Talk:Religion in Japan

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Japan To-do:

I added Islam to a traditional religion part but did not change next part as Islam is new and has very small belivers. No need to panic :) Revth 17:14, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Vandalism

someone has changed TodaijiDaibutsu0224.jpg IwashimizuHachimangu.jpg

to pictures of a penis. i have deleted the links until someone restores the original pics and links again.--Darthanakin 03:52, 8 December 2006 (UTC) Christianity is one of the most important and prolific religions in Japan, with upwards of 76% of the population being Christian. this part is clearly false, I shall delete it.--Darthanakin 03:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree, and have already taken the liberty. Thank you for removing the images, the problem seems to be fixed now, so I have reverted your removal. —INTRIGUEBLUE (talk|contribs) 03:59, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dutch Catholics

Are you sure that there was Dutch missionaries preaching Cahtolicism in the 16th and 17th century??

Yes. 213.172.254.73 00:09, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Early Nestorianism

I read in some site that a mysterious peaceful religion arriving from China in the 1st millenium AD was a form of Christian Nestorianism. The site seemed suspect, but it also had lots of info on hiddenChristians.

[edit] Popularity

A popular prayer when in trouble is "Kami-sama, Hotoke-sama, dōka otasuke kudasai."

Actually no. This is akin to someone saying that a popular prayer in the United States is "Jeebus, Allah, Buddah, I love you all! Save meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" because they saw one episode of The Simpsons where Homer says it. The integration between Shintoism and Buddhism actually goes back a few centuries ago (cf. honji suijaku theory).

A Japanese schoolboy might well pray at a Shinto shrine to receive a chocolate for St. Valentine's Day, a Christian holiday.

I'm rather skeptical about this claim. How common are such shrines?

I would not call St. Valentine's a Christian holiday. It's date is selected after a christian saint, and the name recalls him, but apart from this that holiday has nothing to do with christianity and christian tradition. That holiday is entirely commercial.
Ditto. Came to the talk page wondering if somebody had pointed that out. Oh, and to the poster above: erm, yeah, Shinto shrines are abundantly present in Japan. How can you be sceptical of something you obviously have no idea about? 213.172.254.73 00:02, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction of another article

"Some churches in America take an active missionary role in converting Japanese in Japan, and America, but even in America, 97% of Japanese Americans adhere to Shinto and Buddhism."

This claim directly contradicts this from the Japanese American article

"Japanese Americans are typically members of Protestant Christianity. Only a small minority are also followers of Mahayana Buddhism, Zen Buddhism and sectarian Shinto."

These can't BOTH be right. I'm going to place a similar message on that article's talk page. I don't know which view is correct; maybe someone who knows better than me can fix this.

Rhesusmanrhesusman 17:20 UTC 17 April 2005

It's always hard to mince numbers with the syncretic outlook the Japanese have on religions, but you are right. Something doesn't seem to fit here. 213.172.254.73 00:09, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why is Christianity mentioned so much?

I call attention to the statistics on NationMaster [4] (http://www.nationmaster.com) where they say the Japanese "observe both Shinto and Buddhist 84%, other 16% (including Christian 0.7%)" This says to me that Christianity in Japan is practiced by so few people that it should be moved to another category titled "Other Religions" along with shamanism and other cults. Cite me specific facts that show that the Japanese belive in Chrisitianity in equal proportion to the other two, otherwise I will make this change.--Scipantheist 15:41, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The section in question reads like a historical note. I don't think the fact that Christianity is not put at "other religions" means that "Japanese belive in Chrisitianity in equal proportion to the other two." -- Taku 16:50, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)
True, only 1% of the japanese population is christain 71.135.56.246 17:22, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Corrections

I've made several corrections to the Shinto and Buddhism sections. The facts I've cited are all strictly from the Lonely Planet Guide to Japan, so please consider carefully before deleting them. I am still concerned that there is a large bias on behalf of Christianity here. As far as I can tell missionaries have met with little success in Japan, and the only real christian influence is in the desire of some Japanese for a Christian marriage (perhaps because they admire the West). Let me know what you think. --Scipantheist 22:44, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think Taku is right. The article in no way suggests that large numbers of Japanese adhere to Christianity in the sense that Westerners would say someone adheres to Christianity. I do think it's fair to say that Christianity has had an historical impact on Japan out of proportion to the numerical strength of its followers today. My understanding is that Christianity actually did make substantial inroads (including the conversion of some daimyo) when the Portuguese first brought it in, but the bakufu at the time eventually wiped it out. This substantial historical presence combined with the Japanese propensity to do things like have Christian weddings even if they're not Christian warrant the religion getting its own section. Moreover, this article is in English, and a large proportion of the English-speaking readership might want to know how many Christians are in Japan and to what denomination they adhere. If this were the Japanese language version of the article, that might not be as important. That's my feeling on the matter. Rhesusman 0:15 UTC 25 April 2005

Let me be blunt. I consider Christianity to be an outside religion. You can argue that Buddhism is also a foreign religion, but the Japanese have had centuries to make it their own, and they have done so. As to the historical role of Christianity, I have read that many daimyos "converted" to Christianity just to trade with the Portugese. I will acknowledge that the Japanese like to have western style weddings, but clearly the number of actual christians has always been less then or around 1%.--Scipantheist 15:41, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Trust me, I'm the last person who would be inclined to be biased in favor of mentioning Christianity more than is appropriate. Christianity is an outsider religion to Japan, I would agree with you fully there. I'm simply saying that it has had an impact out of proportion to the number of people following it. According to Marius Jensen's The Making of Modern Japan, Catholics might have been as much as two percent of the population at the end of the sixteenth century. That may not sound like much, but that's a bigger percentage than today, and it must have meant something if the Tokugawa were THAT concerned with squelching it. I'm not disputing with you the percentage of Christians in Japan today is around one percent; the article says as much. The small size of a religion does not preclude its having a significant cultural impact. Jews are only one and a half percent of the population of the United States, but have had a disproportionate cultural impact. Christians in Japan may not have made quite as much a of a mark there as the Jewish community has in the United States, but the impact of Christianity on Japan is certainly greater than and fundamentally different from that of other foreign religions like Islam. Christianity is an outside religion, but it has been an important in ways that other outside religions have not and the article should reflect that. Rhesusman 10:10 UTC 25 April 2005

Well, popular opinion is against me on this. I still say that, in as far as Christianity has been influencial it has been for political reasons (such as the Japanese wanting to be like the West) and not for any truely religous reason. If you want to put it back as a main category, along with Buddhism and Shintoism, go ahead.

Well I don't want to put it back in the main category. I thought you wanted to reduce the size of the section. If that's not what you're after, than we really don't have much of a dispute here. Rhesusman 16:10 UTC 25 April 2005

Perhaps it would be more appropriate to do some more work on collecting information about Buddhism and Shintoism then, rather than trying to make less of the Christian contribution.

[edit] New Religions

I created a new wikilink in the new religions section to Shinshukyo. The Shinshūkyō are a fairly widespread phenomenon in Japan, and I think they deserve attention as their own article. I'll see what work I can do to start it. Any help would be most appreciated, as this one's going to be difficult to write NPOV. LordAmeth 12:06, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Other Religions

I moved Christianity back under an Other Religions category. As stated in the discussion under Why is Christianity Mentioned So Much?, I don't think it is practiced by enough people in Japan to be considered anything other than a minority faith (<1% practicing). If someone would like to challenge the importance of Christianity with me, show me evidence that it is more important than religions like Islam in Japan.--Scipantheist 03:05, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Percentages of adherents

Is there any data (knowing how the Japanese love statistics) regarding practitioners of all faiths, divided by percent? Chris 21:29, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Valentine's Day

May have a Saint in front of it for some - Japanese are in it for the chocolate.

[edit] POV in article is horrible

This article needs to be rewritten. - ZenPupDog

What does that mean? --James 00:43, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
The article reads like some sort of Christian Missionary briefing and is out and out wrong. Japanese are both Shintoists and Buddhists - those percentages only reflect those who consider themselves one or the other and thus are offkilter. - Sparky 19:50, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I totally agree and I'm adding a tag to the Christianity section. Just look at this paragraph:

"Though Japanese Christians make up a small fraction of the population, they tend to be visible beyond their numbers. Its practitioners tend to be more devoted and proselytizing than other religions, and they attract sympathy among many young Japanese who view Western culture in a positive light. Furthermore, Christian organizations tend to give large amounts to charity, and have founded some important educational institutions such as the International Christian University, Kwansei Gakuin University and the Jesuit Sophia University."

I'm tempted to delete that on the spot, but I'll give people a chance to rewrite it, or add sources (but really, no sources can justify all of that). 199.126.137.209 06:51, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

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