Talk:Roy Masters (radio presenter)
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Statements like "His advice leaned towards misogyny and sexism" need to be changed, I think. (Some of the claims made here may be hard to validate, due to Masters' flying so low on the radar. I've never been able to find much info on him.) Bennie Noakes 18:07, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I happened to listen to one of Masters' radio broadcasts shortly after 9/11 in which he made the comments ascribed to him in the article.
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[edit] Roy Masters Background
I think something should be mentioned of his background as a diamond cutter and gem expert. There is further biographical information on the website www.fhu.com that can be utilized here.
This "biography" is terribly inaccurate. One not need like the man to be correct in the facts. He NEVER condoned the 9-1-1 attacks... this is pure misinformation written by someone with a grudge. You say you heard it-- but it is not and has NEVER been his position. Therefore, your statement is not truthful. Could you have missed the context?
- I think that if the claim cannot be backed up, it should be removed. Bennie Noakes 15:48, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
I as well happened to be turning the dial one day and coming across Masters' program in September 2001, and he was certainly praising the attacks as just punishment for American actions. I can verify the charges made by the person who wrote the article originally. I was originally familiar with Masters during his peak period of popularity in the 1970s and early 1980s and I agree he is extremely misogynistic. Trying to claim he is anything other than a misogynist is like trying to claim that the Ku Klux Klan is not racist. Prairie Dog 20:00, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)
He is clearly against the attacks on 911 and is against all terrorist acts. He loves America and what is right. He never praised Al Queda and that is in out and out lie, period.
[edit] When did his show really end?
I remember hearing him on late night radio well into the late '80s and Bob Larson interviewed him on his show around 1991. The article says it ended in the 1970's.
- Masters' show was definitely heard on Radio Caroline in the mid 1980s.
[edit] Synopsis of Masters opinions and philosophy
As far as I know, Masters has never left the airwaves, and is still broadcasting as of June 10, 2005. Or, he may have been off the air temporarily after moving to Oregon. In addition to airing on over 150 stations in the United States, (Master's claim), his radio show can be heard via the internet at www.fhu.com.
The claim that he praised the attacks against the World Trade Center of 9-11-2001 is made by taking his statements out of context. Masters general opinion is that Western decadence precipitated the attacks, but he is highly critical of Al Queda and Islamo/fascism, recognizes the good intentions of many/most Muslims, and makes analogies between global terrorism, local terrorism and terroism in the home.
Despite his lack of training in psychology, a listener who is educated in psychology and philosophy, both Eastern and Western, will note that he seems to have read a great deal on these subjects, and occasionally cites classical and modern sources.
A philosphical influence often cited by Masters, in addition to Jesus of Nazareth and Thomas Aquinas, is Roman Emperer Marcus Aurelius. Aurelius was one of the last rulers of Rome to be a more or less sober anhedonic who seemed to value the simple life. Persons familiar with the antagonistic personality of Socrates will see simiilaries in Masters.
Masters basic message is that a good life is one that is noble and anhedonic, and all pleasures, especially the base pleasures, are engaged in for the most part due to stress and anxiety and lead to further stress and anxiety in a positve feedback loop. He considers the negative emotions to be pleasures as well, such as anger, jealosy, envy, etc.
Masters considers Resentment to be a precursor emotion that is necessary for other negative emotional states to be entered. He claims this idea is consistent with the basic message of Jesus of Nazareth. Those who have studied Buddhism will see this idea as congruent with that system of thought also. He emphasizes that by learning to identify resentment and to refuse to entertain it one can enjoy a tremendous peace of mind. If one entertains resentment, he claims, then one will develope nuerosis and a predispositon to punish oneself with guilt or to project cruelty onto weaker individuals, such as one's own children.
Masters claims that resentment is a key component of the social hierarchy, and is the tool used by tyrants and other strong persons to force a pyramidical hierarchical structure onto societies, as well as the microcosm of the family. This position can be found almost identically in the works of Friedrich Nietzsche, except that Nietzsche condemned those who resented cruelty inflicted upon them by stonger individuals for different reasons. It seems that Nietzsche's opinion was that the weak should accept what is dealt them, and accept their weakness in the face of stronger persons. Thus the Nazi's favor for Nietzsche. Masters recommends foregoing resentment, but still standing up to and opposing cruelty with calmness and measured response. Masters champions Democracy, while Nietzsche riducules it as something of interest only to the weak. This author can only wonder about what would happen if Nietzsche and Masters were in the same room.
It is debatable as to whether Masters is a misogynist. He considers women to be aiders and abettors in sexual hedonsim, which as an anhedonic he must oppose. He also condems women who attempt to dominate their male spouse, while also condeming such males for allowing themselves to be dominated. There is no doubt that he prefers patriarchy. At the same time, Masters is an advocate for battered women and counsels them to leave their abuser immediately. Additionally, he suggests abused women engage in introspection for the purpose of understanding their own role in their dilemma.
A search for "Roy Masters" on the internet may turn up accusations of cultism. This is curious since Masters teaches how to recognize and avoid cult involvement. This accusation likely arises because after Masters moved his family to Oregon a large number of his radio listening audience, perhaps more than one thousand, also moved to Oregon. Masters seems to have been embarassed by this migration, and readily condemns those who idolize him as "Roy-bots". This author has heard Masters implore such persons to stop listening to his radio show and "get a life".
As an anhedonic he recommends against all recreational drug use as well as excessive alcohol consumption.
He also recommends against sex outside the confines of marriage, and within marriage he advises that sex not become a compulsion or addiction. Masters considers homosexuality to be a hedonism and as such condemns it. He has made statements that homosexuality is conditioned and not genetic.
One of Masters more interesting claims is that most people are unaware they are functioning in a state of hypnosis, and respond to various masters with hypnotic obedience. Resentment and over-indulgence in pleasure are the agents of hypnotic induction. This phenomenon gives rise to group or herd mentalities. He cites the popular movie "The Matrix" as a good representation of this idea.
The phenomenon of imaginary speech, or using language to think, is a subject matter of particular interest to Masters. Students of Zen and Buddhism will recognize this idea. In Western culture in general this distinction of consciousness is still not widely understood, although Western philosophy gradually came to this understanding throughout the first half of the 20th century, likely due to the works of Wittgenstein, Saussure, and neuroscientists.
According to Masters, no one's language based thoughts are their own, but such thoughts are the result of programmings in the cultural milieu. He recommends a psuedo-Zen like meditation to experience non-language consciouness, claiming the experience to be not only restful, but allowing one to evaluate one's own language based thoughts for their source and absurdity.
Masters has been very critical of psychiatrists for overprescribing pills to mentally ill or distraught persons, claiming that such "meds" can at best only temporarily relieve the symptoms but do not in any way treat the underlying issues. He is also critical of modern medicine in general for similar reasons. While these claims were outrageous 20 years ago, there is a good deal of research now to support them.
Persons lacking meaning in their lives, or suffering excessive anxieties, addictions, depression, or general confusion may find Masters' viewpoints helpful and inciteful. Persons who are happy with their hedonism, or who do not consider regular and thoughtless involvement with pleasure to be hedonsim, will not find his message interesting in the least.
Rob Harvey, Los Angeles, June 11, 2005
I will agree that Masters is well read, and one can detect references to poets and philosophers of the past in his discourses. Some of his concepts do reflect his reading; his views on resentment can be found in Nietzsche as well as in Hegel, Marx, Schopenhauer (who seems to have made a big impression on Masters' thought) and others. As for Nietzsche influencing Nazism, you obviously have never read Nietzsche - as Nietzsche highly condemned nationalism and anti-Semitism, I don't think the Nazis actually read him too well. Nietszche was not fond of democracy, and saw it as a weakness in American and British political culture in particular, but Masters has expressed similar views. I can also verify his statements about Iran and Khomeini - he claimed that Iran in the early 1980s was a freer country than America because the Islamic Republic denied full civil rights to women thus protecting men from influences which can result in their enslavement. I can also attest that upon the death of John Lennon, he claimed that Lennon was worse than Hitler, Stalin, or Mao and stated that Mark David Chapman should be considered a national hero.
Masters' influences, however, do not only come from great men of the past, but one can also detect a large amount of influence from L. Ron Hubbard. His emphasis on becoming clear of negative emotions solely through his own techniques, his dislike of psychiatrists and medicine (as you mention, not completely without justification as there is some real abuse), his hatred of homosexuals, his paranoia, all are quite similar to views held by Scientology. I suspect that Masters may have practiced Dianetics in the so called "Free Zone".
Interestingly, his views on language parallel those of the late French philosopher Michel Foucault, an unlikely favorite of Masters', as Foucault was an openly gay man who was certainly not "anhedonic". I wonder what getting Foucault and Masters in the same room would be like.
As for him being a misogynist, that is quite clear. His show, at least in the 1970s and 1980s, largely consisted of him humiliating women on the air and calling them names. He may have done it in his typical calm, softened Cockney voice, but he was calling them sluts, whores, predators, and the like, and seemed to get real pleasure out of it. I'd say that it's pretty safe to call him a misogynist. Prairie Dog 20:24, Aug 14, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] I'll never take him seriously.
He's lied multiple times on the air about many subjects, including, lately, the political status of the creators of the movie, The Manchurian Candidate(2004 remake). He's never published his methods or source of his "knowledge" and insights. He's also gone on record for saying crazy things like he has cured AIDS with his meditation exercise or that Michael Moore is employing mind control techniques with out being specific. I could go on about how just factually wrong this man is. Don't trust him. He's a snake oil peddler. If you're screwed up, go see a doctor. Stay away from this man. He doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
[edit] Roy. Just Human
Roy masters has a very important message (and an actual method to do something about it). The fact that we are being psychologically conditioned from every angle (including our own impulses) into being the foil of more dominant types (and more submissive types, who like parasites in a symbiotic relationship with a powerful predatory host who provides shelter, power, and possibly prestige, will try to induce that beastly form from out of you, Roy calls this "corruption").
This is a very important fact to know about society and the hidden, Nietzschean dynamics behind most "human" relationships, all reenforced by hypnotic suggestion brought on by our varying recreational indulgences (Ex. Rome used gluten and games to keep citizens content with Imperial decisions, which is where we get the phrase "bread and circuses" from) and doublespeak (try to find William Lutz's The New Doublespeak, about how ambiguous or ponderous language and catchy slogans can be used to mislead, confuse, or wholly order society around).
I think the problem was politics and the fact that he overestimated his own strength. Roy became slowly hypnotized by the Neo-Cons (through appealing to his early findings, projecting the relationship between dominant predators and submissive parasites onto the relationship between a government and it's people). He became convinced of the typical presentations of Socialism (Stalinist fascism) as a dictatorship that destroys good men and cultivates weak, submissive men to depend on and be lorded over by it (even though many, like Trotsky, and especially the works of Rosa Luxemburg where much against this type of government, wanting a rule by majority where the people are the state. See: [1]). I must note, it is this hatred towards necessities like welfare (which is also in the Torah, particularly concerning tiths, see [2], H’Neviim, exemplified in Isaiah, and especially in the synoptics, See:Beatitudes, coincidentally) that shows Roy to be himself brainwashed about socio-economic issues. Along the way, it has seemed that Roy Masters has also been lured by greed (read Roy Masters.com articles on welfare hypocrisy and demands for contributions), abusing his dominant role as teacher to guilt people into sending donations. One could suspect that Roy has been sent astray by ignoring the basic tenant of Christianity, being that mankind is inheritantly and often inevitably fallible. Roy, having ignored this, has bitten more then he can chew and now is stuck in a mess (pride keeps him there).
I see him as a tragic case, a man who stumbled on great truths about society and spirituality, only to be trapped by the enemy anyway. I cannot fully seperate myself from his observations, nor can I wholly agree with him on political/economic issues (especially since, if one where to use his aproach, then a new Depression would be ushered in due to low sales because people would not longer need anything. Capitalism would collapse under Roy's lifestyle), thus a tool for dominant social-darwinistic predators he claims to be against. Capitalism is just as much a dominant-submissive co-dependancy as Socialism, if not by default. This is why Lynden LaRouche attracted me (he is socially conservative and even sees the spiritual/ideological bases for human mysery, yet he recognises the nececity for welfare and social programes).
Despite his short comings, I feel indebted to him.
Ideocentric Roybot (AKA: "Dave", AKA: [69.248.43.27])
[edit] POV from article
(this would be a naive view, given that a capitalist economy relies wholly on the dependency of the consumer and the industrialist, which his philosophy seeks to end, the result of which, if successful, would lead to economic depression, nor do all forms of socialism need depend on dictators as allowed in Lennin's Democratic Centralist model. See: Rosa Luxemburg).
Ultimately, however, Roy Masters does not consider any social structure good, society itself a symptem of post-fall dependancy and resentment, and if taken to extremes, Roy Masters' world view endorses a form anarchism, with any social contact or exchange being a sign of degeneracy.
- The above can be reinserted if reworded and sourced. Sam Spade 13:55, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Roy's Music Selection
Does anybody think it worth to mention his musical and film tastes. It is very apparent when listening to his show that he really likes the 80's (he has a particular fondness for Toto, Tears for Fears' Everybody Wants to Rule the World and Vangelis). He has played a U2 song ("With or without you"), and the X Files theme. He is remembered for playing an ABBA song I Have a Dream. Besides The Matrix, he also seemed to like The Edge (film) with Anthony Hopkins, The Devil's Advocate whith Al Pacino and Keanu Reeves, and the Star Wars Trilogy. 69.248.43.27 03:16, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
Roy Masters DESPISES ALL MUSIC. He has said it over a hundred times on his program. "All Music Is Mind Control" is a statement he has made many, many times. Regardless of whether it is classical, pop or polka music, he believes that music separates you from your stream of thought and distracts you. The ONLY reason there was music for a short time was that his producers felt it would give a softer edge to his program. However, as his show was not licensed to play music by ASCAP and BMI, he had to stop playing familiar songs and go to a package of canned instrumental music for radio transitions.
"I see all Conservatives have basically one mind."
- Yeah, with an IQ of 60!
[edit] Quotes Citations
Bennie Noakes does not make the final determination as to what is a reliable source.
When a web site written by somebody: who has tape recordings of all quotes, was present when many of the quotes were made and has numerous former employees to back up every single one--it is reliable.
- Again, you're expecting me to take your word for it. How do I know that this person has "tape recordings of all quotes"? Now, if there were audio files, that might make it a much better source. As it stands, though, this is a site which is heavily biased against Mr. Masters, with very short quotes. It could easily be argued these were taken out of context.
See also Wikipedia:Verifiability#Sources_of_dubious_reliability:
Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, and then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources.
I think an angry anti-Masters site should be unacceptable as a source for the Masters article. ---Bennie Noakes 17:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
How do you take "All Women Are Whores" out of context? Is it really necessary to include the two lines that went before and the two lines that went afterwards?
Bennie Noakes is a ROYBOT (a brainwashed follower of Roy Masters' cult) who cannot handle seeing ACTUAL QUOTES made by Roy Masters featured in the article.
Roy Masters has spent 46 years making sensational and inflammatory statements so people will tune into his radio show. He does it every night.
It is not being unreasonable to include the man's own statements in an article.
Especially when there are taped copies of all of them; people who worked there when they were stated have verified them all; a man who was employed by Masters for his in-depth knowledge and ability to do extensive research has compiled them all.
- I'm sorry, but I disagree, and so does Wikipedia policy (see link above). Can you provide proof that Masters said those things? If you cannot, then they should, in fact MUST, be taken down. As I've said before, an anti-Masters site, which itself does not provide sources, shouldn't be used as a source. Please read up on the relevant Wikipedia policies. ---Bennie Noakes 03:20, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Statements Made By Roy Masters On the Radio
By publishing the quotes on a web site (www.roymasters.com), the webmaster maintains all legal qualifications required that they are genuine. They have been further validated by numerous former employees of the Masters' radio operations.
Bennie Noakes is a brainwashed Roy Masters cult follower who cannot handle seeing the truth.
- Are you saying that just because it appears on a website, that makes it true? What if I make a website that says that yours is bunk? What makes you think that I'm brainwashed, or that I follow Masters? ---Bennie Noakes 05:15, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
As a professional broadcaster and journalist, by putting up a website with quotes, I am legally mandating to the public that everything with quotes around it is true and accurate. I am very aware of libel laws. I am guaranteeing the public which can be held up in a court of law that all quotes are statements meeting combinations of the following: personally heard, have recorded, have transcribed, have been further verified by others who were present when they were broadcast.
- If you really have tape recordings of all these statements, as you say, why don't you make audio files of them? This would back up your claims, be a service to the Internet community, and be a lot more productive than wasting your time in an edit war with me. ---Bennie Noakes 17:25, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
We apologize for brainwashed cult follower Bennie Noakes who continues to vandalize the article by removing quotes which have been recorded, transcribed and verified by numerous former employees of the Masters operation.
Hello, I don't know if I am doing this correctly, but If Roy hates women and gays, you should just quote from many of his books, or let me hear the tape, frankly I don't beleive you.... but it is obvious to everyone that you are a hater, anyone can call names, without any evidence... I don't know who roy masters is, but if you call someone a woman hater, and gay hater, you had better show some evidence, and you haven't. 24.10.215.67 03:53, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
The above statement was written by Bennie Noakes who is trying to pretend that he is somebody else merely assessing the situation. We know because his i.p. number is exactly the same one that shows up in the most current VANDALIZING AND EDITING of the article! "I don't know who Roy Masters is" he claims here...showing you that we are dealing with a sick liar.
Hello, this is the above writer again, who does not know who roy masters is... my name is Jason Clark I live in Utah, and I don't know who you are or who Noakes is. I wrote the above not "Noakes", check the ip address. And you will see, and instead of calling others haters, and liars, maybe you should look in the mirror.
Hello, this is the above writer again, who does not know who roy masters is... my name is Jason Clark I live in Utah, and I don't know who you are or who Noakes is. I wrote the above not "Noakes", check the ip address. And you will see, and instead of calling others haters, and liars, maybe you should look in the mirror. 24.10.215.67 15:54, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
- This guy (apparently the webmaster for roymasters.com) delights in making unfounded accusations, such as you being me, and me being some sort of brainwashed Masters follower. It seems he likes to make stuff up, and yet he wants us to believe that everything on his website is 100% true. ---Bennie Noakes 17:26, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
17:26, 16 July 2006 (UTC) WIKIPEDIA wishes to apologize that a deranged user named Bennie Noakes who is a brainwashed Masters' cult follower, continues to VANDALIZE this article by removing quotes which have been recorded, transcribed and verified by former employees of the radio operation.
- Pretending to be Wikipedia administration, and then deleting comments. Wow, that's pretty low. ---Bennie Noakes 18:56, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
This is Bennie Noakes. Apparently it's OK for me to delete complete portions of articles because I know better than everybody else. And I must. I am a brainwashed cult follower of Roy Masters.
Why is this guy pretending to be Wikipedia authorities? Isn't this breaking the rules of Wikipedia, to claim your a wikipedia administrator when you are not? Shouldn't there be some kind of punishment by Wikipedia, to have someone claim to be the police when they are not? maybe a revoke of their ability to use the site.... Surely when someone claims authority that they don't have, in order to mislead, this is very serious.... I have no knowledge of this subject matter, I have made no edits, I just don't like the personal attacks on Roy Masters, if there is no proof. Fine, I don't care if he is or isn't a woman hater, or a man hater, or a homosexual hater, I just think, If you are going to claim this misogyny, and homophobia of someone, you had better have some proof. Roy has written hundreds of books and articles, surely if he does hate women, you can point to a book and page and quote, that makes it clear to us. Otherwise stop calling names, bringing personal attacks into wikipedia. I think it is obvious to everyone that this individual has a personal grudge against Roy Masters for some reason. Though he may have a legitimate grievance against Roy. It is not wikipedia policy to let personal feelings control the biography of someone else. Jason C.
Hi. This is Jason Clark again. I should add that I live in a small community in Utah where we practice polygamy and I personally have 20-40 wives. Let me tell you--that beats 99 virgins in heaven for performing Islamic terrorist-suicide acts anyday! Our way of life is perfectly matched with the teachings of Roy Masters, so I have a compelling need to defend my guru. Could somebody send me a few Playstations or X-boxes? These 69 kids I have are driving me crazy!
[edit] Reverts
I have reverted this article to a previous version because the addition to article was not encyclopedic, and the edit summary bordered on breaking the policy No Personal Attacks. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information (including section 2: Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics such as quotations, aphorisms, or persons (real or fictional). If you want to enter lists of quotations, put them into our sister project Wikiquote. Of course, there is nothing wrong with having lists if their entries are famous because they are associated with or significantly contributed to the list topic, for example Nixon's Enemies List. Wikipedia also includes reference tables and tabular information for quick reference.). User:67.150.5.117, please read the polices WP:NPA, WP:CIVILITY, WP:NPOV, WP:VERIFY, WP:NOR, and WP:AGF. Thanks, —TheJC (Talk • Contribs • Count) 19:26, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Semi-protection of this page
This page is currently semi-protected for 24 hours or so in order to enforce a cooling-off period on the editing.
Changes requested by new and anonymous users should be placed below this message for addition by neutral longer-standing editors.
I will now watchlist this page. After 24 hours, I plan to remove the protection. Unsourced additions to this article, especially if they go against Wikipedia policy on neutral point of view editing after this time will be reverted and the page will be subject to protection again.
If you plan to complain: please note I have not edited this article, have no knowledge of the subject matter and no interest in the subject itself. Edit wars are bad - that's my only guide.
I would request that everybody - and I mean everybody - involved in the editing of this article tries to keep to WP:1RR and edits harmoniously. Discussing edits on the the talk page before making them is A Good Thing.
Thank you all for your understanding and I apologies for the inconvenience this action will cause to new and anonymous editors. ➨ ЯEDVERS 19:46, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Citations & Editing
This article needs citations. There's just tons of claims and some references on the end, but no linkage between the two (which claim comes from which source). And no, your frothing-at-the-mouth, anti-Masters webpage cannot be considered an objective source!
Another problem is that it reads like a back-and-forth between people who hate Masters and his fans/apologists, with some damning quotations thrown in. Obviously, if you want to record every controversial thing a talk show host says, there's no limit to the size of the article. ("Wow! I can't believe he said that! It's going up on Wikipedia...")
I would like to do some aggressive editing, with the help of 67.150.* But instead of trying to hear me out (or, heaven forbid, reading policy) he childishly keeps reverting everything I do. I can't even communicate with him properly, since he refuses to register! Bennie Noakes 17:15, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Bennie Noakes has again VANDALIZED and REMOVED material from this article. Material which comes DIRECTLY from Roy Masters' OWN OFFICIAL WEB SITE. Can't get any more OFFICIAL then material which is CITED AND REFERENCED from the man's OWN WEB SITE in which he elaborates on his points of view and perspective. Bennie Noakes is a brainwashed Roy Masters' follower that cannot stand seeing his cult leader presented in his own words! Bennie Noakes needs to be banned from accessing this article.
- Yo anon above: I will stub this article, as it contains numerous assertions of fact without any citations. Once you find direct citations from reliable sources, youmay re-add the material. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 23:45, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- What material are you referring to? The only stuff I removed were all those lengthy quotations you like to post. ---Bennie Noakes 18:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Who the hell are you talking to? As usual, your thinking is confused. This moron named Jossi is the one who decided that this article should now be on a Kindergarten level.
- I'm replying to you, of course. My comment is below Jossi's, but has the same indent, therefore I am replying to you. (Also, you can sign your comments with four tildes ~ to identify yourself. This makes it easier for people reading this.)---Bennie Noakes 18:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm a real idiot.
[edit] Transcripts
Quoting directly from transcrtipts made by an editor or a not reputable source, fail the WP:V policy. Editors may summarize the quotes, but not cite directly in between quotes. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 23:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
