Talk:Rogue (computer game)

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[edit] Neutrality

Although this article is written with pretty professional quality, it's clear that it just isn't very neutral. As of now it reads more like a mashup of a rewiew and a summary than an encyclopedia article. Any ideas how to fix this? Robot Chicken 03:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ports

"Later verions replaced the characters with graphical tiles, but the gameplay remained the same." -- any details about which version of rogue this refers to? The linked article does mention ports to other platforms from the original Unix.

It was ported to the Mac and Amiga by Epyx. These versions used graphics. Epyx also did the PC version, which used ASCII characters like the original, but in color. I think they also did an Apple II version—perhaps even Commodore 64 and Atari 800 versions. —Frecklefoot 15:38 11 Jul 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Source code

The linked article also says the sourcecode of the original was never released. I found on the net a file rogue36.zip which contains rog36.tar.Z which has the source files, the most recent timestamp is Mar 8, 1987. Most files are dated Sep 24 1982 and have headers such as: * @(#)move.c 3.26 (Berkeley) 6/15/81 so maybe this is one of the original versions.

Yes, the original version was released with the Berkeley version of Unix, so it's been around for a while. I didn't see a reference to the source code not being released, so I assume you nixed it. —Frecklefoot 15:38 11 Jul 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Screenshot

This article would really benefit from a screenshot. Anyone have access to the original Unix version (comes with Berkeley distributions)? That would be the preferable version to have a screenshot from. Even one of the original ports would be preferable to one of the numerous freeware ports floating around (to avoid "advertising"). —Frecklefoot 15:34, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Monsters

It would be interesting to list the names of all 26 monsters... --[[User:AllyUnion|AllyUnion (talk)]] 10:30, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

see below for list of monsters

also, i've lost track of the number of times i've been killed by trolls. Gringo300 19:57, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wizard's password

does anyone on here by any chance know what the wizard's password is?

First off, sign your posts. Do this with 3 or 4 tildes (~~~ or ~~~~). The latter is preferred, since it also adds a timestamp.
To answer your question, it depends on what version of Rogue you are playing. — Frecklefoot | Talk 20:45, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)

i've long been curious: what exactly does the wizard's password do? Gringo300 03:07, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)


The wizard's password gives you God mode in rogue - you get to create anything you want. You can get it by decoding rogue in binary. 128.139.226.37 1 July 2005 20:06 (UTC)

ok... how do you decode rogue in binary? Gringo300 14:17, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

now i know that in certain online versions of rogue, you don't have to have the wizard's password to become a wizard. Gringo300 13:33, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Screenshot

I'm glad this article finally has a screenshot, but I object to it since it's in color. One of the defining aspects of Rogue is that it was originally in B&W. See the example screen on Roguelike for an example of what I think would be preferable. Just my $.02...— Frecklefoot | Talk 18:41, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

Although I played many a game of Rogue back in those days (an 11/750 makes a really nice personal playstation), I can't actually say for sure if the game supported color or not, since none of our terminals did. When I first fired up Rogue Clone on my Mac, my first thought was exactly the same, "Color!? This isn't right!". But you get used to it :-) It still sucks to get teleported into a room where you're immediately frozen by an ice monster and killed by a bat before you can get yourself unfrozen. --RoySmith 19:44, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I may have misspoken. I don't know if the original Unix version of Rogue had color support or not, though I doubt it did (most users probably only had green CRTs anyway). But the original ports of Rogue (by the original authors of the game) for the Amiga, DOS, etc. were in color (the original Mac version was monochrone, but so was the Mac). But most ports/clones made today are in B&W, so... who knows? It still would be nice to have a screengrab of the game being played on a green monitor from "the olden days." :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:56, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] monster list

in at least some versions: aquators, bats, centaurs, dragons, emus, (venus) flytraps, griffins, hobgoblins, ice monsters, jabberwocks, kestrels, leprechauns, medusas, nymphs, orcs, phantoms, quaggas, rattlesnakes, snakes, trolls, urviles, vampires, wraiths, xerocs, yetis, and zombies.

i've always been curious as to why snakes and rattlesnakes are presented as distinct creatures. that's like "dogs AND doberman pincers". Gringo300 03:46, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

-I'm not sure, but I think the original version had a monster called Slime instead of snake, the moved slowly, and replicated from time to time. Maybe they took it out because it was to difficult to defeat in the beginning. 128.139.226.37

[edit] Ur-vile?

Question: What is an ur-vile? --129.123.26.8

It's a monster from Rogue. Why do you ask? — Frecklefoot | Talk 21:18, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
Is it a reference to Stephen Donaldson's Thomas Covenant books? It's the only other place I've ever found an "ur-vile". 210.211.95.16 17:16, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
In all the versions of Rogue I've played, U is a Black Unicorn. Nasty beasts, the next big step up from Trolls, and the worst thing you're going to meet short of a Dragon. --RoySmith 17:30, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
Including Griffins? 128.139.226.34 20:09, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Commercial Variants of Rogue in Japan?

In 1991, there is "Fatal Labyrinth" (Genesis/Megadrive, 1991) which could be considered as the first commercial variants of Rogue (because it took a lot of ideas from rogue with some extra features) but it's not so good and successful.

"Fushigi no Dungeon" series (starting from "Torneko no Daibouken" in 1993) themself are the most successful titles in Japan and start the trend of Japanese console roguelike games.

"Fushigi no Dungeon have much tighter game balance, so that the challenge level is just right. Some role playing games (such as Climax Landers and Evolution) have also imported some roguelike concepts (primarily the randomly generated dungeon), but honestly not to any satisfactory effect, since the randomly generated dungeon plays little significance if battles take part in a different environment (namely, the orthodox RPG combat engine). Without its effect on playability, a randomly generated dungeon would in fact feel featureless and boring." - interesting review from GameFAQs

How they can be the variants of rogue? - Feature one class which is warrior-type or Jack-of-all-trades. Supernatural powers are rely on items. - Simple stats. - Dungeon theme is a lot like rogue. - Item sets like Potion, Wand (or rod), and Scroll. "Furai no Shiren" also add Pots which are work as containers or item manipulating tools. - ETC.

Just some thought and review... -- Indego

Anything but Rogue is not Rogue. What you are describing is one of the many roguelikes, which we have an entire article on. — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:07, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] About Rodney

According to an interview with Glenn Wichman (http://home.arcor.de/cybergoth/gamesc/rogueinterview.html)

"We envsioned Rodney (the character you play, represented by the @) as kind of a goofy loser, not a brave warrior. I had done a series of pen-and-ink illustrations of Rodney and all of Rogue's monsters for use in the manual, but Epyx wouldn't use them because they were too cartoony."

I think he is an original protagonist in this game which is less known (or it's just the name?) but can be interesting if we know more about him. (Do any one think about that?)

At least his favorite fruit (well, it's not a real fruit) is slime mold... eh? (might be not because in dungeon of doom he has only two choice... food or slime mold.)

Alto

Thanks for contributing. The correct way to sign your name is with 3 or 4 tildes (~~~ or ~~~~). It works even if you don't have an account. The latter form is preferred since it also leaves a timestamp. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 22:33, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] What's wrong with the 1980s?

I had the 1980s wikilinked in the article (like this 1980s). I thought it was appropriate since we have a whole article on it. A user just unwikilinked it and cited WP:DATE as the reason for changing it. I read the whole page and didn't find anything that said not to wikilink eras. What specific policy does this violate? — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:47, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Frecklefoot, I just read through WP:DATE and I don't know why Cyde would have removed the internal links. I've reverted the changes.Pixelface 00:57, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Upon closer inspection, in the WP:DATE#Partial_dates Partial dates section it says:

There is consensus among editors that bare month and day names should not be linked unless there is a specific reason that the link will help the reader to understand the article. There is less agreement about links to years. Some editors believe that links to years are generally useful to establish context for the article. Others believe that links to years are rarely useful to the reader and reduce the readability of the text.

Above it also says "Wikipedians are not required to follow any of these rules."

I don't think the links to 1980 and 1980s reduce the readability of the text, so I've left them in.Pixelface 01:04, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Diablo?

Don't the Diablo games qualify as Roguelikes? They may be more advanced and have slightly different gameplay but the legacy is clearly there.

See the discussion here. — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:03, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Suggestion - add SDF

All, I added the below and Frecklefoot removed it saying it was spam. I argued it wasn't and he suggested I bring it to everyone's attention. Here it is:

Should that or a reworded version be added? I say yes, and here's why:

From what I can see, the existing links have lot's of info on Rogue or on downloading Rogue but none on actually playing the game immediately. The site I am suggesting would allow that. You just have to sign up for a free account first. Now we are talking about Rogue. Rogue was a game created by guys hacking around on the computer, hacking in the good sense. They had access to a UNIX system and they created Rogue. Does anyone doubt such people would encourage others to get access to a UNIX system, learn its ins and outs, and perhaps accomplish something? Well the site I suggested allows just that, and I think the Rogue creators would be happy to see on this wiki page a link to a resource that give them the start they also needed so long ago. And the site I am recommending is not spam and does not spam you. It is a well known, long existing public access UNIX box for educational purposes. It even has its own wiki page to learn more about it. So while it's true you first have to get an account to play Rogue, 1) you can play Rogue right away, 2) you get free access to a UNIX account on a UNIX system, and 3) games like Rogue are intended or created as teaching tools and so is the free account at the web site I am recommended; such a link is totally in the spirit of people helping others to learn UNIX. For these reasons and others, I would like to see the above link included as an external link. What say you all? --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling 03:30, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I already gave my feedback on my Talk page, but here it is again for this discussion. I refute all your points:
  1. You can't play Rogue right away; you can right after you sign up for an account.
  2. Unix isn't really the point of this article.
  3. Rogue was not created as a teaching tool, it was created as entertainment. Through creating it, the programmers developed some new paradigms in game design, but there isn't really anything in Rogue that "teaches" or attempts to help users learn Unix. It was created specifically for entertainment. Plus, there are official ports of Rogue to other systems that don't closely resemble Unix.
And, lastly, I don't really think we can guess what the original authors would "want." I doubt they even care if others learn Unix (but, again, I can't really guess what they want). But our articles aren't written to please the subjects of the articles, but just to relay the facts. If something we say in one of our articles displeases the subject, that's too bad. If it please them, great. But pleasing the subjects isn't our goal.
To sum up, Unix isn't really the point of the article. The link is to get a Unix account, which is only marginally related to the subject of the article. Just my $.02... — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:05, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
K, thx. I see your point. Let's see what others say. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling 15:17, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Frecklefoot; the link is far too tangential to the subject of Rogue. In any case, there are already two links in the article that allow people to play Rogue right away, without signing up for an account: the first two under "Ports, clones, and remakes." —Celithemis
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