Talk:Reise, Reise
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[edit] ohne dich
- a note on the commentary for Ohne Dich, note that the song says "lohnen nicht...ohne dich" - I have always interpreted that as "They mean nothing, without you" instead of the current explanation
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[edit] wrong translation
While "Reise" means "voyage" in German, "Reise reise" has a totally different meaning. It is a piece of a traditional sailors' idiom, is derived from the English word "to rise", does indeed mean "rise!" and is used to wake tha sailors for their watch. Kosebamse 19:16, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
the following copied from User talk:Kosebamse:
Your explanation about the translation of the album Reise Reise by Rammstein is interesting as it gives a new point of view to the album name for foreigners, for whom the easy translation would be voyage, voyage. For this reason, I'd encourage you to add this information to the articles instead of removing the wrong translation. If you do so, make it a bit more extense in order to make it more comprehensible for everyone (Like saying it could stand for Los, los! in modern German, or something similar). Thanks for making it clear. -KeyStorm 19:57, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- I have not added that information because I am not sure whether the album title does indeed refer to the meaning that I have described, or perhaps a pun on it, or perhaps something unrelated. Also, it is not impossible that it title refers to the imperative form of "reisen" (to travel), at least it would be grammatically correct (though it makes little sense). I guess one would have to know the lyrics to decide this question. Kosebamse 20:05, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
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- You're right, I also though it could be Reise (du), reise (du), being then 'travel, travel'. Anyway both are related to be generically translatable as let's go, let's go! wich would make sense for either the old Seemannslied-expression and the imperative. As my German is not as native as I'd wish it to be, you could make a little essay about the name and its translation explaining every option, if you have some time. -KeyStorm 20:28, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Kosebamse (hey, welcome back!) is absolutely right. See the lyrics: it is a song about sailors and sea battles. I'll leave it to you to update the article accordingly. Lupo 16:11, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Good you pointed it out, Lupo (although there was no doubt of the veracity of Kosebamse's translation). You could also add the lyrics to the article, now you found them. It would be nice for thos who haven't heard the song yet.
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- Ok, translation changed. Feel free to correct anything if wrong. Thanks for the advice :-)
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I still wonder why lyrics are beyond fair use if they are widely extended in the internet without artists complaining about it and seem to me as they should get the same consideration as covers, which is also copyrighted art. WikiProject: Albums even encourages to add real excerpts of some songs, which would also be hold by fair use. Well, I don't see why lyrics shouldn't be fair use, too.-KeyStorm 17:27, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
There is really no point in translating this with "arise, arise" because if there is such a meaning in German it is long lost. Also the song itself does not imply any such meaning but rather speaks of a journey - a journey for the band but also the journey every man has to make in his life. I am native german and this seems to be a over-interpretation in this translation; sometimes the easiest one is the correct one!
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- "Arise, Arise" seems to make more sense.
Though written as a noun, "Reise" is obviously used as a verb in the song. The phrase "Reise, Reise" is used by seamen as a wake-up call and finds its roots in the Middle High German verb "risen", which meant "to rise" (to which it is obviously related as well). This verb has since died out in New High German, though the noun was retained and came to mean "journey" or "voyage". The verb "reisen" was rederived from the noun "Reise", but now means "to journey" or "to travel". It seems the old meaning has been preserved in this phrase in the seaman's language. (Jeremy Williams. "Reise, Reise". Herzeleid.com. May 29, 2005. http://herzeleid.com/en/lyrics/reise_reise/reise_reise)
And besides, which sounds better? Arise, arise, seaman arise or journey, journey, seaman journey
--Der Sporkmeister 04:24, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
It's probably intended to be both, knowing Rammstein. Los, anyone? --Made2Fade 13:24, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
in german reise,reise are reise,reise not travel,travel this is bad transion pleas correct this david 34 years from germany
[edit] Merging
One of the singles of this album was up for deletion as falling below the inclusion criteria for recordings per WP:MUSIC (which it probably did, not having reached No. 1). It was commented that there was an article on each of several other tracks on the album, including some which had never been released as singles. I have merged all this into this article and left redirects to save the pain of endless AfD debates. Nobody bears any malice against Rammstein, and there is no doubt that the band and its albums pass the notability test. I did the same a while back on another album. This is a general encyclopaedia, not a fanzine, so excessive detail about minor tracks on major albums is generally considered unnecessary unless it has some particular relevance. I hope the merge has preserved the information content. - Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] (W) AfD? 16:18, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] morgenstern
isn't it the "morning star" a subliminal reference to lucifer? "14:12 How have you fallen from heaven, Lucifer, the morning star? You have been cut down to earth, You who cast lots on nations." well i think it is. no no i'm not some insane god lover or whatsoever trying to attack the german devil, i just thought it would be intersting to notice that.
- It could be, but it doesn't matter in the context of Wikipedia. Interpretations of songs are always subjective, and as such do not belong in Wikipedia entries, unless of course it is a band member or other prominent figure commenting on what it means to them. ~MDD4696 22:51, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Reise, Reise (song)
Why is there no section for the first track? It's a famous song in its own right, isn't it? My German's not good enough to write a section for it, though. Also, the songs without sections in the "Track Listing" section are just redirects back to this page, or worse, in the case of "Morgenstern," links to a disambiguation page! I'm going to unlink those which do not have sections; if somebody wants to write a section for them, they can put a link to that section in. Foxmulder 18:30, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Different issue, same song
Recently an addition of an interpretation by an unfounded poor translation of the song Reise, Reise was added. It was added by my roomate in attempts to both trick me into believing his ideas, and secondly "prove" that he was in the right. The bit about homosexual undertones. I can understand the idea, but was based on a single line in the song in which was translated from "zum (zu dem) Mann" to "into a man" by an amature translator in England who specifies that his words are the LITERAL meaning as a tool for fans to get a grasp on what is being said, and cannot possibly convey the nuances intended. I'm removing the addition, because the ego of my roomate is at stake.
- you're both gay.
[edit] Removed link to custom video
Wikipedia isn't the place for custom video links, it's for official videos only.
[edit] cleanup
This article suffers from an unencyclopedic, junior-high tone. Also, it doesn't really make clear whether or not the album really makes JA Flight 123 a central theme, or just haphazardly samples the CVR. --70.108.80.26 10:08, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Music Video for Ohne Dich a reference to the Andes Flight Disaster
The video for Ohne Dich is clearly a reference to the Andes Flight Disaster. (Uruguayan_Air_Force_Flight_571) Where the survivors of the crash ran out of food, and had to cannibalize their dead teammates. This ties into the theme, with Mein Till, being about cannibalism. As well as a general theme throughout the album, which seems to be about bad traveling experiences. As well as issues with other countries, like with the songs Amerika and Moskau. Violet yoshi 06:49, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
