Talk:Raven (comics)

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Contents 1 Updated Costume? 2 Youthfulness in TV series 3 French name? 4 What about a picture? 5 Trigon 6 Move explained 7 Raven Animated Age 8 "Unlike the other Titans, Raven doesn't have an arch foe of any kind." 9 Rorek and Raven 10 Raven & Beast Boy's relationship 11 Black Raven... where? And what about Brown Raven? 12 Raven in 'Day of Vengeance'? 13 Is Raven a princess? 14 "To meet Wikipedia's quality standards, this article or section may require cleanup" 15 Relationships 16 Merging the Articles 17 Tags 18 That was me 19 Powers Section 20 OR? 21 Time 22 TNTT, Wolfman's Run 23 Umbrakinesis? 24 Talon's update log 25 Writer interviews? 26 Returned to the team?

[edit] Updated Costume?

"In addition, through various press releases and creators' blogs, it is suggested that Raven will return to the pages of Teen Titans with an updated costume (see the picture in the infobox) either on or before issue #39, as part of the "Titans Around the World" storyline starting in issue #38. A few aspects of her new costume, such as her belt, are based on that of her animated counterpart."

I believe this needs editting as the information is wrong, or I'm just misunderstanding it. As far as I know, Raven had her bodysuit during Infinite Crisis. I forgot which issue but there was a large spreadsheet of MANY characters during the Crisis, and you could see a tiny Raven with a bodysuit with the raven on her chest. Can anyone clarify and edit this? Maybe I'm just reading into it wrong. --LM22102 06:09, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I found it. Infinite Crisis #7 the two page spread of 34-35. You'll find her with Beastboy between one of the Green Lanterns and the Green Arrow. Clearly, she's wearing a body suit. So she had changed costume had the end of Infinite Crisis (or during, as she was seen in the crisis of Bludhaven with her dress.) But my point is that her costume change did not occur during OYL, but right after Infinite Crisis, maybe during. Maybe I'm just thinking too much into this. --68.104.30.122 06:16, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Youthfulness in TV series

There's a comment that in the animated series Raven appears younger. So how old does she look in the animated series? RJFJR 04:21, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

maybe you should look at the comic series and compare for your self, if your blind I can understand if you don't notice a diffrence.--BerserkerBen 12:18, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

That's not a number. RJFJR 14:31, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

When does "looks younger" mean a exact age? --BerserkerBen 18:25, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, So how old does she look... was supposed to ask if it is possible to describe it more accurately. I find it too hard to estimate a number for an age of an animated character. RJFJR 20:18, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

I really don't think it's important to know how old she is. --Neigel von Teighen 20:38, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

True. In the comics books she looked to be in her 20s. In the animated I'd say 16 to 20, but there's a big difference in there. I was just wondering if anyone could come up wtih a tighter estimate. Sorry about the bother. RJFJR 20:49, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

Who knows, seriously, I would also find it doubtful the producers will ever say what age the animated Raven is, nor do I think they even made up a age for her. Just assume young to be between the ages of 13-18, I would guess below 16 (because in the animated series cyborg is the only one that can drive a car)--BerserkerBen 23:04, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] French name?

I think Raven's name is French. Ravin in French means "gloomy". --Gravity Control

...That might be the root of the english word, but I'm positive her name simply refers to the bird of the same name, which is usually associated with gloom. --InShaneee 17:13, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What about a picture?

What about trying to find a good picture (without violating any copyright) of both Raven in the comic and in the animated series? It would spice this article up. --Neigel von Teighen 20:34, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I guess someone could find several images of the two((?)Raven may look diffrent from one comic series to another) and upload them, from what I have read in Here you can please those who are fanatic wiki-copyright @$$ @#$%^&$ by placing a tag like this in the image discription:

{{fairuse}}

You should also place the artist's name, date of creation and producers in the desciption in accordence with the wishes of WikiProject_Comics --BerserkerBen 04:50, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I found some, but I wonder if we really can use them...you should know that copyrights are something important to respect. A copyright violation like this, where DC Comics and Warner Bros. Studios (for the anim. series) are involved, can get the whole Wikimedia organization into judicial troubles. I don't know if 'fair use' can be applied...--Neigel von Teighen 17:22, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

If that were true then wiki would be royally screwed for images like these:[1][2][3]

and that just Batman! So no, I don't think uploading a image of Raven from the comics or animated series is something to worry about as long as the steps I descibe above are taken. --BerserkerBen 22:27, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I've added an image comparing both Ravens. What do you think? --Neigel von Teighen 23:11, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Looks fine, I doubt the site it came from had any copyrights to it either. --BerserkerBen 23:43, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'm now thinking the picture it's not eligible to copyright and, thus, is public domain. It's a cut-and-pasting from two different sources (WB Studios & DC Comics) and IMO it's not any intellectual/creative property.

I was also wondering if a WikiProject can be created for improving the articles about the Titans members. The best page concerning one of them is the Starfire article, from what I've seen. --Neigel von Teighen 14:21, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Why not just at WikiProject_Comics?

--BerserkerBen 21:39, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It's also a possibility. I think I'll do some contacts there and try to gather some people for this. --Neigel von Teighen 14:50, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It is obvious that Raven's image in the animated series is more beautiful and adorable than her comic counterpart. This is perhaps due to the drawing style. User:Imiraven

Um....what? TalonTheater

True but we still need a full body shot of the animated Raven

[edit] Trigon

Raven's father's name is confirmed to be Trigon in the animated series. The credits and series creators if anyone needs to know.

Fine enough, source it though, I bow to your superior geekiness :D --BerserkerBen 03:40, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Move explained

The reason I moved the article was because the article talks about both Raven the comic character and Raven the animated series character. Thus, DC Comics as the disambiguation makes more sense than simply comics. KramarDanIkabu 00:09, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Bad move. No page links to "Raven (DC Comics)" and the standard is to disambig as little as possible. Reverted. - SoM 14:52, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Raven (DC Comics) would have been the best title for the article when creating it, but now that it is created as Raven (comics) we can't do such a change, considering that the articles Teen Titans, Trigon (comics), Deathstroke the Terminator, etc. link to this page under the current title. --Neigel von Teighen 20:48, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I regretted the idea as soon as I moved it but didn't have a chance to change it back until now. Sorry for the problems. KramarDanIkabu 00:26, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Raven (animated series) is not always sarcastic and powerful. Given her strict control over her emotion and powers, many's the time she expresses normal emotions. Regarding this, her fears and vulnerability should be mentioned. An example is the episode "The Beast Within". [User:Imiraven]

[edit] Raven Animated Age

She's 13 in the animated seris they had a 13th birthday episode in the 4th season!

• 13!... Disastrous! The age doesn't fit at all with the character of the animated Raven. --Neigel von Teighen 22:31, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

She has a 16th birthday if I recall correctly, making her 15 prior to that. If she had a 13th birthday, that would make her 12 prior, and certainly not a 'Teen' Titan. Tyciol 18:05, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Her age is never actually stated, nor does it say what age she is turning in that episode. Michelle 00:20, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

• Are you sure her animated age wasnt stated im pretty sure she said it was her 13th birthday in the fourth season do we know which episode?Monkey2619 03:06, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Unlike the other Titans, Raven doesn't have an arch foe of any kind."

Why wouldn't Trigon count, or is this according to some very specific definition of 'arch foe'

Trigon is her arch foe, and Brother Blood maybe too... --Neigel von Teighen 16:54, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I'd support Trigon. --InShaneee 03:23, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I third Trigon. I mean, it's not really a Raven story without him, is it? --Gemtiger 02:24, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Then, I'll change that sentence. --Neigel von Teighen 22:00, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

In the animated series, Trigon is somewhat of her nemesis. In the DC comic, however, Brother Blood is more of her arch foe, ever since Trigon was killed. 09:44, 30 June 2006

Definitely Brother Blood. I mean, is he not after her every reincarnation? Even going so far as to making a new body AND bring out hell? Please. --LM22102 05:55, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps in the current run (even though Sebastion now officially dead). In TNTT, Blood claimed his power was "to resist [Raven's.] However, this "nemesis"-like side of him was too vague to consider them as such. - Talon

[edit] Rorek and Raven

What is all this stuff about Rorek the wizard (from episode "Spellbound") and Raven's powers? I mean, sure, Raven used white energy in that episode to defeat Kardiak, but she used that same exact color energy to defeat her mind's view of Trigon in "Nevermore", which the series seems to suggest occurred before Raven found the magical book. Plus, Rorek as a wizard was never seen (he was only seen in Malchior's dragon body, and that was only in the storybook sequences), so nobody knows his true intentions, or if he even knew about Trigon. I think you're giving Rorek more credit than he deserves, seeing as Rorek's only true purpose in that episode was as somebody with whom Malchior could switch bodies. --Numbuh3.14 12:58, 18 February 2006

I agree! I'd like an explanation from whoever put that in the article! I think whoever it was just made something up and then tried to present it as fact. -Unknown—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Evernut (talk • contribs).

[edit] Raven & Beast Boy's relationship

Is it okay that I added that link to that forum on BB/Rav shipping?

No. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of links. This BBS is not canonical, highly trafficed, or relevant to the article. --InShaneee 22:21, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

It is canonical to the comic, just not the series, although somewhat implied. Tyciol 18:05, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention as far as present continuity is concerned thanks to "OYL", the relationship is now neither stable nor permanent, it will obviously be approached again in the future (it clearly was big enough to force the two to leave the Titans and go seperate paths),but for now this is just Geoff's way of quickly creating a good mystery and giving him time to develop the new team for the readers.

[edit] Black Raven... where? And what about Brown Raven?

Okay, I read through and can find no information on Black Raven, and she does not appear in "Nevermore"--I just watched it and didn't see her anywhere. But I did see a Brown Raven who is not mentioned in the article!? I'll upload a pic to show what I'm talking about. Sweetfreek 09:13, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Update: The pics I was talking about are now up... incidently, Green Raven becomes red in color during the "swirling phase" of their fusion!? I'll keep the episode a little longer on my TiVo if someone can tell me when/where in "Nevermore" Black Raven appears... but I'm skeptical. In any case, enjoy. Sweetfreek 09:57, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I dunno...are all those pics really neccisary? Frankly, I think too much was made about the different colored Ravens as it is. --InShaneee 19:47, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't know of they are necessary or not, but let's let them there. --Neigel von Teighen 00:09, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Raven in 'Day of Vengeance'?

It says in The Spectre article that sometime in the Day of Vengeance storyline The Spectre made Raven unable to control her powers properly anymore. It doesn't say anything about that in the Raven article for some reason. Would someone who knows something about that please explain in the Raven article? -Unknown—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Evernut (talk • contribs).

Well, to be honest, it was his weakening of the magical system of the DCU that caused her powers to fade and go haywire, so it wasn't the Spectre specifically. Though as you noticed, I added a part about her powers, I guess we'll see in the mini-series the extent of them if they returned to full strength or not. Coyote42 00:13, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that up. :-) Evernut 15:23, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it was The Spectre that caused the magical system to weaken, I think, when he was on his conquest to destroy all magic.

[edit] Is Raven a princess?

Trigon is the ruler of an entire dimension... while I haven't specifically heard him called a King, he effectively is, making Raven a princess. In the comics I believe he offered to let her come and rule with him, I'll have to see if he makes the reference to 'princess'. I ask this because I'd like to include her in my list of warrior princesses. Thoughts? Tyciol 18:05, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that's a little too much of a stretch. Anyway, she did renounce her father. --InShaneee 18:44, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

It would render something like Lady Raven... as Lord Vader?? --Neigel von Teighen 21:27, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, in the series, Arella did mention this: "You forever had the love of your people, Raven, even knowing what you would become—and what that would bring." --User:Angie Y.

Technically, Raven is a demi-goddess, born of a human mother (Arella) and a demon-god father (Trigon)-User:Sh@z@m

Wouldn't she actually be a half-demon? Admittedly having a half-demon as a good guy is counter-intuitive, but I'd always thought of Trigon as more of a demon than an evil god. --Tim4christ17 20:24, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, she is a half-demon. Trigon saw her as a goddess, as she was his daughter, but that's solely because of his point of view. - TalonTheater

[edit] "To meet Wikipedia's quality standards, this article or section may require cleanup"

No kidding. I'm not going to make wholesale changes to the page without discussing it here first. But the "enemies" section is basically half of her character history. And the fact that there's more text on her skittles robes than the Trigon stories does not reflect well on the article. I do not see this newer organization as being progress, it was actually clearer as just one section that was simply in chronological order, without trying to organize stories by her wardrobe. Propose: 1. Move ALL the stuff on "Powers" to the very bottom, right before "Trivia". 2. Make a "Character history" section, place it right after or right before "personality". Put all the "Multiple colors of Raven" "Enemies" and "After Trigon stuff in it. 3. Break up the "Character History" section into three sections: Before the coming of Trigon (Nevermore stuff, Malchior, Terra, etc.), Trigon , and After Trigon. I think it would help make the page look a lot clearer.D1Puck1T 05:33, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I'll do anything you want. This article overwhelms me on top of all the other stuff I'm working on, but it needs to be fixed. If you want to tell me what to do, I'll do it, but I'm no Raven expert. --Chris Griswold 06:37, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I can do it, it's really just moving text around. But it's a big enough change that I want to give people some time to raise any objections first. A lot of the damage that (I believe) has been done to this article could have been avoided by people discussing their big changes here before implimenting them.D1Puck1T 15:35, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I say do it D1Puck, and your plan sounds like a good one. If you need any help, please feel free to drop a note on my talk page. -Markeer 02:05, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Relationships

Yeah... about all this "brother, sister, etc." stuff. Unless someone can give me an episode where she actually says "I think of you as a brother/sister/etc." I'm going to delete that whole section. Near as I can tell, it's entirely made up of people's interpretations of her relationships, and not on anything actually stated.

Please do. --InShaneee 21:08, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merging the Articles

I don't know why the article was split, and I'm really annoyed that it was without discussion. There's way too much overlap between the two versions of Raven to warrant two articles. I'd remerge the articles myself if I knew how.D1Puck1T 17:03, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Just copy/paste the content back and make the new page that was created a redirect back to the section. I definatly agree; there's a lot that can be edited out of the 'animated version' section to make it fit here. It does NOT warrant its own page. --InShaneee 15:16, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I restored the animated section in the article and deleted that "relationship" header. Now, it's time to organize this. I will try to start with that mess about Raven's colors. --Neigel von Teighen 23:05, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

It would be nice to (perhaps) have a character profile thing for the Raven of the TV series as well as for the "original" Raven. Also, it would be nice to make the "article" on the animated Raven rely less on the original one - as many of the younger readers are going to be familiar only with the TV series. --Tim4christ17 20:31, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I personally think the characters are different enough to warrant separate articles. If anyone wants me to, I'll help move the animated Raven out and make Raven (television) (only in architectural design, I'm not a fan of the TV show). --User:TalonTheater

[edit] Tags

I think that there are a number of obvious factual errors and inconsistencies in the article so I decided to double the tags so that someone will see it and fix it before it gets ANY worse. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.34.123.91 (talk • contribs) 21:14 July 13, 2006 (UTC)

Please never do that again. It didn't do anything except make the article look worse. --Chris Griswold 08:42, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] That was me

Fine, but this article is very, very poorly-researched and written. I can't go for more than a sentence without running into an inconsistency or a "fact" that is little more than hypothesizing and conjecture.

For example, look at this line:

In season three's episode "Spellbound", Raven dons her white attire as a result of her being attracted to the wizard Malchior.

This line implies that the sole reason for her white robes was that she was attracted to Malchior, when the episode itself strongly stipulates that she wears whites whenever she is in a particularly positive and happy mood. I find that this statement, along with all the others surrounding it, is very very inarticulate and clumsy. Personally, if this is the kind of sloppy, incompetent work that is put into Teen Titans articles then maybe tehy shouldn't be wrtten at all. I mean, what kind of garbage is that?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Smith Jones (talk • contribs) 20:19 July 16, 2006 (UTC)

Maybe you should put your energy into improving the article rather than insulting the people who have worked on it. CovenantD 00:27, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Seriously, dude. You seem really into this, so fix it. Also, please sign your comments. --Chris Griswold 01:29, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Powers Section

I've put in a list of the powers that where used either once or rarely. For reference: teleportaion (Go!), time manipulation (Birthmark), precognition (forgot the episode), rapid healing (Beast Within), magic spells (duh), creation of monsters (Fear Itself).

To CovenantD: If you want to revert my edit you MUST tell my why! I`m putting it back in.

To CovenantD: You've reverted it TWICE! Both times without telling me why. That is a violation of Wkipedia policy.

Now that it doesn't read like a 5 year old wrote it from memory... CovenantD 04:07, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

HUH?!! It's exactly the same as when I first created it!!!

I've heard from many sources that in the animated series Raven is seen several times to phase through solid objects. Could someone please tell me an episode in which she does this so I can include it in the "Other Powers" scetion? 200.31.197.194 21:29, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

This section is an eyesore. It takes up half the Contents box, making it harder to navigate the article. I do think most of what's there is notable, but does every individual power need its own section? Is there no way to organize it better?D1Puck1T 07:48, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Didn't she also perform Telepathy (in the animated series) when she entered Robin's mind in Haunted? DCincarnate

I would rather think of demonic possesion in that case (remeber where does Raven come from), but maybe also Telepathy. --Neigel von Teighen 13:54, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] OR?

In the Mantra (Animated) section there is are a couple paragraphs beginning one theory holds that sounds like WP:OR or speculation. Do people feel tehre is enough support to keep it in the article? RJFJR 20:26, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmph. Not really. There seems to be a lot of that, though, in relation to the animated version. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 20:32, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Speeking of her mantra someone states that metrion means state of mind or calm,relaxe but if so then what language is it

[edit] Time

Raven latest mini series seid to start in september but is that this year or the next, we need to put that in there so people arent making idots of them selfs

[edit] TNTT, Wolfman's Run

This article needs to contain more information on Marv Wolfman's run of The New Teen Titans, as that's where she was created and used best/most often. I'm working on that at the moment. - Talon

[edit] Umbrakinesis?

What in the world is Umbrakinesis?--Dil 23:29, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Control over shadows. --InShaneee 23:42, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talon's update log

I'm going to be working on this article over the course of the next week or so, so I'm going to add here any changes/additions I make. Feel free to reword or correct my edits if I'm wrong.

- Added Flight to abilities list.

- Added Limited Precognition to abilities list.

- Added this paragraph to Character History:

Raven's chronology is typically separated into three lives; her first life, 20 years, was spent in the Temple Azarath and creating The New Teen Titans. Her second life began once she started wearing the garb of White Raven, and lasted under two years. Her third life, which started in issue #3 of The Teen Titans III, is her current form; unlike the transition between her first and second lives, with her third life came a new body, that of a 17-year old.

- One thing I want to get across is that Raven is not a moody character due to her personality, but simply because her heritage demands that she remain emotionally stable. She herself is not dark, but her origins are. Going to change that first sentence now.

Original sentence: "A dark, moody character, Raven is the half-breed daughter of a human mother named Arella and the demon Trigon."

Updated sentence: "A character with morbid past and origins, Raven is the half-breed daughter of a human mother named Arella and the interdimensional demon Trigon."

- Added Give Emotion to abilities list.

Changed it to Force Emotion because if she is utililizing this ability, the reciever doesn't have a choice but to feel what she wants them to feel.

- I think the main page picture should be one representing Raven in her most well-known outfit, as opposed to the current one. This sketch by Mike McKone was on the issue #8 cover, so it is legal to add here (and is on many web sites legally); and while George Perez's and Mckune's designs have subtle differences, Mckune's sketch should be used simply because it was done in the modern age of comics, with more precise detail in the artwork:

- Added this image to "Infinite Crisis and 'One Year Later.'":

- Added spacers in the Character History article to represent and separate her three lives.

- Changed SuperheroBox to include "flight."

- Added this to "Infinite Crisis and 'One Year Later:'"

It will take place during the missing year.

Raven has also appeared as a minor character in "52" issues #1 (art only) and #21 (art and dialogue).

- Edited the SuperheroBox to comment that Arella is not deceased, but merged with the Souls of Azarath (and Danny Chase) to make the current Phantasm (who is in comic limbo at the moment, but apparently is in "New Azarath," a la hints from TTT #35-39).

- Added this image to the Powers section:

- Added this image to Raven's First Life:

- Added "Absent during Crisis on Infinite Earths":

Between the periods that we know to be Raven's first and second lives, Raven's whereabouts were unknown even to The Monitor, a character who has knowledge of all beings in all parallel dimensions that contain Earth. This suggests that during this period, Raven transcended Earth for a non-parallel dimension. Raven was briefly mentioned in one frame (Issue #2, page 22), suggested as an alterative to Psycho Pirate as an empath in the Monitor's plans. She was also mentioned as an alternative for the Anti-Monitor in Issue #5, page 2).

- Added the "interviews" section with these three:

MacDONALD: Raven's powers are very vague.

WOLFMAN: Not to me. She's the empath who can cure some illnesses, some problems. She can't cure death, or any major disease. She failed when trying to cure the Russian Starfire's girl friend. If it's small pains or hurts at least she can cure them, but it affects her. She can move through dimensions, which is the effect of teleportation

MacDONALD: How far can she go with that?

WOLFMAN: I would say about 100 miles. That's about it. We really haven't played with it or have her go more than 10 miles at any given point. But I'd say 100 is about the most. But it's not really teleportation, I was trying to get away from that. If Raven comes from an inter-dimensional place, I wanted to play on her origin. What else can she do? Her soul-self, that's the part of her that's Trigon, her father, the evil part of her, and that's also the part that's the aggressor, the one that actually stops all the villains. She's not able herself to fight. But the soul self does most of that for her, because it has all her aggressive tendencies.

MacDONALD And just what happens to those people when they get inside there?

WOLFMAN: Usually they are either sent away, teleported away, or they fall down and faint, or she learns something from them.

MacDONALD: lt's nor very nice in there is it?

WOLFMAN: No. It's awful (laughter]. In fact, in issue #29,1 believe, because of what happens to the Brotherhood of Evil, the character Phobia who sets up her greatest fear - she sees Kid Flash as her father and the soul self goes after Kid Flash and virtually kills him. Raven's not very happy about that.

The Art of Raven (George Perez)

"Raven is very angular, very high cheekbones, very straight-nosed, with an upper lip slightly larger than her lower lip, and, of course, an incredibly large forehead. "

"Raven has developed, recently, a dancer's body in which her breasts have gotten smaller. I gave Raven a body based on a young lady, Fran McGregor, who's built with a very attractive dancer's body. She goes to the same school as my wife, Carol."

Developing Raven (George Perez)

"I'd like so deal with she religious aspects of her. She was a high priestess, so she has a certain feeling toward religion. She probably even disagrees with a lot of it. I guess after doing Wonder Woman for so long, religion is something I've come to understand more. I was dealing with somebody who I had to infuse with a religious belief based on some things I did not know about. I've never been a Pagan."

"I'd like so deal more with Raven's mother. What was her mother's real name? I figure it's not Arella, as that was the name she took. Does Raven have any other relatives? Where is her mother now? One thing we'd like so deal with in the Titans-and Raven is a part of it as is Joey, although most of the others have shown is already-is sex. To her, sex is rape. She grew up with that, constantly reminded her entire life that she was a child of a rape. A thing like that can scar someone. I'd like so work a little more on investigating her rationale. It's not unusual. There have been lots of children who have had to go through that, but in this case we have Raven, who was not only the child of a rape, but was the daughter of a demon who tried to destroy everybody and corrupted her!"

"Now that she doesn't have that influence, maybe she'd like to have a relationship, but it will always stop when sex becomes involved. It's something she cannot handle. Realize that a woman like that, to give up her virginity, is would have to be someone she could trust so implicitly that that memory of a rape could be eradicated, or at least ignored. Bus having seen so many other people, including Titans, go through relationships that were more frivolous or hurt when the break-up occurred, it's not going so be easy for Raven to open up so someone that way."

"Things like that, and other investigations into Raven's personality, will be fascinating. Having done so many female characters from Wonder Woman and the Titans, that type of delving into the female psyche I find fascinating, particularly when there are certain things that no man can really identify with. Even if a man was the child of a rape, he would not have so worry about himself being caught pregnant, even if he were raped. Raven's is a totally different point of view, and I look forward to delving into that."

"If more men would try to understand that, that would be the only way to truly understand why a woman would take such pride in the things that make her unique. It would explain what happens when we as a male species corrupt that, violate that. It's like someone coming in and cutting off our penises. We don't know what we've lost until we've lost it. Virginity is something that a woman either treasures or abandons as quickly as she wants to, but it should always be her choice to do so. When a man takes away that choice I can imagine that it is an incredible violation of one of the things that makes women feel unique."

Raven Mini-Series

NEWSARAMA: Now you are working on a Raven mini-series, what it the story about?

Marv Wolfman: Emotionally, it's about a young girl who has found herself reborn in a new body and is trying to figure out her place in life. Story wise it picks up on the bit in the recent Titans Annual that I came up with that shows Raven getting an unexplained influx of emotions and what they do to her. It also asks where they come from and how it will affect her and everyone else in San Francisco. It deals with her new life in school and establishes the new parameters for her character. And it takes an old DC villain and completely changes him.

NRAMA: Is Raven still one of your favorite characters?

MW: She always has been. Still is.

NRAMA: What is it about Raven that strikes a chord with you?

MW: More than any of the other Titans, her rich and detailed origin allows me to get into a very complex character. There are lots of levels to her that make her fascinating to explore. I wish, I could replicate that with new characters, but some characters seem to be created just right and there's no knowing why, or duplicating it. I see endless possibilities with Raven that don't always exist in other characters, even ones I've created. Her stories flow from her origins and character rather than just having her fight meaningless bad guys for no real reason.

NRAMA: Does this story fill in the one year later gap for Raven?

MW: I think so, but it also establishes her new status quo.

NRAMA: Is this the same Raven from the current Teen Titans series or has she been changed by the continuity wave?

MW: She is the same Raven from the current series.

NRAMA: Is this an attempt to see if there is enough interest in Raven for an ongoing series?

MW: I don't think so, but who knows? I think some characters are perfect team members, but you can always do a series of mini-series with them. We'll see if there's any interest in that once the first series comes out.

NRAMA: Did you pitch this idea to DC or did they ask you to do a Raven mini-series?

MW: They asked me to come up with a Raven mini and I pitched the story that slowly morphed into the one you'll read here.

NRAMA: How many issues is the mini-series?

MW: Five.

- Added this image to "Absent During 'Crisis on Infinite Earths'":

Image:RaveninCOIE.jpg

TalonTheater, 5:39 PM EST, 27 October 2006

I think we're now getting the problem of too many images. Also, for the title image, I'd think it'd be best to go for 'current' rather than 'iconic'. --InShaneee 17:21, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with InShanee; the OYL title image was more appropriate. But I would keep all the other images you uploaded. --Neigel von Teighen 19:49, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I personally think the article should use a higher ratio of pictures-text, as it's a picture-based medium. I also think that the main picture should be iconic as opposed to modern (especially as she's only been on one page in the new outfit), as when people come to this article for reference, the Raven they'll be most familiar with is likely the most oft-used Raven; that of Perez.

Of course, if more people come saying it's better to be current than iconic, then of course I'll go along with changing it. It's everybody's article. TalonTheater 18:18, 9 October 2006 (EST)

Note that I say both of those things as a comparison to other comic character articles. --InShaneee 23:32, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Alright then, if you want to change the picture, go for it. I'm probably a bit biased in this because I personally don't like the new costume (the "raven crest" and nonsense gem belt are just plain annoying). Just know that I plan on adding much more text to the article, so the picture-text ratio will balance out eventually. TalonTheater 7:25, 11 October 2006

I think we should cut either "Raven, as she looked pre-Infinite Crisis" or "Raven Rising". Pictures should add content to the article, and I'm not seeing enough difference in the two designs to warrant having both. We should do a straw vote on which to keep though. Excellent call on the scan with her explaining her powers btw Talon, I'd been looking for that earlier but couldn't find it.D1Puck1T 07:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I had to edit the pic as well, though, to include all the dialogue bubbles. It was in TNTT #6 (I think). - User:TalonTheater

Regarding the interviews, while I suppose there might be some reason to include the others, the one about the upcoming mini doesn't seem to have enough content to warrant being printed in its entirity. I suggest a summary of the major points, and a link to the original instead.D1Puck1T 07:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

- Added this to "Infinite Crisis" and One Year Later:

In #39, we see that she is in possession of the diskette containing Jericho's soul; at the end of the issue, Jericho's soul has been cleansed by Raven's incantation and has a new body.

- Replaced the profile picture picture:

with this one:

Ok, why did somebody change the profile picture? The one I posted is a much better one; it shows the new costume, but in better context. Heck, it's even metaphorical (Raven running).

I didn't do it, but I agree with it; the older one is clearer and gives a better view of things. --InShaneee 00:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Stop lying here's proof [[4]]. Brian Boru is awesome 13:34, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Again, I think we should cut either "Raven, as she looked pre-Infinite Crisis" or "Raven Rising". Pictures should add content to the article, and I'm not seeing enough difference in how Raven is drawn in those 2 images to warrant having both. Is there an image that can add content that we can use instead? Something Trigon-related perhaps?D1Puck1T 02:35, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Writer interviews?

Are the writer's interviews really neccesary for this article, and the very long section on animated Raven? Also, does her Powers section need info on animated Raven? I feel that this is a comics article (hence the title Raven (comics)), and should not have so much info on her cartoon counterpart. NeoCoronis 00:27, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you, but I don't think the people who actually like the cartoon will. There should be a separate article for the cartoon version; the only resemblances between the two are the name and cloak. Personality and powers are different. TalonTheater

Name, cloak... origin, team membership, etc. etc. etc. Regardless, as I said before, at the minimum the interview on the upcoming mini should be cut and replaced with a brief summary of the interview and a link to it. You could make an argument for the other interviews, but there's nothing in that interview about the mini that couldn't be summarized for space concerns.D1Puck1T 02:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Returned to the team?

".. Jericho's soul is cleansed by Raven's incantation and has a new body. She returns to the team during TTT #40."

I don't recall her officially returning to the team in #40. Can someone correct this?