User talk:Read3r

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Contents 1 Hello 2 Hello 3 History of Ancient Libya 4 Berber beliefs 5 Western Sahara and Berbers 6 I agree 7 hello 8 Berber portal 9 Re Moroccan culture 10 Documentary Film on Abdelkarim 11 hello 12 Thank you for your detailed response 13 Dear Moroccan friend

[edit] Hello

Hi Read3r. Pre-Islamic religions in Morocco were mainly and in order of size:

• Paganism
• Catholicism
• Judaism.

I am 32 Y.O. and you? Are you Turkish? -- Szvest 17:57, 8 August 2006 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up™}

No, I'm Moroccan. I wanted to write an article about the religion of the Berbers from the down of the history untill the present time. Are you interested? Read3r 18:06, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I am interested. I'll try to help. -- Szvest 18:28, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Great! thanks in advance. I'll try to begin it. By the way i wrote some additions concerning the name of the Berbers. Read it later and give me your opinion, please!Read3r 18:36, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

---

This is just a test. →

[edit] Hello

Read3r, thanks for your comment on my talk page. You are right and I've responded to you 'on "Allah" and "God" Debate' here : [1] . "Allah" seems to be actually "Al - Elah" which simply means "The - God". --Aminz 01:54, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Aminz, for your reply. I think i couldn't express correctly what i wanted to say, due to my unsuffecient English. But gave somehow an answer wich is almost the same answer you gave in the case i could express my question correctly. Best regards.Read3r 10:11, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History of Ancient Libya

Hello, i read the article History of Ancient Libya, i was interested in such article because there are very few articles on the ancient libya. But i think there is a misunderstanding. The article seems to go on the history of Libya not on the ancient Libya. The modern Libya was a part of ancient Libya, like as Morocco, algeria, Tunesie, and a part of Egypt. Did you write your contribution supposing that the history of ancient Libya is the same history of modern Libya? Best regards! Read3r 18:19, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

My main contribution was to separate Islamic/ottoman/modern Libya. I have resources related to Ottoman period, or can reach, and the History of Ancient Libya was a text most probably originated from 1911 Britannica, but not sure. I do not have extensive knowledge for the period (ancient) to make drastic assumptions, like yours. I believe the 1911 was based on regional perspective. I'm not so sure your path is right which removes the concept of "Ancient Libya" out of Libya or makes it bigger than the modern Libya. I stood with 1911. Your argument on the modern (nationalism based) is not enough to make that article a separate and eliminate it from that series. It feels you created a fork. But these are my personal views, and I can not help you to solve this question objectively. Initial reaction is I do not agree with your changes. I wish you would have kept as it in the form of 1911 and then improve the missing parts or give the corrections with their explanation. This would have created a guide for the readers. Thanks.--OttomanReference 23:09, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I think you confuse ancient Libya and modern Libya. all you have to do is to change the title from "the history of ancient Libya" to "the history of Libya" because using the first title for the content of the second one is misleading. You can revert my changes, but you have to change the title. I would like to write an article on the ancient Libya, but i don't think i have the enough motivations to do that. Should we keep your original version and change the title to "History of Libya". but you see there is already an article named "history of Libya". Personally, i think we should avoid the reference to Modern-Libya-related categories until someone would change the contenet. Read3r 15:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Berber beliefs

I must congratulate you of the good and serious work involved in the creation of such an interesting article Read3r. I'll be reading it and give you my opinions and comments. Keep up the good work. By the way, where are you from? Nador? -- Szvest 12:30, 5 September 2006 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up ®}

Thanks for the corrections. If you think there are some mistakes, let me know that, please! Sometimes i misunderstand my sources and that leads to some mistakes. I'm Riffian, but not from Nador.Read3r 12:54, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

There are plenty of sourced materials at Google books. Here's the link. I am collecting some and synthetizing them before inclusion. -- Szvest 13:56, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

My most sources are arabic articles. Should I include them on the page? I thought i would use them as sources to defend the content of the article, but i don't think they have to be included on the page, because the most readers are not arabic-speaking. If you want some sources to read there more about, i can post them.

I saw the new section "Islamic-Berber beliefs". I think i will later add new section, like as follows: Judaism in North Africa, Christianism in North Africa and Islam in North Africa.Read3r 15:55, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Non-english sources can be used especially when no english sources are found. For more info, refer to Wikipedia:Reliable sources#Sources in languages other than English. There are specific tags when non-english references, sources or external links are used. (i.e. (Arabic), (Dutch), (French), etc). -- Szvest 17:12, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I did. Have a look! Berber_beliefs#Sources || [This was a good reference too, but it is not online any more]. Best regards! Read3r 20:00, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I've moved the article from Berber beliefs to Berber mythology in order to remain consistent w/ other articles about people's groups mythology. Berber beliefs still redirects there. -- Szvest 14:50, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I saw that. I preferred the title "Berber Beliefs" because it sounds better when the article would include the monotheistic religions since the word "mythology" is mostly associated with the pagan religions. But no problem. the other religions are "myths" too. Best regards Read3r 15:12, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree w/ you. I prefer "beliefs" but there's a reason for that. Anyway, both are valid as a redirect. -- Szvest 16:16, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your interesse! Read3r 16:54, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Western Sahara and Berbers

Arabs? It is clearly the case that North African Arabs are intermixed ethnically with Berbers, so Sahrawis are Berber in a genetic sense. Linguistically, they speak a peculiar dialect of Arabic, and identify with Arab culture over and above Tamazigh. In that regard, I'd definitely agree that Sahrawis are more Arab than Berber, or if I had to choose one ethnic group, I would clearly choose Arab. As for the flag being separatist, that's unfounded and simply untrue. If the purpose of the portal is for self-identifying, identity politics of Berbers, then I guess it makes sense to leave off the Sahara. If the purpose is to draw together all of these similar people groups, then the Sahara belongs. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 18:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Like as you say they have maybe some Berber genes, but it would be unimaginable to relate all the people having some Berber genes to to the Berber portal. Therefore, i'm emphasizing to avoid that definition. They are arabs, and are not counted as Berbers. and they are identically arabs [I believe the most of them are genetically arabs]. When wikipedia will count the western saharans as berbers we will add that portal to the berbe portal. And by the way, i'm interested how the western saharan flag is not separatist.Read3r 18:41, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

you can see this map to see that Western Sahara is the last region in northwest africa that can be related to the Berbers:

Read3r 18:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I agree

I enjoy my programming, Iv'e been doing it since I was 10 and am becoming rather good. --JiMoThY^TALK 15:12, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] hello

My name is Eliko, and I've read somewhere that you speak tarifit. I'm interested in the meaning of a word in tarifit: DIGHET (or something like that).

Can you translate this word, DIGHET, into english, for me?

Does it mean sheep?

By the way, In the Island of Djerba (Tunisia) there's a site - named: "Houmet beni dighet". the berber dialect spoken in Djerba (Tunisia) is supposed to be rather similiar to tarifit, since both dialects belong to the Zenati sub-family of the berber languages, not like the other moroccan berber dialects.

Eliko 17:43, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello Eliko, "Dighet" can be "Tghat" or "Ighed" in my language. The first word means "Goat" and the second one means "A young goat" (the son of the goat). I found this on the internet in French:

Il faut mettre en rapport le nom de la chèvre, taghatt', avec celui du chevreau egheyd / ighid : les racines dont ils sont issus, GHD' et GhYD ne sont sans doute que des variantes, le passage de d à d' dans une même racine étant attesté dans le cas pan-berbère de aydi, pl. id'an "chien". D'ailleurs, dans quelques dialectes, le d de ighid s'emphatise au féminin :

-egheyd "chevreau" (Touareg)

-ghid "chevreau" (Nefousi)...

I hope i could help you.Read3r 11:19, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Berber portal

Hi Read3r. Welcome back. Please have a look at Portal talk:Berbers. -- Szvest 11:53, 26 October 2006 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up ®}

One more thing. Could you please help editing Berber carpet? -- Szvest 11:54, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, could you please vote at Berber-stub for deletion? -- Szvest 11:57, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi FayssalF, Thank you for referring to the current discussions concerning the Berbers. There are some problems with the categorizing of the Berber related articles, because as example: a kabylian related article can be categorized as berber and then the sub-berber group, like as berber and kabyle; In any way, i voted for the stubs created by you because it seems to be more accepted. I'll try to expand some berber related articles if i can. the problem is that i'm not motivated enough to write a serious article because of my bad english, mode and knowledge. I'm by the way not back, because i always check my watchlist but i don't dare to write constantly. Best regards Read3r 13:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re Moroccan culture

Re Arabic Cinema. User:Thisisthepope left that article he had created in his namespace. The way it was written is a kind of an essay and for that reason it was deleted. Thanks for the note.

Back to our subject. It is widely known that the Berbers arrived to the western side of north Africa between 10,000 and 2,500 BC. The Nile connection is reiforced by the extinsive reach of the berber languages which are part of the Afro-asiatic linguistic family that includes old Egyptian. (Paula Hardy, Heidi Edsall, Mara Vorhees; Morocco - ISBN: 1740596781)

It should be noted that the Mechtoids, named after the type population of Mechta-Afalou, represent a grouping of distinctive Terminal Pleistocene population known from North Africa[.] They are distinguished by a suite of characteristics: gabled cranial vault, low rectangular orbits, wide inter-orbital region, massive mandibles with everted gonial angles, and considerable postcranial robusticity with marked transverse enlargement[.]

Mechtoids are known from the whole expanse of North Africa during the Terminal Pleistocene: from Egypt and the Sudan [Nubia] (Wadi Kubbaniya c. 20,000 BC, Jebel Sahaba 14,000-12,000 BC) (MacDonald, K C, 1998. Archaeology, Language, and the Peopling of West Africa: a consideration of the evidence, in R Blench & M Spriggs (eds), Archaeology and Language II: archaeological data and linguistic hypotheses, 45,56. London: Routledge)

The Mechtoid ("Mechta-Afalou") is a tall, robust modern type similar to Cro-Magnon, with a broad skull. It has been suggested that that this race contributes the depigmented element of Berbers in North Africa. They were orthognathous and also had strong zygomata and broad nasal openings (despite a jutting nose). They also had a slightly keeled skull.

It was the time when the contact was made between the "proto-berbers" and the mechtoides (cro-magnon) autochtone of the region. (Francisco García-Talavera C. LAS CANARIAS ORIENTALES Y VECINA COSTA AFRICANA EN EL HOLOCENO; 1997)

From this puzzle, most historians suggest that the Berbers came westward during the shift from the Paleo-lithic to Neo-lithic period. Ibn Khaldoun and many others argue that the Berbers came from nowadays Yemen.

Please let me know about your comments when possible. -- Szvest 10:33, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Fayssal. Thanks for the reply. I think it is difficult to present any opinion as a historical fact. I blieve all the opionions concerning the origin of the berbers are speculations. In fact, this would also be the case of the other people's origins. It is hard to give non-disputed data about the origin of the race. But it is useful to read the several theories: The origin of the Berbers, by G. Camps/ Translation of حمو بوشخار + In french There are also some genetical essays, but i don't feel home with them. Every essay has its own conclusion, and i'm not able to decide which is true or not. This is an example of an essay claiming the berbers have a central saharan origin: HLA genes in Arabic-speaking Moroccans: close relatedness to Berbers and Iberians. [I didn't click the link (because i've already read it). I hope it is still useable]. Best regards! Read3r 11:02, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Read3r. Actually my point reflects what is stated in mondeberbere.com. There were Mechtoides before the arrival Berbers. Consequently, my point is that it is not important if the Berbers came from east or north but that they found the mechtoides in the maghreb. -- Szvest 12:18, 31 October 2006 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up ®}

Yes, G. Camps stated that the mechta-afalou race cannot be considered as a "direct ancestor" of the Berbers.

The point is that we cannot say that the berber come from any place. It is never proven or even claimed [by serious scholars] that the Berber culture emerged anywhere excepts North Africa. The berber culture is independent from its ancestors. It is the result of more than a race in the sense that it would not be correct to say that a berber is the berber with capsian characters less the Mechta-afalou characters. Because H₂O is not more H or O. With other words, The race that gave birth the Berbers might be western or eastern, but North africa is the birthplace of the berbers in the sense that they are indigenous to north africa. Best regards Read3r 14:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I found something: It is proposed that Imazighen (Caucasoid Berbers living at present in the North African coast and Saharan areas) are the remains of pre-Neolithic Saharan populations which could emigrate northwards between about 8000–6000 B.C., when desert desiccation began. They also could be part of the stock that gave rise to Sumerians, Cretans and Iberians; this is supported by both linguistic and HLA genetic data.[2]Read3r 20:03, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Documentary Film on Abdelkarim

Hi, I would like to share this documentary film with you, it is about Abdelkarim elkhattabi's Rif war. It is in Arabic, Tarifit and Dutch:
http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/streams?/nps/maroc/abdelkrimdeel1.rm http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/streams?/nps/maroc/abdelkrimdeel2.rm Read3r 16:56, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Read3r. Thanks for the links. The problem is that i can't open them for some reason. Could you please let me know about the content if you think we can add them to the article of Abd el-Krim. -- Szvest 18:07, 11 November 2006 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up ®}

Hi Fayssal, Maybe, you can open it whith "RealPlayer" if it is installed on your PC. The film is one hour long, with much information and emotions. Therefore, it is hard to summarize it. I linked to them for personal interest, not for encyclopedic aims. The interviews are done with a near family member of abdelkarim elkhattabi who is recently dead Read3r 14:25, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] hello

Thank you very much for your answer (a month ago) about the tunisian-berber word "dighet", and about the riffi words "tghat" and "ighed" (your answer was given on 17.10.06).

Unfortunately, I don't speak berber at all, but I know that the word "dighet" (in Tunisia) is supposed to be a tribe's private name, or a district name where this tribe lived. By the way, I haven't yet found out the meaning of the first letter "d" in this tunisian-berber name, "dighet": is this "d" an itegral part of the whole word, or does this "d" mean "the", or "this", or something else?

By the way, do you think it's possible (grammatically) to translate "dighet" as "the ash" (i.e. "la cendre" in french)?

You've helped me much.

Have a wonderful day.

Eliko 19:49, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Eliko, Maybe i would disappoint you because the knowledge is disappointing in many occasions. I read your question on the Berber phora by the way, you were even online on Kabyle.com/forum when i read the other replies :D.

Back to your question. i don't know whether you had a part of the answer to seek for the affirmation. Forgive me to be a bit impersonel: Are you jew?!. Don't mind if you don't want to answer. I won't insist!. [Edit: I have now read your "userpage" and i'm right, you're a jew]

You ask whether d is an integral part of the whole word or whether it does men "the" or "this" or something else. My aswer: In the Berber language [Be aware that i'm generalizing here my personal Tarifit language after some comparisons with other berber dialects] we don't use any "the-article" [le, la, les in frensh or el in arabic]. Yeah that is strange. In the Berber language we can mainly distinguishe two sorts of names, feminine and masculine names. The feminine names begin with "t" and ends with a "t". The masculine names begin with an "a". in the plural forms the first "t" in the feminine names becomes "ti" and the last "t" in the end becomes "in". Tamazight [berber woman]=> Timazighin [Berber women].... [Masculine names: Amazigh [Berber man] => Imazighen [Berber men]].

The word given by you is "Dighet". Is this a Berbe word? Actually, i'm not sure; But we can suspect it of being a Berber word, because there is a "t" in the end, and it does begin with a "d", a letter wich is related to the "t" [The last "d" is read "t" in Dutch]. Moreover, it can be an influence of the so-called "Idgham" (ادغام) in arabic since it would be difficult to read the "t" + "d" after each others: "Tdighet", thus. If "Tdighet" would be a Berber word, i don't know its meaning, too.

The full tribe name given by you is "houmet beni dighet". When you asked me that question for the first time, i couldn't see anything special in it. "Houme" is the same word as the moroccan arabic word meaning "neighborhood". "t" of the last letter in "houmeT" means "of" + beni or bni meaning "sons, descendants" + tighet which would be a surviving arabized berber word, I thought.

Supposing that the word "houme" is a standard arabic word used out of its context in the maghribi language by the original berber people who wanted to learn arabic what the prais would be to be associated with the arab-islamic civilization, i had to wonder why the word "beni/beni" is a correct standard arabic word in the maghribi language although the usual word is "ouled" in the maghribian language. When i read some articles about the jews i notice that the jews tended to use the word "beni" instead of "ouled" contrary to the maghribian dialects. and although i don't speak the hebrew language i can suppose it's a hebrew word too [because both arabic and hebrew are related [Hebrew and arab are supposed to have the same meaning in the semitic language]]. and that is the reason why it is maintained by the maghribian jews in their arabic. Knowing that Djerba was a center of the tunisian jewish communities, i began to wonder whether the name "houmet beni dighet" whould be named by the jews. Occasionally, i was not the only one who supposed that, i found this too:

The priestly refugees from Jerusalem settled in a village nearby this new sanctuary and were the founders of Hara Sghira, also known as Dighet, a supposedly Berberized form of the Hebrew delet, meaning door.[3]

[This answer was also given to you on tamazight.biz]For this reason, i believe you can search the meaning of that word in jewish phora [just a tip]. You can also read my sub-article on Judaism in Northwest Africa if you're interested. Read3r 12:28, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Addition: Here is also an interesting link, by the way you can ask how the hebrew "L" can be changed to "gh" in Djerba. The "L" is generally changed in many cases in the Tarifit languge. The arabic "L" is usually changed in "r", and the berber "LL" is usually changed in "dj".Read3r 14:14, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you for your detailed response

1. Regarding "BENI". Yes, you are right: both Hebrew (which I speak fluently) and Arabic (of which I fluently speak the tunisain dialect) are kin languages, thus sharing the two common words: "WALAD" (existent in both classic Arabic, and biblical Hebrew - as one can see e.g. at Genesis 11, 30), and "IBN"/"BEN" (the second version being the hebrew one). Your guess about the usage in Hebrew is correct, and even more than correct: on one hand, the hebrew word "BEN" generally means "son" (as the classic arabic word "IBN" does); on the other hand, when Hebrew-speakers want to mean "those belonging to the tribe/nation of", they actually say "the sons of", thus using the hebrew word: "BENÉ"/"BENEÏ"/"BNEÏ"/"BNÉ" (depending on the various hebrew dialects), with the stress/accent being always on the last sylable. Such a usage is very common in the bible (e.g. in the famous biblical term: "the sons of Israel", and the like), as well as in the spoken hebrew language.

2. Regarding the jewish legend about the hebrew origin of the word "DIGHET": I don't believe this legend, and reject it - mainly due to phonetic reasons: the hebrew word "DELET" (which really means: "door") can never become "DIGHET": as you correctly indicated, the "L" and "R" are interchangeable, and that's true - not only among some berber dialects - but also in many other languages (including the semitic and indo-european ones, and so on). However, this universal phenonemon can happen only if the "R" is pronounced as the arabic letter "RA" (i.e. the spanish "R"), but the "L" can never become "GH" - pronounced as the arabic letter "GHAIN" (i.e. the french "R")! Apparently, one could (hardly) justify such a phenomenon of "R" becoming "GH" - only by suggesting two evolutionary waves: in the beginning - the "L" became "R" (as happened among some berber dialects), and later (maybe even some centuries later), when the speakers could no longer utter the "R", they began to replace the "R" by "GH" - as really happened (e.g.) to the arabic letter "RA" in some lybian dialects of Arabic, and to the latin (and spanish) "R" which became "GH" in French. However, such an explanation is impossible when tried to be applied to the tunisian word "DIGHET", since Djerba residents (as well as all of the tunisians) had never had any difficulty to pronounce the arabic letter "RA", nor a difficulty to utter the "L", and that's true also when one refers to the jews in Djerba, who have (just as their moslem neighbours do) three different consonants: "L" and "R" and "GH". Furthermore, there are no traces of such an interchangeability between "L" and "GH" in any other word in Tunisia (and probably in all of North Africa as a whole). I don't know whether there is any testimony of such an interchangeability (between "L" and "GH") in any human language.

3. Ragarding the grammatical articles in Berber: I have realy heard and read a lot about the absence of grammatical articles in Berber, but some people (including rifians) told me that - in their own specific berber dialect - "D" may mean "the", and others told me about other meanings of the "D", as (e.g.) "this is".

4. What about the possibility of translating "DIGHET" as "the ash"?

Eliko 18:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the information too. Sorry for my late reply. I agree with you that claiming tha dighet would be derived from the hebrew word "Delet" is unconvincing. Because like as you stated it is not languistically proved since we don't know how the "l" would be changed in "Gh", and above all because the jews in North Africa spoke the Berber language, no hebrew, as far as i'm aware. Now, i don't have any serious explanation for the word. But i will late answer your question related to the Tarifit language. Best regards! Read3r 15:20, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

1. When the original jews reached North Africa (more than two thousand years ago), they of course hadn't spoken berber - but hebrew only, and that was the language they were using when they settled in their new place.

2. In ancient times, and during the last thousands of years, the jews throughout the world - including North Africe - have always been religious, and every religious jew in the world (also nowadays) must understand some hebrew for religious purposes (e.g. prayers, religious studies, etc.). Most of the religious jews (not only in Israel) speak hebrew in a native (or a near-native) level.

Eliko 16:11, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Like as i said i will give my opinion about the questions related to Tarifit:

• the Tarifit word for "Ash" is "Tnifest". So, i don't see any relationship between them. If he meant "Dhaghesht" (or dhagit) which means "Jamra" in Arabic and live coal in English if i'm not mistaken, i still find it strange to consider both the word to be related.

• "D" as "this (is)": That has to be corrected. It is "Tha" for female nouns. In some Tarifit dialects it becomes "Dha", like as the "T" at the beginning of the female nouns become "Dh". Example: Tamza, Thamza and Thamza. There is no "the" in the Berber language. In any case the "Tha" is used in Tarifit after the nouns when there is a noun. So it canot be in the first of DHighet.

as far as your last comments are concerned, i even don't think spoke a daily hebrew, from what i read the jews were settled in Cyrenaica by a Greek Egyptian ruler. Those jews may be spoke Egyptian or Greek. And it is hard to convince me that they emigrated immediatly to North west africa after destroying their temple. If such emigration was probable then it was a question of tens since the jews themselves were brought by other people: Phoenicians, some sources claimed. In the modern times we have berber who need and know some arabic for religious aims, nevertheless, they are not arabic speaking they are repeating it. Some of them believe even they are from the Arabian peninsula. Their only daily arabic is nothing others than the names and some Religious statements. I suppose it was the same case for the North African jews.

That is not our subject, I have a question for you. Do you think the name of the ancient Tunesian/Libyco-Punic city/site Thugga/Dougga/Thukka would be related to the name "Dighet" ?Read3r 15:04, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you.

1. I don't think "dighet" is "dhagit", because the stress (accent) of dighet is on the first sylable, and because of the (little) differences between the consonants and the vowels. For eatablishing the connection between the two words - one needs more than couple of assumptions.

2. Which tarifit dialect do you speak? It can't be the dialect of Melilla, nor the dialect of al-Hoceima, since the people there reported me about the word "DIGHED" which may mean: either "this is a goat-kid", or "this is ash".

3. Does the "THA" (in female nouns) mean "this"?

4. I couldn't understand your sentence: "the "Tha" is used in Tarifit after the nouns when there is a noun". Could you give some examples?

5. Regarding the berber jews: they must have used Hebrew much more than the berber muslims use Arabic, because the jewish prayers are much (very much!) longer than the muslim ones, and vary according to the specific hour of the day and to the specific date of the year (e.g. the morning prayer is totally unlike the noon prayer, and both are absolutely unlike the evening prayer, and so on. Saturday prayer is definitely unlike that of the regular days, and both kinds of prayers are quite unlike the festival prayers, and so on). Furthermore, the jews have a special religious commandment: "Studying religious studies", whereas all of their numerous religious books are written in Hebrew only, so every religious jew must understand Hebrew very well, at least - as the ancient european scholars must have comprehended Latin. This is one of the reasons due to which the jews are named in the KOR'AN: "Ahl al-Kitab".

6. Regarding Thugga/Dougga/Thukka: I really don't know. Linguistically, one may find a connection ("u" may become "i", "gg" may become "g" and later "gh", and "ah" is interchangeable with "at" - as it is in berber and in ancient semitic languages). However, one needs here too many assumptions for the connection, so your proposal seems improbable.

7. Thank you again for your efforts.

Eliko 17:59, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dear Moroccan friend

While I understand that North Africa#Christianity in Northwest Africa is not much liked by you as a Muslim, my contents are perfectly verifiable. And, yes, according to the CIA Morocco - despite its liberal call worldwide - is still one of those countries most oppressive towards Christians (especially Roman Catholics). I reverted. Please provide sources, if you think my statements are INcorrect. Avec mes salutations respectueux,Smith2006 14:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

see Talk:Berber_mythology#Christianity_in_Northwest_Africa. Read3r 10:36, 7 December 2006 (UTC)