Talk:Redskin (slang)

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Contents 1 Origin of term? 2 How is 'redskin' pejorative in the contemporary sense? 3 Controversy 4 Folk Etymology

[edit] Origin of term?

I have heard of two other theories for origin of the term. One is based on the use of red ochre by the Beothuk. The other is the use of annatto seeds for ceremonial skin dyes by the Arawak and various South American Indians. --Eoghanacht 17:55, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)

I've heard of the first in a history class i took. 00:27, 8 November 2006 (UTC)~

[edit] How is 'redskin' pejorative in the contemporary sense?

I know many that use redskin in a non-derogatory way. I've known indians that weren't offended when I use the term redskin. I don't take offense when someone calls me white. There is a difference between a word being derogatory in origin but is adopted by that culture in later times.

I agree fully. There's nothing inherently pejorative about the term. "Redskin" and "Pale Face" even enjoy a certain amount use as terms of affection between the two races. I imagine that there are some Native Americans who dislike the term (just as some, maybe even more understandably, hate the word "Indian"), just as there are some who find the terms white, black, and yellow offensive. (Though "yellow" is probably a special case, since it is sometimes associated with cowardice, there are still some contexts in which few if any people would be offended by it, such as in "all people, whether White, Black, Red, or Yellow, should be treated equally", in which the usage is very explicitly non-derogatory.)

Although, this may depend on the area or the individuals involved. For example, a Native American would probably not be offended by being called a "Redskin" by a White friend who he knows to be anything but a racist, but might strongly object to being called a "Redskin" by a member of the KKK. Likewise, in areas where Native Americans are the largest racial "minority", there has probably already been a long history of mutual cooperation and friendship between the Whites and "Redskins" of the area (and many Whites who very proudly boast a Native herritage), who would not immediately think any word was intended pejoratively unless given good reason to do so. I know in my area, where racism against Mexicans and Asians is somewhat common (and sadly, even expected), the idea of racism against Natives is strange and alien, since the Whites and the Redskins here have such a long history together and such a strong respect for one another. Although that might also have to do with the fact that most of the cities in my area were founded by Scottish and Irish immigrants who were treated as outcasts in the rest of the U.S., so the Whites who settled here in the early years knew first-hand how hurtful prejudices and stereotypes could be.

In any event, it's not really accurate (and more than a little ignorant) to say that the word "Redskin" is a pejorative, when it is clearly not an offensive word in all contexts, and may even be, as mentioned above, a term of as a term of affection. --Corvun 00:01, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

I'm Indian and I know alot of my Indian brothers are not at all offended by the term redskin, it seems to me like you non Indians are trying to tell us what we are offended by

See this article for an Indian who is offended by the word. Dylan Thurston 18:59, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

---

The names of pro sports teams in the U.S. are chosen to get crowds into stadiums. To honor a relative, or anything so personal, would have to be secondary.

Eh? If you're talking about the NFL Redskins, they were named in honor of their half-Sioux coach - not exactly an unprecedented step, as I'm sure Cleveland Browns fans would agree.

[edit] Controversy

The article says:

In recent years the name has become controversial with some Native American groups and their supporters arguing that since they view the word "redskin" as an offensive slur that it is inappropriate for a NFL team to continue to use it, regardless of whether any offense is intended.

Has the name really only become controversial in recent years? Or is that expressing a point of view? Is there a source that shows the name to be non-controversial until a certain, recent point?--72.73.25.176 01:22, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Folk Etymology

The purported etymology of 'redskin' from the practice of offering bounties for scalps is ahistorical and demonstrably false; it is as such not encyclopedic, and does not belong here. The OED, Second Edition, cites the following quotation, from 1699: Ye firste Meetinge House was solid mayde to withstande ye wicked onsaults of ye Red Skins. It OBVIOUSLY DOES NOT refer to scalps or anything of the sort. Spider Jerusalem 06:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Is this really true? I haven't found anything in my research to show that the term 'redskin' did not have any association with scalping and bounties. Clearly, it could have been had more than one connotation! TronNDoE 03:40, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I found this doing a google search: http://www.aics.org/mascot/redskins.html MASCOTS - Redskins origin of the term The Term Redskin Dear Editor; It was brought to my attention that some were asking if the term "redskin" was really offensive to Indians and that they would like to hear from us on this subject. Well, here you are...I am Blackfoot, Cherokee and Choctaw...and yes, the term is extremely offensive to me. Let me explain why. Back not so long ago, when there was a bounty on the heads of the Indian people...the trappers would bring in Indian scalps along with the other skins that they had managed to trap or shoot. These scalps brought varying prices as did the skins of the animals. The trappers would tell the trading post owner or whoever it was that he was dealing with, that he had 2 bearskins, a couple of beaver skins...and a few scalps. Well, the term "scalp" offended the good Christian women of the community and they asked that another term be found to describe these things. So, the trappers and hunters began using the term "redskin"...they would tell the owner that they had bearskin, deer skins....and "redskins." The term came from the bloody mess that one saw when looking at the scalp...thus the term "red"...skin because it was the "skin" of an "animal" just like the others that they had...so, it became "redskins". So, you see when we see or hear that term...we don't see a football team...we don't see a game being played...we don't see any "honor"...we see the bloody pieces of scalps that were hacked off of our men, women and even our children...we hear the screams as our people were killed...and "skinned" just like animals. So, yes, Mr./Ms. Editor...you can safely say that the term is considered extremely offensive.

In Struggle, Tina Holder Mesa, Az.

Proclamation issued in 1755 Given at the Council Chamber in Boston this third day of November 1755 in the twenty-ninth year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lord George the Second by the Grace of God of Great Britain, France, and Iceland, King Defender of the Faith. By His Honour's command J. Willard, Secry. God Save the King

Whereas the tribe of Penobscot Indians have repeatedly in a perfidious manner acted contrary to their solemn submission unto his Majesty long since made and frequently renewed. I have therefore, at the desire of the House of Representatives ... thought fit to issue this Proclamation and to declare the Penobscot Tribe of Indians to be enimies, rebels, and traitors to his Majesty. And I do hereby require his Majesty's subjects of the Province to embrace all opportunities of pursuing, captivating, killing, and destroy all and every one of the aforesaid Indians.

And wereas the General Court of this Province have voted that a bounty.... be granted and allowed to be paid out of the Province Treasury.... The premiums of bounty following viz:

For every scalp of a male Indian brought in as evidence of their being killed as aforesaid, forty pounds.

For every scalp of such female Indian or male Indian under the age of twelve years that shall be killed and brought in as evidence of their being killed as aforesaid, twenty pounds.

Please feel free to comment or ask questions about this issue. You can contact teh author (not me); [removed email for protection against spambots]