Talk:Run Lola Run

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Contents 1 Fate vs. Butterfly effect 2 Could someone please... 3 Is it Berlin? 4 References 5 Video games? 6 Manni thanking the blind woman 7 Never explained? 8 under references? 9 revert? 10 The old Woman 11 again with the unnecessary conjecture in the synopsis 12 Orpheus and Eurydice

[edit] Fate vs. Butterfly effect

In my edit of 2004-10-31, I removed the following:

It is very much a film about consequences and interconnectivity, and seems to deny the existence of fate, or rather aims to define "fate" as something that is malleable, and altered by every choice an individual makes for himself.

Since Lola's encounters rarely involve a conscious choice, I felt the butterfly effect more accurately described what was happening. It's a bit sticky, since the first place the stories diverge is the stairwell. The first time, the dog scares Lola. The second time, the dog's owner chooses to trip Lola. The third time, Lola chooses to intimidate the dog first. Thoughts?

-- Ventura 16:24, 2004 Oct 31 (UTC)

I think you're absolutely right. Change it! The Singing Badger 18:18, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Could someone please...

...add the quotes from the beginning of the movie (one was by T.S. Eliot and the other was "Nach der spiel ist vor der spiel") to wikiquote?

[edit] Is it Berlin?

I'm going to re-check but I seem to recall that this movie did not take place in Berlin but Cologne. I think it mentions it in the director's commentary. If someone else is sure, please edit. If not, sorry!

At the beginning of the story, Lola tries to take a cab. The street name corresponds to separate streets in East and West Berlin. Lola is frustrated because she meant West and the cabbie went East. No other cities would've been split East and West like Berlin was, right? I consider that strong evidence that the setting is Berlin. -- Ventura 05:20, 2005 May 8 (UTC)

It's Berlin, the square through which she runs (the one that we see from above) contains a recognizable landmark in the last scene in which it appears. --Our Bold Hero 22:13, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Manni also mentions that his body will be thrown in the river Spree if he can't recover the money. This river runs right through Berlin.

[edit] References

I think the references section needs cleaning up. The Vertigo painting thing isn't so much a "rumor" as an anecdote the director tells on the commentary track (and so could probably be described more accurately as soon as someone verifies by watching the commentary). I also don't understand how the movie references the work of Wim Wenders, however similar the tone of his films might be. --Our Bold Hero 07:45, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Shouldn't a 'References' section be a list of links to works cited in the article (see WP: Works Cited? Also, the current references section reads like a report someone wrote for an English (or German) class. Maybe someone could clean it up remembering the no-original-research policy. 68.33.74.123 04:19, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

The referrences section strikes me as amazingly POV heavy. "She does a little better" Is an opinion, not a fact. Several times the wiki claims that something happened because of say Lola being needy. How do we know this was the writer's intention? To be honest the whole section seems like it was written by a single, very opinionated person. I'll see if I can clean it up but I've never seen the movie, and would feel horrible about simply deleting large portions of this section without such experiance. If someone who has seen the movie (perhaps heard commentary?) would inform me if I'm wrong I'd appreciate it. Thanks. GL12 08:10, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't catch this discussion before posting. See below.Loodog 20:38, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I deleted it.Loodog 21:24, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Video games?

The last sentence of the second paragraph struck me as stupid. I think it is offending to this film to say that it owes anything to video games. Search4Lancer 10:03, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

I've taken it out, and replaced it with a reference to Kieślowski, a more obvious influence. ProhibitOnions 14:29, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manni thanking the blind woman

"He returns the phone card, but this time, unlike in the previous two sequences, he thanks her." That's not true; i've just watched the film, and he thanks her the first time as well.

You're right. I fixed it.Loodog 21:09, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Never explained?

"She hitches a ride in an ambulance, which is carrying a security guard from her father's bank, who has apparently suffered a heart attack. Lola says "I'll stay with him," and holds the man's hand, and moments later he starts to recover to a normal heart rate. Her puzzling statement is never explained in the film."

It's not stated explicitly, but isn't there some implication that the guard is Lola's real father? Notice how he says "You're finally here..." (or words to that effect) when he meets her at the bank, before looking shocked when he sees her face. His father-like treatment could also be seen as a manifestation of this.

This only ever implied (if that), anyway, but should it be put into the article? --Doug (talk) 21:57, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Extrapolation upon my theory: The security guard has never seen his real daughter, but Lola's mother gave him a description of her. This might explain why he is friendly to Lola in the first and second realities - she reminds him of his real daughter. In the third reality, he sees her from behind, realises that she is his real daughter ("you finally came"), but when she turns around he is shocked to realise that his daughter is Lola. When Lola and the guard are in the ambulance, Lola's acceptance of him being her father (and her decision to stay with him, possibly meaning she will abandon her stepfather) comforts him and saves his life. --Doug (talk) 22:46, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

The security guard is flirting with her, in all three realities, not very fatherly behavior. The guy she agrees to stay with is (far as I can figure) a complete stranger, which is consistent with other instances in the movie of complete strangers forming empathic connections: the blind woman embracing Manni's arm, the old woman showing concern for Lola asking "What's wrong?".

I really don't think the guy in the ambulance is the security guard:

Image:Amb.JPG

Loodog 20:20, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Unless there are any objections, I'd like to remove the entire idea about the security guard being the ambulance patient.Loodog 02:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd vote a very big objection. If there are any doubts as to who it is, one should watch the DVD commentary in which the director notes that whilst in the ambulance the security guard doesn't look so recognisable, it is him (he also points out the beating heart and the grabbing of the chest in the previous parts) Matthew Stuckwisch 14:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] under references?

Someone tell me:

• What this is doing in the "references" section?
• What this highly colloquial and erroneous commentary is doing in the article at all?

"In the second scenario, Lola does a little better. She still allows Manni to make her responsible for his mistakes, and again, he just waits passively at the phone booth for her to rescue him, but this time, she is much more assertive in dealing with her father. She robs his bank, holding a gun to his head! Then she escapes, despite the fact that the bank is surrounded by police. But just as she reaches Manni, a truck runs him over, and he ends up dead. But at least she's not dead!

In the third scenario, both Manni and Lola act more responsibly. Manni actually does something to help himself instead of waiting passively and childishly for Lola to rescue him: he tracks down the homeless guy who has the cash and takes it back. Lola, for her part, doesn't rely on Daddy this time, but instead goes into a casino and legally acquires the 100,000 marks, using her powerful trademark scream to force the roulette wheel to do her bidding. By the time she finds Manni, he has solved his own problem already. However the final scene leaves a question mark on their relationship. Lola is pensive after seeing him very pleased after handing the money over but will Manni continue down this path and risk his and Lola's lives again? The viewer is left with the question whether or not Lola will tell Manni what is in her bag.

At the beginning of the movie, Manni is childishly blaming Lola for his own mistake: "you weren't there with the moped, so I had to take a subway..." Lola tries to reason with him, but Manni is crying like a baby. Maybe that is why his name is Manni, "little man." She rescues him as a mother would rescue a child, at least in the first two scenarios.

In between the first and second scenarios, there's a "pillow talk" flashback, where Lola asks Manni if he really loves her, in an insecure and clingy way. This scene elucidates the nature of their relationship and explains why Lola felt she needed to rescue Manni: she is not very confident and feels unloveable, perhaps in part because of her distant and self-absorbed parents, so she will go to any lengths, even risking her life, for Manni. But between the second and third scenarios, in a similar "pillow talk" flashback, it is Manni who is the insecure one, worried about what Lola would do if he died: would she quickly get another boyfriend and forget him? She matter-of-factly ends this silly conversation by saying, "Manni, you're not dead yet." Lola is strengthening before our eyes, and in the third scenario, she does the right thing."

I would like to remove this.Loodog 20:35, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I removed it.Loodog 21:24, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] revert?

Please do not revert large sections of text without discussion lest the article become the battlefield for an unproductive revert war.Loodog 21:39, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The old Woman

Anybody notice that when the woman converts to Christianity, she goes to a Church (Catholic?) and worships but, is later holding 'The Watchtower' and "Awake!' magazines, published by Jehovah's Witnesses?Abbott75 01:54, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I noticed. I think that either she tried several different religions or the sequence wasn't researched well. -- 13:33, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] again with the unnecessary conjecture in the synopsis

Although the English subtitles have Lola saying "I'll stay with him," the actual German line is "Ich gehöre zu ihm," which translates as "I belong to him." Some take this to suggest that Schuster is Lola's biological father. She holds Schuster's hand, and moments later, he starts to recover to a normal heart rate.

Lola has no way of knowing if this is her real father. In this reality, she doesn't even know bank dad isn't her real father. Bank dad has no reason to lie when he says, "Your real dad died before you were born," and there are many other moments in this movie where complete strangers share profound moments that don't correspond to any relations. Even if this guess were warranted, it does not belong in the summary of the movie, especially in a way that makes it twice as long as the other realities.Loodog 22:12, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

  Actually, this is another problem with the English subtitles. In German, he says "Der Kerl, der dich gezeugt hat, der hat deine Geburt schon gar nicht mehr mitgekriegt." Rough translation: "The guy that fathered you didn't stay (long enough) to see your birth/ was gone before you were born." He never says her father's dead. 80.136.126.154 00:24, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

But bear in mind that there seems to be some connection between the realities. In the first reality Lola doesn't know how to use a gun and Manni has to tell her how to switch the safety off, yet in the second reality when Lola holds her father at gunpoint, she knows about the saftey. I interpreted 'you are finally here' as meaning that Schuster may also be somehow conscious of the repeated realities. ChristineD 20:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

"You are finally here." = flirting, as in, "You've finally acknowledged your feelings and come to me."

As for connections between realities, also mere conjecture, which is WP:OR and, if it did be long anywhere, it would not be in the summary section.--Loodog 21:33, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Orpheus and Eurydice

I've removed this paragraph as I think the allusion, especially between Orpheus' music and Lola's voice, is extremely strained.

A clear allusion which can be seen running through the film is the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice. Orpheus, possessing the mythical ability to influence with his song and instrument, sets off to persuade Hades (protector of the Underworld) to return his dead lover Eurydice, who has been bitten by the snake, to life. The film's four main characters Lola, Manni, Papa & Ronnie are versions of Orpheus, Eurydice, Hades and the snake respectively. Lola sets off on a quest to save Manni from certain death (at the hand of Ronnie) using her scream to influence events. Papa's position at the bank makes him in a position to provide Lola with the money to save Manni thus making him Hades.

This allusion explains the fairytale-like quality of the narrative and Lola's surreal control, with time resetting with each failure - on endless repeat until good triumphs over evil and love breaks through the strongest barriers. References to fairytales also include Lola being called "princess" and in the lyrics of "I Wish".

--Saforrest 09:03, 16 November 2006 (UTC)