Talk:Ricky Ponting

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[edit] NPOV breaches

"(He also assaulted a bar manager in Kolkata while on tour in 1998, after being ejected for exposing his groin towards an unwilling female patron)"
Seems to be added in a random place in the acticle. There are 4 off-field incidents mentioned in this article, none of them well placed. They need to be tidied up, and with some references. No references, then removed. I've never heard about 'exposing his groin towards an unwilling female patron' incident.
-- CraigKeogh 08:06, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

"Ponting was surpisingly promoted to captain, ahead of Gilchrist"
This should be removed (Neutral point of view). Give the reader the facts, and they can make up their own mind if it was 'surpisingly' or not.
-- CraigKeogh 08:06, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

"Gilchrist however, walked, and was subsequently removed of the test vice-captaincy after the World Cup, in favour of Ponting, although the reason for this was not disclosed by Cricket Australia."
The reason was not disclosed by Cricket Australia, so 'subsequently removed' is your point of view. Article should be neutral.
-- CraigKeogh 08:06, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

- The text you refer to was all added by an anon editor about eight days ago this diff. I don't think anyone would mind if you removed it Sam Vimes 13:02, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
  - Done -- CraigKeogh 04:12, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Ponting was not VC in 2000. Warne was stripped of VC after 2000 SMS saga and replaced with Gilchrist. When Waugh was sacked, Gilchrist was first in line and Ponting got the jump. At the time, most commentators were surprised. Blnguyen 06:15, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

The paragraph on Ponting's captaincy during the 2005 ashes campaign is unduly biased.

"He also remarked that should Australia fail to retain the Ashes, he would not shoulder the blame entirely, citing the performance of his players. Many saw this as a sign of weakness, that he showed a fear of impending failure to his opponents." It is reasonable to conclude that he, and the Australian team did not play well on tour, however slights on Ponting's character are unneccessary and are not in the interest of neutrality. The comment in Pontings "weakness" is a point of view, similary the comment on his "fear". The entire section should be reviewed in the interest of neutrality. Juan 01:55, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

This section is poorly written and may be bias towards india.

"Early on, he was regarded as a near-compulsive hooker and vulnerable to being caught at fine leg; he has latterly moderated this tendency. He is less effective against spin bowling on flat pitches. In eight Test matches against India in India, Ponting's batting average is 12.28; considerably lower than his career average." Nobody is really "vulnerable to being caught at fine leg" very few catches ever end up there and is not the correct way the phrase the notion of compulsive hooking, you would just simply be likley to be caught going for the shot which could be almost anywhere on the legside. Also "is less effective against spin bowling on flat pitches" Is either a biased and/or non-cricketer comment. Ponting had a woeful tour of india in 2001 but he has an exelent record agaist spin all over the world. It could be said he struggled on the dusty pitches of india but I can tell you for a FACT he does not struggle agaist any bowling on flat pitches as flat pitches are found everywhere and he scores rather heavily on them his stats speak for themselves really.Carlo rendell 10:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reference in SMH

Just a note to say this article was referred to in the Sydney Morning Herald of 8 October 2005 [1], jguk 20:21, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Photos

what's with that pic? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Frank Carmody (talk • contribs).

It's the best we've got while we're waiting for anyone going out and taking a photo and then licensing it under a free license, so that everyone can use it. Sam Vimes 22:13, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Missing sentence?

Something seems garbled here:

But that never seemed to daunt him, at least not so much that he felt the need to wear more 
protective headgear. This perhaps saved his career when in the first Ashes test of 2005 series at 
Lord's he received a vicious bouncer from Steve Harmison directed at his head that hit him on the 
side of his helmet.

His disdain for helmets saved his career by getting him hit in the helmet at Lord's? It seems like there should be a sentence between the two indicating when he began to wear headgear more regularly- don't know what the facts of the matter are (dates, etc). --Clay Collier 02:35, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree... The whole paragraph about wearing helmets is confusing, and seems to just be based on personal observations. I'm not doubting their truth, but it should be sourced and be a lot clearer. AlbinoMonkey ^(Talk) 03:19, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I removed that paragraph. Some guys take off their headgear after a long hot day when they are batting against spin. I can't tink of any batsmen who by default uses a cap when he bats against quicks. Anyway, Ponting only played less than half a dozen games at No 3. in the Taylor era as I noted in my additions, so the comment about Taylor and Slater being erratic is unnecessary (and POV).Blnguyen | rant-line 06:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

I've tried to beef up a whole pile of things, mainly about his pre-cpataincy career, which was a bit skinny. Pls have a look to see if I've missed anything. Blnguyen | rant-line 06:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nitpicking

in which he was promoted to the No 3. position when Langer was elevated to opening due to the sacking of Michael Slater.

Not directly related to Langer's comeback. Langer did not play in the first four Tests and replaced Slater at Oval, while Ponting batted at No.3 in all the five.

Ponting was elevated to the captaincy, ahead of then vice-captain Adam Gilchrist, which was considered rather surprising by many commentators.

Should be broken into two.

There are too many commas in the article :) Tintin (talk) 07:42, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

The Langer comment is true. I forgot that it was slater-hayden-ponting-wauhg-waugh-martyn. Yes, the sentence should be broken. You should probably check the Yuvraj page then also.Blnguyen | rant-line 07:58, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] physical Height information in introduction?

"His height is 5'10"."

Should this information be provided in introduction paragraph? IMHO, intro paragraph is not well suited for saying what is the player's height. It can be either made part of the infobox (making it general to all the players) or should be added in some other sections. Any thoughts/suggestions? - KNM ^Talk 08:06, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Is he really 5'10"? He looks like a midget next to Freddie. --LiamE 01:03, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Updating during test

I agree with Sam Vimes' comments - do not update the stats DURING a test match. Apart from the fact that the figures state they were last updated 20 April 2006, so are fairly out of date already - but at the end of the test, other people updating the table will not know what has changed, what is current and what needs to be updated. It would be best to reference an external source at the end of the test (cricinfo.com, or cricket.com.au or baggygreen.com.au) and duplicate their stats. -- Chuq 20:25, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Seems to me that the stats in the opening paragraph are not needed either. There is a big infobox down one side, so clumsy statements like "over 9000 runs and 32 centuries as of the ongoing Brisbane Test" are poor copy. Darcyj 02:41, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Atari reference

I removed the image of the Atari video game cover because (a) it is a copyright image, and (b) this is not an advertising site. I also took out the sentence "The game seems to be only available in Australia." because it is unverified and because the availability of the product is irrelevant to the basic information that the game is one of Ponting's commercial endorsements. Darcyj 11:37, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Even if verified, the game's availability doesn't strike me as important enough to this subject to mention in the article. jguk 11:47, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rankings

The article begins by saying that Ponting IS this and he IS that with particular reference to rankings. Rankings can change and if Ponting fails to maintain his recent form he will definitely slip in the rankings. It would be better to point out that he WAS top-ranked in 2006 and not pre-empt a changed situation in the future when continued use of the present tense will confuse a reader. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 14:43, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

A fair point, but in respect of the Test batting rankings (at least) Ponting's place at #1 is not under threat in the near future. When I revised the article just recently I did away with the "as at such-and-such-date" phrases on the grounds that they were a bit clumsy. One of the prime characteristics of Wikipedia is that is is not static and that information can be presented as it currently is without compromising future reading. When the rankings do change, a prompt editing will surely be no onerous task for any one of a hundred editors. Darcyj 02:20, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Review comments moved here

relocated here from Peer Review

Ponting became the first Australian captain since Allan Border in 1985 to lose The Ashes when Australia were defeated by England 2 wins to 1 - Australia lost 1-3 in 1985 and 1-2 in 1986-87. I didn't fix it because it is not clear which series is intended here.

It is only possible to lose the Ashes when oneis the holder of the Ashes. In 1986-87, England's team came to Australia as the holder of the trophy, so although Border's side lost the series it was a case of England retaining the Ashes. All of this would be fairly obvious to a cricket fan, but probably not to a casual reader, so I guess an edit might be in order. Darcyj 05:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I had added this comment because I (incorrectly) read it to mean that the 1985 series was won by a 2-1 margin. Looking it at again, it seems easy to make that mistake. Tintin (talk) 11:41, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Changed the opening sentences of the paragraph, it should be unambiguous now. Darcyj 11:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

The series had begun with a big win to Australia at Lord's, but a pre-match accidental injury to Glenn McGrath proved a turning point. - the second half of this should be separated. Gives the impression that he was injured at Lord's.

Fair point. Better would be "... win to Australia at Lord's, but at Edgbaston in the pre-match warmup for the 2nd Test an accidental injury to Glenn McGrath proveda turning point." Agree? Darcyj 05:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I've now made that change. Darcyj 12:01, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

and raised his career average above 60, taking his - the recent form section is already out of date. The average came down to 58.96 when he got out. The mention of 60 appears in Key Achievements as well. Tintin (talk) 03:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Someone has edited the stats in the player info box mid-match, which is not recommended. Nevertheless, your analysis is also wrong. His average before the 2nd Test began was 59.52ref and so an innings of 142 could not have lowered his average. Right now, he has 9190 runs and has been dismissed 153 times, an average of 60.06. Darcyj 05:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I had looked at the strike rate :P Tintin (talk) 05:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name?

Is there anyway we can find out if his official name is Richard? Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:52, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps it isn't his official name? There are only 42 results found for ["Richard Ponting" cricket]. I know an Indian who first name is officially Ricky! Anyway Wikipedia isn't based on formalities. It is based on how it appears in sources. Otherwise Arabic numerals should be changed to Hindu-Arabic numerals which is technically more correct. So I don't think we need to mention Richard even if it is his formal name. Gizza^Chat ^© 04:25, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peacock Terms

I deleted the following statement from the intro: He is widely regarded as the best batsman in the world.^[1]. Not only did this violate WP:PEACOCK, it was a mis-characterization of the course. While the cited reference had nothing but praise for Ponting, it hardly stated that he is the unqualified best. 159.153.129.39 23:09, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Ponting is widely regarded as the best batsman in the world. WP:PEACOCK says Instead of telling the reader that a subject is important, use facts to show the subject's importance. - it does not say not to do 'both. And to scratch the citation on the basis that it does not have the exact phrase which I used as a summary of sentiment is to draw a particularly long bow. I may put the statement back and add 27 footnotes to reflect the wideness of opinion about Ponting's batting, shall I? Darcyj 01:03, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the statement is accurate. Tendulkar and Lara both have their supporters as best batsman in the world. Yousuf will have a claim soon too if he carries on like he has been. On the other hand, "one of the best batsmen" would be uncontroversial, and easily backed up by citations. Stephen Turner (Talk) 11:46, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

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