. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 01:29, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
LOL. --Masamage 01:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Score! I found it! :D --Masamage 07:55, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Very nice site, but there's a little mistake in #1, and they're missing 65+. No problem, when I get back home I can get them myself (and even make recordings if you want)!

Site: "Sometimes, the hardest thing in the world is believing in yourself. Especially when your grades are not-so-stellar. Or, you're kinda clumsy. But you never know what the real you can do. Set your mind and heart on it, and anything is possible!"

Actual: "Sometimes, the hardest thing in the world is believing in yourself. Especially when your grades are less-than-stellar. Or, you're kinda clumsy. But you never know what the real you can do. Set your mind and heart on it, and anything is possible!"

-- RattleMan 22:55, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I see! It's probably not that big of a deal if we don't quote the entire thing, which is how it appears in the article now. (I'm not convinced it would be encyclopedic to quote it all, even though I sort of want to.) But the more and the more accurate sources we get, the better.
I think a good strategy would be to use the website as our basic source (since it's right there, accessible to all of us, and in print rather than that horrible voice), but those who have the episodes can correct simple wording flaws, like you just did. :) A recording probably isn't necessary unless someone doesn't believe you...which, uh, I do. X) --Masamage 23:02, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another resource

Here's one page of a crazy website that goes into way more detail than we'll ever need to--it's even got screenshots! Woo! http://smuncensored.com/comparison.php?episodeid=7 Anyway, it can probably be utilized to find large changes to the dub, but we don't need to go nuts and find all of them. --Masamage 09:56, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New image

I've changed the image, for the following reasons:

  1. This one is much higher quality.
  2. It has a verifiable source.
  3. It is illustrative of the episode in general, making it a better fair use option.

If anyone hates the change, feel free to revert and discuss. :) If you don't hate it, mentioning that would also be great.

I'm working on fixing up episodes two and three as well, but I'm not going any further quite yet. Still hammering out the template kinks, and I'd rather we do that over three than over 48 or however many episode articles have been made. ^^; --Masamage 06:15, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

The new pic is a lot better. However, I thought that the title was "magnificent transformation". That's what it's called on the DVD box set. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 06:23, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Ugh, really? And Hitoshi Doi says 'Splendid transformation'... Yeah, probably we should go with the DVD box-set translations, since they're the only thing anywhere near official. Let's be sure of consensus first, though. I'll mention it over at Talk:List of Sailor Moon episodes.
Also, I've made a subcategory to Category:Sailor Moon media; it's Category:Sailor Moon episode screenshots. That way we don't clog up the main one too badly. As we go through grabbing better shots for each article, we can keep a naming convention, too.
(I also posted one for Sailor Moon episode 002 and replaced the one at Sailor Moon episode 003 with something less incongruous. That's as far as I'm going for now, but most of the other episodes have grungy or unsourced images too, if I remember right. Some are reasonably well-selected, though, so we may stay with them in spirit. ^^ Anyway, take a look at the new images.) --Masamage 06:49, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] MOTD Profiles

Should a rough MOTD profile go into the episode summaries? (as in a section) I was thinking like listing out attacks, posting a basic image of the monster. This would combine it with one-shot characters that become the monster too. If there is no MOTD, then leave out the section, or just note the main enemy for that day. --Hitsuji Kinno 21:52, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Heh, the obsessive-compulsive side of me is all over that. X) But I fear it may qualify as fancruft in terms of how detailed this really needs to get... I don't know if we can really report anything about Monsters of the Day that would be meaningful to anyone but a wild'n'crazy fan. --Masamage 00:50, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
I'll ask the Anime project then... because they seem to think some wild and crazy fandom is OK, I jjust want to know which parts. --Hitsuji Kinno 16:30, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Looks like the motion passed as long as we keep it simple. Where should it go and I would assume "Monster of the Day" would be a sufficient name? I would think listing basic creation, master and notable attacks, with maybe an image would be enough without having to do overload. --Hitsuji Kinno 02:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Mm...I don't know that I agree. It got three replies; one was me, one was a "keep it minimal" vote, and one was someone saying "I don't know what that is, but sure." That doesn't feel like consensus. --Masamage 07:41, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Can I second that 'keep it minimal' idea? I'd say just name the thing, and say where it came from. (So that if they come up again, eg. in Sailor Moon video games, we can link to the episode article) Anything else, like it's powers, could really be incorporated into the plotline, I think, and The Oracle has more detailed MOTD profiles for enthusiastic fans. - Malkinann 06:29, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Very good point, we can even provide external links to her profiles. --Masamage 19:53, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


Can we also add a "first time" note on relevant articles, like when an attack/item is first used or a henshin is used or a main character is introduced?? -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 09:46, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

You mean episode articles? --Masamage 10:03, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Right. For example: Ep. 001 has the first appearence of Usagi Tsukino, Luna, Mamoru Chiba, Sailor Moon and Tuxedo Mask, plus the first use of "Moon Prism Power, Make Up!" and the first use of Moon Tiara Action. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 20:15, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I do think we should do that. It just comes with the plot description, though, doesn't it? "Luna gives her a pen..." or "The Holy Grail opens up" or other such... --Masamage 21:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] {{Sailormoon}} template add?

Should the list with the characters, etc be added.. the template? Should I also add the see alsos, etc?--Hitsuji Kinno 01:46, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, the main template definitely should. Good catch. What 'see alsos' were you thinking of? --Masamage 19:58, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Sorry for not signing last time.. --; I wasn't really sure which See Alsos, but perhaps it should be voted on what should go down there? --Hitsuji Kinno 01:46, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Series title

That edit, though reverted, brings up a good point. Should we be saying 'Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon' or 'Bishōjo Senshi Sailor Moon' here? Or perhaps both? --Masamage 06:00, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

The first one sounds fine, but I think that if we were to use the second it would be: "Bishōjo Senshi Sērā Mūn". -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 06:46, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Ooh, good catch.
So I tried, in preview, to use the {{nihongo}} tag and display both versions of the name, but it looked horrible right after the episode title. Leaving it untranslated is probably a bad idea too (since you never know how much context someone will bring to this article), so I've switched it back to the English words for now. Further thoughts are still welcome! --Masamage 06:56, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Writing?

In some Buffy episodes eg. Lessons_(Buffy_episode)#Writing - there's some information on the overall arc significance, continuity, pop-culture references, and quotes from each episodes. Would this be a worthwhile addition to the article? -Malkinann 23:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Whew. Probably someday that would be awesome, but we've got a lot on our plates already. I'm reluctant. --Masamage 01:12, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
No worries. Maybe after all the articles are created are looking reasonably decent. - Malkinann 02:48, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Not yet, We haven't even finished making the first series uniform (or created pages for the others) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs) 21:12, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Automated Peer Review

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