Talk:Rolex

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[edit] Criticism

- I've reverted to the version of criticism from which people had removed some citations, then added some more.


This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Watches, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of watches. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.

A lot of this seems to be text from advertising. Check out the very last sentence for an example.

Is all that bold formatting necessary? I don't like it... TastyCakes 21:53, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

It isn't. I'll remove it.--Shanel 19:24, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

I have edited the part on the gas valve, which is actually a "helium release valve". Rolex and Doxa S.A. were the co-inventors of this valve, first commercial watch with the valve was actually the Doxa Conquistidor in 1969, followed by the Rolex in 71. This is from the recent article about Doxa in the WatchTime magazine and confirmed in other places, I think its on the Doxa website along with the patent that lists both Doxa and Rolex. edit-- signature Lgreen 16:36, 23 December 2005 (UTC)



I find this quite incredible (in both senses of the word). A pressure of 108.6 MPa exists at the bottom of the Mariana Trench. Statements like this needs proper references to stay in a factual document.

"Wilsdorf even went so far as to have a specially made Rolex watch attached to the side of the Trieste bathyscaphe, which went to the bottom of the Mariana Trench. The watch survived and tested as having kept perfect time during its descent and ascent."


I added a reference to an article on the Rolex "Deep Sea Special", but this event is also referenced on rolex.com 216.18.38.241 19:54, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fake Rolex

It's a fascinating subtopic that could be expanded upon. Travelling the globe, I have seen so many on sale. The fakes are even rated by grades replete with elaborate, slick catalogues and brochures printed for the vendors, with South Korea & China apparently producing some of the highest level "reproductions." These are sometimes called class-A reproductions and are so thoroughly and well-made that its nearly impossible to tell a fake even if one were taken apart. So the name Rolex, then, can apparently be worth 12,000 dollars---minus the 20 Euros one finds them selling for in Italy. . . . Fascinating topic keepable under the Rolex article heading: imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and 75% of fakes are Rolex!

[edit] Fake Rolex Made in?

Most good quality fake rolex are made in japan, not only made in china. Most Hong Kong and Macau watch factories already moved to Mainland China, how they made fake? Japanese also make fake product, not only chinese. COMPLETELY BIAS, please in google search "Japan made Rolex replicas" for details. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.86.164.72 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Picture gallery?

I have added a Rolex picture gallery several times. Why has it been removed? Been trying to add http://www.newturfers.com/bin/mwf/board_show.pl?bid=29

Added again and removed again!

[edit] Picture gallery?

What you posted is not a picture gallery, simple a forum where people post pictures.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.183.61.29 (talk • contribs) .

And the difference is? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.183.27.41 (talk • contribs) .

The difference is that you are spamming wikipedia with links to your own forums to drive traffic.

Spamming wikipedia to drive traffic? The page has photos of Rolexes for god's sake. Isnt that what external links are about? I never thought wikipedia would feel threatened by a website that features people posting pictures of their own watches! It's incomprehensible!

haha, looks like I am not the only one who thinks your link is spam. Another person removed your link as spam also.

Keep removing it. I'll keep adding it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.160.21.205 (talk • contribs) .

Please don't. It is spam. if you keep adding it you will be blocked from editing all Wikipedia articles. Gwernol 12:18, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok. I will not refuse a polite request as above.

Please ban this guy 59.160.21.205. It's at least the 5th time he did this to advertise his stupid forum.

Ban me if you like. I really dont care. But if you want to get your message across it's best that you exercise a degree of politeness. Name calling is so 5th grade.

[edit] Who is the genius who...

...wrote the criticism section? Whoever it is doesnt know swat about watches! I mean what kind of a bafoon compares mechanical with quartz??? Pears and apples anyone??? Seems to have been written by someone who has an issue with Rolex! lutherian 06:09, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Comparing mechanical with Quartz is like comparing a ferrari to a fiat Uno. The argument being that fiat consumes less petrol.

I wouldn't necessarily agree, while the author didn't have the best examples, some of his points were close to the mark. I am somewhat upset that the section was removed, hopefully the forum is opened again and someone will contribute a better criticsm of the brand.

[edit] Criticism section removed

There is absolutely no need for this, none of the other brand references in wiki contains a criticism section so this entry is totally impartial and POV. lutherian 09:14, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry but that's not true. Without defending this particular section (which is poor) there are plenty of other Wiki articles that contain criticism sections, for example Nike, Inc., Pepsi and Microsoft. It is legitimate to include a criticism section where one applies, as long as it is verifiable from reliable sources. I am restoring the section to this article since something is required to present a balanced view of Rolex. Gwernol 12:23, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
I meant watch brand, how come Rolex is the only one that is criticized, this is obviously a smear campaign and nothing else because the contents of the criticism is illogical and absurd, making comparisons with quartz movements! I totally disagree with you on this! lutherian 14:54, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, it is not obviously a smear campaign, and no you did not mention watches: "none of the other brand references in wiki contains a criticism section" right above. It is absolutely valid to have a criticism section. I agree with you that there are serious problems with the text as it stands (which is why I've removed the worst claims and added {{fact}} tags to others) but the solution is to improve the section, not excise it completely. That amounts to sweeping criticism under the rug and is enforcing a point of view. Sorry, Gwernol 15:00, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
To expand, there is a reason why Rolex alone amongst watch brands would have a criticisms section. It is such a well-known brand and the prices for its watches are so extravegant that it is bound to attract more direct criticism than other brands do. Let's work to improve the section and ensure it is fair and well sourced instead of just removing it. Gwernol 15:12, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes I did mention watches, look at the edit summary in the article. As for the prices, I beg to differ, there are many other watch brands out there that sell for similar prices and yet there doesnt seem to be any criticism. Take AP as an example! Anyways, im not going to go into a petty revert war with you suffice it to say that leaving a section devoted to trashy criticism is nothing but pure POV, and I dont believe that you are indifferent to this particular brand! lutherian 16:44, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Please see WP:NPA, which your last sentence breaches: I have no interest in Rolex, don't own one and don't have any opinion about whether they are good value or not. I am merely interested in ensuring the article maintains a neutral point of view. Simply denying that criticism exists is a bad idea - it does exist and should be included in the article. Gwernol 16:50, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
what are you referring to? the fact that I called the contents of the criticism section trashy (which I very much belive it is) or that I get the impression that you are not indifferent to the Rolex brand. Either of these statements of mine can hardly be considered a personal attack, I suggest you revisit the definition.
Also, it seems that others agree with me with regards to removing the criticism section. If you want we can submit this issue to arbitration, I have no problems whatsoever! Cheers lutherian 18:18, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
I was referring to your statement that I had a personal agenda related to Rolex. That is an attack on my intentions rather than a discussion of my actions. Please refrain from such comments, they are unfounded. I am not going to continue reverting the section back; I think its a shame that editors of this article will not allow criticisms of Rolex since some of them have validity and are documented. This is the opposite of encyclopedia writing. Gwernol 18:29, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Relax, I never said that you had a personal agenda, it was an impression I have and as such does not constitute a peronal attack! I agree with you that Rolex is not a perfect company (far from it), but what I find totally unacceptable is that someone decides to target this one watch brand. If there was a criticism section for all the other watch brands on wiki and if they were fair (unlike the rubbish on this one), I would be a happy camper! Furthermore, I think its a good idea that you put the neutrality tag (although i dont agree with your motive) and I would in fact add another tag on the incompleteness of this article! Cheers lutherian 18:50, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Criticisms aren't being "suppressed" as your checkin comment states when you added the POV tag. I removed this section because Criticism sections are supposed to be well cited. Not only were there very few cites in this section, it was written terribly (spelling errors, grammar errors, etc). An article's criticisms section is supposed to reflect well documented and cited criticisms -- not someone's own personal editorial. The paragraph I removed reflected the latter. As to Lutherian -- what other articles have or do not have is irrelavant here. If you have well-documented criticisms of other watch brands, please add them to their appropriate articles. As all articles are a work-in-progress, such comparaisons are not relavant. Instead, we just look at Wikipedia policy. Such policies as WP:POV state that we need to show all sides. But WP:NOR state that facts, especially controvertial ones, need to be well cited. It was for the latter reason, as well as the unencyclopedic tone and writing style, that I removed the criticisms paragraph. If a proper, well-written and (most importantly) well-cited one is added to the article, I will support its inclusion. --Rehcsif 19:22, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures?

How can I post a picture of my Rolex watch?

I think that this section deserves photos of real Rolexes as opposed to just that fake.

I own 4 of them and can post personal photos of them. The Yacht master in Platinum, Submariner in Steel and TT ( Steel and Gold) and the GMT master II

I don't know how you can post pictures but if you find out, you definitely should post them. People should be able to see the true beauty of a genuine Rolex watch rather than the cheap fake one currently posted in the article. To anyone who knows, please post pictures of genuine Rolex watches in the article.
If you took the pictures, just click the "Upload File" link to the left of your screen. Select an appropriate license (I usually use the GFDL/CC combo) and then add an image link in this article to point to your new image (use the existing one as a guideline. There's probably a WP page on how to do this but I'm too lazy to look it up now. --Rehcsif 14:01, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I have uploaded a pic of my YM ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:P1010380.JPG) . Someone please format it properly. I just cant figure it out

Done with the code [[Image:P1010380.JPG|thumb|right|Rolex Yachtmaster]]. --GraemeL (talk) 12:35, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Oh, I added the text "Rolex Watchmaster" as the image title as that was the only description on the image itself. Feel free to expand it to give some more information. --GraemeL (talk) 12:45, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please remove Rolex replicas section

I pointed out before, not only taiwan and china made fake rolex. but some PEOPLE edit this and wrote Only Chinese make fake rolex. Does it mean wikipedia is full of Racism? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 218.190.198.135 (talk • contribs) .

It says they are MAINLY made in Taiwan and China, and that statement is flagged as fact. Nowhere in the article does it say "only chinese make fake rolex". Please read carefully before challenging statements. --Rehcsif 19:27, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Suhailb (talk • contribs) .

I now see that my Yachtmaster picture is up for deletion. Why?

[edit] Removed POV tag

I removed the POV tag. It was added the other day by Gwernol in response to the criticisms section being removed. But as I pointed out above, Criticisms are welcome -- it's just that nobody has come up with any VERIFYABLE/CITABLE criticisms. Personal essays on why you think Rolex's are a rip-off are not encyclopedic and a violation of WP:NOR. I see no need to clutter the article with a POV tag when the reasons for the section's removal had nothing to do with POV. --Rehcsif 19:03, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rolex "linkspam"

While many of the external links in the Rolex section might very well be linkspam, not all are. To delete the hubpages.com link, which has the most comprehensive information on Rolex models I've seen on the Web, seems really excessive. There are reviews on all the current, plus plenty of classic models, plus history about the company. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.92.0.17 (talk • contribs) .

The problem with a link like http://hubpages.com/hub/Rolex_Watches is two-fold:
  1. It really is a link promoting one person, or at least, one person's view of the Rolex world. Wiki strongly discourages promotional links.
  2. Allowing in one link like this opens the door to many, many other links that are "just a little bit promotional".
Now, either of these wouldn't necessarily be a problem with an article about some obscure area, say polymerase chain reaction where the whole universe of links, self-promotional or not is probably a dozen or so. But it is a problem for a popular topic like Rolex, where everyone and their brother comes along and tries to stick their blatantly self-promotional link in from time to time.
Because of this, I know that I try to keep a much tighter rein on linkspam in articles like Rolex (or Hot tub, to give another example) than I would on PCR. Obviously, though, we work by consensus here so I don't have the last say and I welcome everyone else's opinion on this too.
Atlant 20:20, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree. The author is sharing extensive information and subjective feedback about his passion, but he is not after establishing a name for himself. He doesn't mention himself or anything about himself besides a brief bio. I happen to know the author quite closely, and he is just an enthusiast who has spent a lot of time putting together this resource, which he wanted to share with a broader audience of kindred spirits. He was thrilled when I put in a link for it on Wikipedia, since he's a huge fan of the site and uses it a lot.

The fact is, topics like Rolex or, I guess, hot tubs, are going to have a bigger following of dedicated enthusiasts, than something like PCR (all due respect to the scientists out there, naturally). And, his collection of articles does include reviews of many models that Wikipedia doesn't even have articles for. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.92.0.17 (talk • contribs) .

I'll wait for other opinions. By the way, please sign your posts to "talk" pages. You can easily do this by including four tildes (~~~~) after your text. When you press (Save page), these will be replaced by your username (or, for you, IP address) in a handy Wikilinked format. A timestamp will also be included.
Atlant 14:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good--thank you for the tip. I'm completely new to this part of the Wikipedia process. Thank you. 66.92.0.17 00:19, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm the poster who deleted your links. I did so because after checking your contributions, I noticed that you inserted hubpages.com links into several articles. Don't spam. Exeunt 00:52, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Point taken and it won't happen any more. Again, I'm new to this; I understand there has to be some control over what gets included and what doesn't. I would just argue that this particular link is useful and provides a lot of complementary information for people researching the topic of Rolex. 66.92.0.17 01:20, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I did check out the link before deleting it. In all, I found it well-written and informative. However, the fact that there were ads plastered all over the site put me off. This fact alone wouldn't have compelled me to delete your link, but in conjunction with your other external link insertions, I became suspicious of spam. Feel free to reinsert the link--you seem well-intentioned.Exeunt 18:57, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Exeunt and Atlant. James let me know that he'll continue to add data in the reviews to flesh them out a bit, too. 66.92.0.17 17:21, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Gwernol removed the link early yesterday with a standardized message to not put external spam links. I tried contacting him using the talk function but have yet to hear a reply. Was that an automated action by a bot? Can I put the link back up? Thank you. 66.92.0.17 23:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Sweep" second hand

From http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=2277&rid=0:

A sweep second hand is one that is mounted in the center of the dial and sweeps over the entire face. This is in contrast to a "seconds sub-dial" that is typically at 6 o'clock (AKA "6-eater"). A sweep second hand can be on a quartz or mechanical movement--it does not say anything about whether it ticks once a second or more smoothly. Okay, this isn't a FAQ but rather the maintainer's pet peeve but many newbies misuse the term. Don't believe me? Look it up in the dictionary. 216.18.38.241 15:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rolex Reference Page

The Rolex Reference Page would be a good add to the external links - www.rolexreferencepage.com

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