User talk:Resolute

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Contents 1 POV and not a nickname 2 Pronger discussion 3 NHL Team Season Articles 4 Calgary Flames 5 WCHL vs. WOJHL 6 Royals 6.1 CIS Hockey

[edit] POV and not a nickname

That's some pretty tough talk when a source to a major newspaper is cited saying "aka" ... - the universal prefix for a nickname Jaskaramdeep 02:51, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

The "universal prefix"? A POV based opinion does not remove a POV concern. One could site any number of names that any number of players have been called at one time or another. A city, or in this case, newspaper, suffering from jilted lover syndrome does not qualify this as a nickname. Resolute 02:54, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Where is this definition of what is a nickname and what isn't? Maybe I should have referred to it when creating the field in the template, instead of linking it to an entire Wikipedia page, whose definition is this: A nickname is a short, clever, cute, derogatory, or otherwise substitute name for a person or thing's real name ... A nickname is sometimes considered desirable, symbolising a form of acceptance, but can often be a form of ridicule. Your argument that "A city, or in this case, newspaper, suffering from jilted lover syndrome does not qualify this as a nickname" is full of holes - this article is from the Calgary Sun. Jaskaramdeep 03:15, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

The article was reprinted in the Calgary Sun, but Zeisberger is not a Calgary Sun writer. It is a SunMedia story originating from another paper. Not that this is terribly relevent. I stand by my comment: just because one paper says something does not make it a nickname. In this case it should be especially obvious to anyone but someone allowing their own feelings regarding Pronger to enter the equasion. Resolute 03:54, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I think it's pretty relavent. You discounted something because you thought the person was being a homer, and it turns out that the person has no personal affilitation with the Oilers. One person is not saying this; the entire city of Edmonton is saying it. If this is the Resolute from HFboards, I am sure you have heard the "move over Peter Puck, move over Mike Comrie" banter over the last few months. There is always a public enemy #1 in Edmonton, and that title now belongs to Chris Pronger. This is just one article that says so, I could find more that say the same thing. Jaskaramdeep 04:21, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I discounted it because it is a POV statement, and not a nickname, exactly as I said. I am also quite aware of the opinion of Oiler fans. I've been reverting their vandalism on this article for months now. I reverted your edit because I have never ONCE heard anyone refer to Pronger regularally as "Public Enemy #1 in Edmonton", thus, IMO, is not a nickname. If anything it belongs in the main article as a cited reference to how Oiler fans feel about Pronger's trade request. Resolute 04:33, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Isn't saying that you've "never ONCE heard ... regularly" a contradiction? Anyways, you've heard it at least once - in the article I cited. In any case, I have Edmonton's Canoe writer saying that he's public enemy #1" [1], and here's the kicker. I have Pronger HIMSELF saying he's "public enemy #1" in Edmonton [2]. If that's not regular enough for you, I'm not sure what more I can do to prove this nickname is valid. Jaskaramdeep 18:32, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

So? Being described as something does not make it a nickname. Don Koharski's nickname did not become "Fat Pig" after Jim Schoenfeld called him one. I have never heard one individual regularally refer to Pronger as that. ie: it is not a nickname that anybody uses, simply an opinion of what Oiler fans think of him. Resolute 19:22, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Where is this definition of a nickname you keep referring to? Take a look at the nickname page on Wikipedia to see just how broad a category "nickname" encompasses. And now it's "one individual" referring to someone regularly that makes it a nickname? You just keep pulling ideas out of a hat, and tossing them up as fact. This is not just what Oiler fans think of him. If you actually read my last response you'd see that this is what Pronger even thinks of himself. Jaskaramdeep 23:01, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

This is the last time I will waste my time saying this: Being described as something does not make it a nickname. Resolute 23:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Alright. Then this will be the last time I say this: How can you prove that? Jezus christ, maybe I should have just named the field "what people refer to him as" It's bad enough that there's billions of Wikinazis running around enforcing every rule to make themselves feel big, but when you start telling me what a field I created means, that's going too farJaskaramdeep 23:37, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

You do not own any part of Wikipedia any more than I do. Creating the template does not give you ownership of its contents, nor does it give you exclusive right to dictate what goes in it. I've tried to compromise by adding a blurb on this in the main article. If that is not good enough for you, then I suggest taking it to the community. I'm adding a request for others at WP:HOCKEY to comment. Resolute 23:55, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

A nickname is something that a player becomes better known as (ie. ROCKET Richard) or what the fans chant/call him, (ie. Eddie the Eagle, CuJo, etc.). Public Enemy #1 in Edmonton does not qualify as a nickname because he is not commonly known as that, it's more of a title than anything. We could probably dig up a tonne of negative statements about many players and claim them as nicknames, but that would be stupid. -- Scorpion0422 00:21, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Outside of Edmonton, nobody has heard of this. Flibirigit 03:54, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

That certainly does not qualify as a nickname. I've never heard of anyone calling him this until today. Some journalist making light of the fact that he is unpopular in Edmonton does not mean that "Public Enemy #1" is his alias. DMighton 06:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

This is a completely absurd issue. There are exactly 23 Google hits for "public enemy #1" and "Pronger," and almost all of those either are from random blogs or do not refer to Pronger at all. That wouldn't remotely pass muster in any AfD discussion. Furthermore, Jaskaramdeep may find it well worth his while to review the requirements of WP:BIO regarding the positive duty of Wikipedia editors to aggressively delete spurious derogatory material concerning living persons, and WP:OWN generally. Looks like he's tripped over Godwin's Law as well. To paraphrase Samuel Johnson, screeching about "XNazis" is the last refuge of someone who's losing the argument. RGTraynor 07:07, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Andddd ... while this is unrelated, isn't it really high time that sports fans stopped acting like 3-year-old brats when a player jumps ship? Are Edmonton fans apologizing for signing Petr Sykora as a free agent? How about Steve Staios? Sheesh, the Oilers traded Pronger, last I noticed, and got respectable value for him. RGTraynor 07:20, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh give me a break. First, the Rangers were not going to brink Sykora back. Since when is re-signing your own free agent against the rules? What is against the rules is signing a contract, then breaking it, which is what Pronger did, and if you have a problem with Oilers fans getting upset that Pronger, or whoever else screws them, then maybe it's you who should stop acting like a 3-year old. Do you know why comrie gets booed? He slept with Tommy Salo's wife. Do you know why Doug Weight gets booed? He said he would only accept a trade to St. Louis or Detroit. Do you know why Chris Pronger will be booed? His leaving broke up a contending team. Not only himself, but also Jaroslav Spacek, who left because he did. He said "the team will not be the same" as part of the reason why he accepted less money to sign with the Sabres.

And RGTraynor, while you're doing Google searches, try doing a search for Wikinazi. It's just an expression. Also, if you took time to actually read my edit, you would see these three references, to news sources (not blogs/whatever you're on about). [3][4][5]. Oh, and here's ANOTHER one from today [6]. That's 4 without me breaking a sweat. Just ask it you need more.

Resolute, first of all calm down. No one owns parts of wikipedia. I created this template for oilers players, and then someone wanted me to expand it to be used for all NHL players, then someone wanted me to expand it to be used for all hockey players everywhere. If I wanted to keep it for my own use I wouldn't have done so. Jaskaramdeep 14:43, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Four whole reporters using the turn of phrase? Just four? Come back to us when you have four hundred cites. John Bucyk's been retired nearly 30 years and his nickname has 350 hits. Geez, Gary "Suitcase" Smith has over 200 hits. That aside, your intentionally offensive use of the term "Wikinazi" for those who oppose your POV remains offensive, well known expression or otherwise. Were I to call you a "m*****f*****", I imagine you'd be offended, however much the term has nearly 1.5 million Google hits. Finally, your arguments are much better suited to a blog or a hockey bulletin board. I'm sure you'll have little problem promulgating your crusade on such a forum, but until such a change becomes generally accepted and documented amongst the wider public, it remains unencyclopedic. RGTraynor 05:58, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pronger discussion

Actually, Pronger never broke his contract. He requested a trade, which the Oilers granted. There is no indication that he did, or would have, violated his agreement in any way. Resolute 17:13, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh really? Then why did the Prongers sell their house in Terwillegar mid-playoffs? This is why people can't understand why oilers fans boo former players - they're uninformed. And it's probably not their fault either. The eastern media bias in this country does their best to kick edmonton while they're down. Pronger was gone - he would have sat in mexico for 4 years waiting for Lowe to deal him. Jaskaramdeep 18:56, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Believe me, I am well aware of the situation, and why Oiler fans are so upset. I've never once gotten on the case of an Oiler fan for being upset at Pronger. In the context of Wikipedia, however, random means of expressing that frustration almost always violate the site's policies.

The fact is, you dont know what Pronger would have done had Lowe not traded him. He most certantly did not break his contract before the trade, so your statement is patently false, and thoughts on what he would have done if still an Oiler at the start of this season are the same type of baseless speculation as that of why he (or she) requested the trade in the first place. Most fans - even Flames fans like myself - can sympathize with Oiler fans over what Pronger did. But the fact is, he wasnt the first player to ever request a trade, and he wont be the last. He certantly doesnt fit in the same category as guys like Alexei Yashin and Doug Gilmour, who did break their contracts. Resolute 20:28, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, you are right in that he did not break the contract. But you can't deny that he had every intention to, given the opportunity. The fact that lowe didn't want to waste 6.25M in cap space per year, plus have no Pronger/Pronger trade return to start the season shouldn't mean he is any better than Yashin. Yashin asked for a trade, and was told to suit up for the season, which he didn't do the first time 'round. Pronger wasn't asked to suit up, because lowe has experience with holdouts, and knew he'd be better off just to move on ASAP - turn over a new leaf. That shouldn't make pronger any better than Yashin, because by all accounts, he was not going to even live in the city this year. He had no house! This is not "baseless speculation" - this part is fact. The speculation, if any, is that the player with no house in his team's city, is not going to play for said team in the upcoming season. Is that not reasonable? Jaskaramdeep 22:19, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NHL Team Season Articles

I like your idea about making a page for NHL team's individual seasons (I found this out from Jaskaramdeep). And I would like to help you out by doing the web page for the Los Angeles Kings. Is that alright? Ksy92003 20:46, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I will work hard to get as much information as I can. After I conclude the Kings 2006-07 season done, I will start working on other teams as well, with your permission. By the way, click here to go to the page that I am currently working on about the Los Angeles Kings 2006-07 season. Ksy92003 23:09, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I was just on there, editing that page, and I noticed at the bottom that a category had been added on there. I didn't think that I had done that, and I wasn't aware that it was you until about 15 minutes later. So thanks for your assistance. Ksy92003 05:21, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, I started working on the page for the Buffalo Sabres. Click here to check out this page. Make any and all changes you feel necessary. The other information I'll try to get up as soon as I possibly can. Ksy92003 06:41, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I have completed most of everything for the Buffalo Sabres season. If you wish to view my work, click here. For both that one and my Los Angeles Kings seaon article, I have done one thing different than what you did for your 2006-07 Calgary Flames season article in the game logs. For that, I felt that it would be better to only show the team's upcoming games (usually their next 5 games, including records and the outcome of the previous meeting) as this would be easier for readers of the article to understand. I've added an external link to the team website and cited my sources for the draft picks for both articles. Again, feel free to check out those sites. Thank you again for giving me the opportunity to work on these articles. Ksy92003 16:09, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

The template for all teams is a good idea. Also, the main reason for me doing the upcoming games was because it would've taken me a long time to get the full schedule on there. I am relatively new to editing Wikipedia, so I just went with the shortest way that I knew how to do. If you wish to edit that and put the full team schedule in there, feel free to do so.

I think we should get a couple people for every team to work on that page. It would be easier if we only have to focus on our local team, and it would be nice if we could get the season for all 30 teams up. I am from Long Beach, California, and the Los Angeles Kings are my local team. I was also thinking about doing the page for the Anaheim Ducks at a later date. The reason why I also did the Buffalo Sabres page was because they are such a good team also and I wanted to get their page up as quickly as I could. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ksy92003 (talk • contribs) 18:38, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

I hope so. This was a really good idea you have, and I can't wait until we have a good page for every team. Perhaps later this weekend, I will begin working on the pages for the Anaheim Ducks and conclude my editing of the Draft Picks for the Buffalo Sabres

[edit] Calgary Flames

Hello, Resolute. I see you've been in discussion with the same Die-Hard Flames fan/One tracked mind anon-user, that I've been arguing with. Could you explain, to him what Co-Captain means & Alternate Captain means. Please & Thank you. GoodDay 03:52, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'm getting dangerously close to the 3-Revert rule. I'm thinking of reaching a compromise with the anon-user. As he & I both have sources backing our argument. GoodDay 03:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Resolute. As the anon-user & I have reached the 3-edit limit. Would you do the honours of adding to the Flames article the following compromise edit: McDonald, Peplinski & Hunter, 1988-89 (tri-captains), with a Note to the dispute over Hunter's tri-captaincy? Thanks. GoodDay 04:27, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the compromise edit. PS-I hope my passionate discussion style with the anon-user, didn't upset or offend you. Sometimes, my passion for keeping Wikipedia in correct form, shamefully gets the best of me. GoodDay 05:02, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Hello, again. Just curious, could you correct the spelling of Jim Peplinski? GoodDay 13:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

No prob, I've fixed it. GoodDay 16:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WCHL vs. WOJHL

Hey, I've been doing some extensive research on the Southern Ontario Junior A Hockey League. For two seasons, 1968-69 and 1969-70, they were a renegade league called the Western Ontario Junior A Hockey League. I was reading that during at least one of those two seasons the champions of the WOJHL and the WCHL faced off in a National title game. Ever heard of this? If not, could you look into it... the WHL still exists, the SOJHL doesn't... lol. If you have, could you please shed some light? DMighton 22:39, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

It would appear that the WHL doesnt consider this a very important event, as it was never mentioned in the WHL's history articles (which havent been brought back online since whl.ca was redesigned), and the media guide makes no mention of it. The Flin Flon Bombers website makes no mention if it either. It might have just been something done between the two teams without the involvement of the leagues? Resolute 23:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Royals

I see that you are pulling apart the Royal article... I hope you will be at least putting those stats I compiled on to the other pages... Spurs, Chinooks, Red Devils and all that... DMighton 23:28, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks man ;)... I'm gonna try to do stats for some of the other defunct teams too... like the Rustlers and Mount Royal and all that. Do you have any idea if the Mount Royal College Junior "A" team is separate from the College team? Do we even have articles for Canadian College or University hockey teams or leagues? HockeyDB has tons of stats for it. DMighton 23:38, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CIS Hockey

I think I am going to start building a CIS Hockey article.. and then a OUA Article... as well as the teams... I'll probably start with the Windsor Lancer and Guelph Gryphons as they are my two local teams. Do you know where we can find some good stats for CCAA Hockey? DMighton 04:41, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

BTW, what kind of suffix should be used, do you think, for teams that have both men's and women's teams?

ex: Windsor Lancers (men's ice hockey)

any other ideas or does that sound good? I have found CIS Standings from 1995 to present, but no CCAA. DMighton 04:47, 10 December 2006 (UTC)