Talk:Religion of Peace

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article was nominated for deletion on 20 May 2006. The result of the discussion was No consensus.

Contents 1 Previous deletion 2 Why is the article still here? 3 Original research 4 Bush quotes, from White House website 5 Raphaels latest edits 6 pic

[edit] Previous deletion

I just noticed the article was previously deleted. Most of those who voted for deletion had a problem with the phrase rather than merely the wikipedia article, though. The entry is longer than a paragraph, and mentions two interpretations, so it's serious enough not to merge with List of ethnic slurs. Andjam 01:01, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Now I'm curious as to what the previous version looked like. Where might I find it? Rearden Metal 07:27, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Why is the article still here?

The article already had an AfD with the result Delete, so please remove it!! Raphael1 02:42, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

That version got deleted. If you think this version of the article should be deleted (creation of a previously deleted article doesn't always qualify), I'd appreciate it if you gave the rationale at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Religion of Peace (second nomination). Thanks, Andjam 04:52, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Why is it a "second nomination", if it's an AfD for a new version? Have the issues of the first AfD ("Non notable offensive slur", "POV attack", "Frequent use by one hatemongering group does not notability make", "POV, epithet, and unwarranted promo for LGF") been addressed? Raphael1 18:27, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

This pointless article must be deleted according to WP:NOT.Timothy Usher

Or else what? You know the drill - put it on AfD if you think it should be deleted. Andjam 07:02, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Original research

Where are the previous sources for this article? Google searching on Religion of Peace is returning over 2,000,000 hits. That seems like an awful lot of hits for the narrow view of this expression being written about in this article. Netscott 20:40, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bush quotes, from White House website

Why was the 'citation needed' tag added, regarding President Bush's public declarations of Islam as a religion of peace? The citation has been here all along, under external links: http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/ramadan/islam.html

Bush quotes from this official link:

" Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion, a religion that respects others."

"The Islam that we know is a faith devoted to the worship of one God, as revealed through The Holy Qur'an. It teaches the value and the importance of charity, mercy, and peace."

"I have assured His Majesty that our war is against evil, not against Islam. There are thousands of Muslims who proudly call themselves Americans, and they know what I know -- that the Muslim faith is based upon peace and love and compassion. The exact opposite of the teachings of the al Qaeda organization, which is based upon evil and hate and destruction."

"The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war." Rearden Metal 23:01, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

In none of those quotes does GWB use the phrase "religion of peace", so either we change the first sentence or we look for another source. Raphael1 00:52, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Raphaels latest edits

Raphael, why is this relevant in an article that discuss the neologism "Religion of Peace": "But an invitation to Rev. Franklin Graham, who dubbed Islam "very evil and wicked" in 2001, to lead a Good Friday service at the Pentagon stirred controversy."? And why do you believe that it says something that is not POV or OR about GWB's "credibility"? -- Karl Meier 21:09, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

The article discusses a neologism, which has allegedly been introduced by American politicians, most notably President George W. Bush. Therefore Rev. Franklin Grahams views on Islam, who allegedly is a friend of George W. Bush and has a close relationship to the Bush family[1], are certainly relevant to this article. GWB as president of the United States certainly has a say in who gets invitated to the Pentagon and whos governmental funded relief organization is permitted to go to Iraq. Raphael1 16:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

But an invitation to Rev. Franklin Graham, who dubbed Islam "very evil and wicked" in 2001, to lead a Good Friday service at the Pentagon stirred controversy. [2][3][4][5]

I'm sorry Raphael1 but I'm not seeing the pertinency to this article of this above text. Netscott 23:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Well the core of this article is, that the Bush administration publicly referred to Islam as a peaceful religion. OTOH the Bush administration invites Rev. Graham a friend of GWB, who calles Islam a "very evil and wicked" religion, to the Pentagon and gives his relief organization Samaritan's Purse approval to operate in Iraq. I'd say, that this controversial fact is worth to get mentioned in the article. Raphael1 23:54, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Here's another interesting text. Raphael1 00:37, 5 July 2006 (UTC) It seems like Mr. Hull didn't forget the ultimate by using logistical, tactical and strategic prayers. Raphael1 00:52, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Raphael, this article is about the neologism "Religion of Peace", and it should discuss who has used it, for what purpose, if it has been criticized in any way and so on. The article should not discuss GWB or his administrations position on Islam in any such details. There is other articles where such discussions might be appropiate, but this is not one of them. -- Karl Meier 20:57, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Based on reading the discussion here and the article, I second Raphael's point. 24.211.192.250 22:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, right. -- Karl Meier 05:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Karl here. That statement should perhaps be made in the Rev's article instead. BhaiSaab ^talk 15:19, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Amazing... to actually see Karl Meier and BhaiSaab agree... that certainly means something... add my voice to those two in terms of this material not staying in this article. (→Netscott) 04:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] pic

I removed the pic since it is offensive and non-informative. --Striver 16:32, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

How is it non-informative? Andjam 21:05, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

It does not inform of any issue that is related to the article. How is it informative?`--Striver 21:09, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah - too true - It is non-informative as we already know these losers from other articles and it's offensive as one of the signs is unclear if it is "it's" or "its" (see the apostrophy in the middle bottom sign about Europe you will pay etc etc though you have to search the net to find the other examples where the same writing is used). I think thats what they mean. Ttiotsw 21:54, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

It shows people marching to promote the views that critics criticize. Are you offended because it shows people with a different interpretation of Islam? KittyHawker 05:25, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

No, not really, if those idiots enjoy proving to everyone that they are idiots, i would not care that much. What offends me is that wikipedia is presenting those idiots as representatives of my faith. That is offending. also, it is giving the idiots WP:NPOV#Undue weight --Striver 05:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

OK. Maybe a caption that says, "Those who use the term ROP hold that the actions of these marchers are representative of Islam as a whole." But I guess the picture doesn't matter anyway. KittyHawker 06:11, 10 December 2006 (UTC)