Talk:Raven
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I'm not certain moving all of the text to Common Raven is a good idea. That leaves pretty much nothing under this entry, and while the common raven is at the top of the links list, it's likely that most people would reach this page first. It might be a better idea to move the common raven page here, and keep the link list at the end of the article along with a note that 'raven' is also used to refer to members of these other species. At the very least, it seems to me that this page should discuss common characteristics and folklore — sort of like Fox does. Or maybe get rid of it completely and have 'Raven' redirect to 'Common Raven.' What's there now under 'Raven' just seems to needlessly complicate the search for information. Shimeru 08:58, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)
- I've added a comment that raven is used as synonym for Common Raven to point people towards that article. The folklore, literature etc I moved all refers to the Common Raven, and not to the group in general.
- What other common characteristics are there apart from large, black and corvids? I don't think I moved any, please add any new ones.
- There are numerous, often very short, articles at the genus or subgenus level, which serve a useful purpose in identifying the characteristics and members of the group.
- merging the articles is a bad idea. A couple of years ago, it took ages to sort out the corvids, with species, genera and subgenera being confused and carry incorrect material. We have articles for jay, magpie etc, why not raven? jimfbleak 09:24, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
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- I'm with Jim. After looking at the other raven species, its obvious that the only one the myths (and Poe) would logically have meant was the Common Raven, therefore the mythology is applicable there and only there. Foxes are a different case, because some of the myths could apply to many species of fox, so its best to keep the information on Fox. [[User:Premeditated Chaos|PMC]] 20:10, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
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- Fair enough. I still think it's a bit convoluted, but I'll defer to your experience. Shimeru 23:57, Dec 23, 2004 (UTC)
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[edit] Common Raven?
Is a raven common? The difference between a not-so-common and a common rave is, what? Are they referring to crows in the group as well? There is a difference between Ravens & Crows, their size and they have different shaped tails. So,why not omit the term "common" and stick with raven? Afterall, when doing my search (and I am a Librarian), the easiest search term and most common (joke intended) is "raven" the term "common" omitted.--66.42.119.127 01:29, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- There is a difference between raven, the group of large corvids, which does not, incidentally, include the crows and rooks which share the genus, and Common Raven, which is a single species, Corvus corax. The latter on any reasonable basis is the most widespread and common of the group, occuring over most of the northern hemisphere.
- If you merge the two articles, how will you distinguish the ravens as a group from the species Corvus corax? jimfbleak 06:18, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
What about the talking raven, Thor, at the Tower of London? There is no mention of talking ravens on this page or the common raven page!
[edit] Collective nouns
I removed the collective nouns from Raven and Lark for two reasons.
Firstly, even if correct, they do not apply to 'all Ravens and Larks, just Common Raven and Skylark. Secondly, these are made-up Victorian names that only appear on lists of collective nouns. As a birder of many years experience I have never heard either of these nouns actually used.
jimfbleak 05:17, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
