Talk:Rhondda Cynon Taff

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Previously there was info about this place at Rhondda. It was eventually meged into this article. The history of this info is now at Talk:Rhondda Cynon Taff/Early history of Rhondda.--Commander Keane 04:32, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

---

If "Rhondda Cynon Taf" is the Welsh spelling, and "Rhondda Cynon Taff" the English, this page should be at "Rhondda Cynon Taff". Marnanel 21:46, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, Morwen. :) Marnanel 04:01, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)

"Rhondda Cynon Taf" is the correct name for the county (by now). See the link to the council's website: [1]. Gareth 14:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Is there any reason why this article should not be moved to 'Rhondda Cynon Taf', with all the 'Taff' spellings in the article changed? The official spelling changed years ago. Cheela 10 September 2006

Both versions are "correct": the council now uses the Welsh language version, but the name of the county borough has not been changed. Both names were listed in the Act that created the area.[2] Should the English language Wikipedia use the Welsh name when the English one is still valid, albeit abandoned? Dunno, maybe. What I do know is when someone kept changing the "Taff"s to "Taf"s it completely broke the page, with images and links getting messed up, so it needs to be done right.

By rights they should go the whole hog and call themselves Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf, rather than picking and mixing... Lozleader 20:32, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Note that the original name had commas in it. has it been changed to remove the commas? when? etc. Morwen - Talk 22:03, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Amusingly, VoB has the name with semi-colons instead of commas [3] Lozleader 09:07, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm the use of the commas is inconsistent:

• they don't appear in this SI from 1998 [4],
• but they do in this one [5];
• commas in 1999 [6]
• no commas in 2000 [7],
• back again in 2002 [8]
• And here's one from 2006 with commas [9],
• and one without [10] (and still spelt Taff with 2 fs)

Lozleader 09:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Onthe other hand [11] from 2003 has "Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council" Lozleader 09:32, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. Curious. Random SIs unrelated to the topic in hand probably aren't the best source for usage: it's not uncommon for one to go out without really having been checked, having severe errors, and have to be amended by another SI. Minor errors just will get through. googling site:news.bbc.co.uk I get far more 'Taff' than 'Taf' - but googling site:bbc.co.uk/wales I get more 'Taf'. I suggest we keep it where it is for the moment, but keep an eye on matters to see whether the single-f version takes off in English. Morwen - Talk 10:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to all those who responded to my original query above. Several Welsh unitary authorities have changed their name from that given to them in the 1996 legislation referenced above. Ceredigion, Conwy, and Gwynedd were named Cardiganshire, Aberconwy & Colwyn, and Caernarfonshire & Merionethshire respectively. In all cases the Wiki articles on them use the names used by the local authorities today - the 1996 names are barely mentioned as such (notwithstanding that the components of the names e.g. Colwyn have had other uses). Over the border a similar thing is seen with e.g. North Somerset which was created as North West Somerset, and this latter name is not mentioned in its Wiki article.

Therefore, for consistency this article should be under 'Rhondda Cynon Taf'. Whatever the council area is known as in Welsh, and the fact that the River Taff itself is usually spelt with two 'f's are not relevant here. I would recommend that this article be so changed, though I'm not going to do this myself. Cheela 19:50, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

What we don't have (which makes it different from the other districts) is any statutory basis or date for the change. I suppose you could call the article Rhondda Cynon Taf and redirect from Rhondda Cynon Taff... The opening paragraph ought to point out that the council currently uses the Welsh spelling, although the other one is still current. There's nothing to stop the councillors from using the English spelling tommorrow if they want to. Don't know what to do about the commas: Redirect pages at Rhondda, Cynon, Taff (oh look, that's a blue link, must be already there) and Rhondda, Cynon,Taf? Perhaps someone ought to e-mail the council to get the minutes where they chose to stop using the English name? Lozleader 21:11, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Ah, but yes, all these name changes were done under section whatever of the Local Government Act 1972 and we have their date. In this case, where official and common usage are with the two-f version, I don't see that we should follow the council's example.

As to North Somerset - yes that is an ommission the plan was originally to rename Woodspring as North West Somerset on April 1, 1996. According to [12] the name of the county of North West Somerset was changed to North Somerset on June 28, 2005 - apparently the name of the district had been changed before. Anyway, this is getting rather besides the point. Morwen - Talk 21:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

The "which spelling to use" thing crops up all over the Welsh council and town articles: I remember creating Y Faenol and logging in to find it had moved to Vaynol one day. Recently it has been bubbling along at Aberdyfi and brought up at WP:WWNB: see Wikipedia talk:Welsh Wikipedians' notice board#Opinions sought on naming conventions. I am a bit wary about using government acts as the ultimate authority for names: any narrow gauge fan will tell you that the Ffestiniog Railway is spelt "Festiniog" under the act creating it. Telsa (talk) 07:04, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

FWIW there was a public notice in a newspaper the other day that had a council logo with both names on it! Owain (talk) 08:27, 14 September 2006 (UTC)