Talk:Races of The Legend of Zelda series

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Contents

[edit] Gerudo?

When in Wind Waker did they outright say that the Gerudo are extinct? Their desert certainly doesn't exist any more, and they don't show up in the game, but to say that the Gerudo are extinct is just speculation, and as such, should not be stated as a fact in this article. Demota 17:16, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

You're right, it is speculation, that's why it says "apparently"; and I'm pretty sure the game mentions the dark fate that befell the Gerudo, either in the beginning, or in flashback by Ganon or the king, but don't take my memory as 100% accurate. -- VederJuda 17:44, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Maybe. I recently completed Wind Waker, and don't recall any mention of the fate of the Gerudo at all, though. Ganondorf did mention that life in the desert was harsh, but that was really about it. - Demota 19:19, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
The Gerudo are probably a rare race, judging that there are only a few locations where they're seen. Ganondorf said that living in the Gerudo Valley was nearly impossible. Some-one may have missunderstood it and stated they were extinct. croc-koopa 20:10, 26 February 2006
Well, the pirates on Majora's Mask look the same as the Gerudos, and in Majora's Mask, there was no desert, so possibly they took in a new way of living? So if that's the case, they could possibly have stayed as the pirates and were already used to sea life in Wind Waker, just they never made any appearances? --63.160.254.215 14:09, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
How can they possibly be involved in TWW? They're from an alternate dimension! Setokaiba✌≝ 18:12, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Hasn't Miyamoto said that every Zelda game takes place 100 years after the last one? That means that they are not at all form a different dimension (and the enitre POINT of the wind waker is the way it's a sequel to OOT, taking place in the same world and all.) Zeck 14:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Zeck - Miyamoto has said no such thing... that's inflating something he at best said about two particular games to apply to all of them. Anyway, there is no way the pirates of Majora's Mask are involved in Wind Waker *because* that is in an "alternate" world OoT Link ends up in... not that Wind Waker is in an alternate world to the one of OoT. 72.192.237.134 16:04, 7 September 2006 (UTC)Ismail

The Pirates in Majora's Mask could be real. I thought the alternate dimension was speculative. Is it written somewhere that it is, in fact, an alternate dimension? Megadecimal 2 November 2006

So you think the pirates are real, but the world they live in and that they're USED to living in is speculative? Romani, Anju, Kafei, Darmani, the Indigo-Gos... these are (within the fictional work) real people living in a real world... it wasn't just created out of a whim when Link stepped into it... otherwise all the people wouldn't be real either or would've been wondering where their own world had gone and how they'd ended up there. 72.192.237.134 02:06, 4 November 2006 (UTC) Ismail

[edit] Subrosians

In what game(s) did they appear? I had never heard of them until now. -Unknown

Oracle of Seasons Setokaiba✌≝ 12:20, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
They appeared in one of the oracle games, you probably haven't played it user:selmaelbeyati


BTW Subrosia seems a corruption of sub rosa, Latin for “under the rose”, a phrase connotating secrecy. This may be symbolic of the Subrosians secret nature. Zidel333 04:02, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zora Evolution

Is it necessary to have such a long persuasive explanation about the evolution of the Zoras into the Rito? Although I personally support the theory, I don't think it deserves more than a passing mention in an encyclopedia article such as this. Would anyone object if I cleaned it up? -Luigi2 | Talk 03:50, Jun 27, 2005 (UTC)

All the information is on its own page, the Zora page. You could just delete the evolution stuff, it's all there. -- A Link to the Past 22:50, July 9, 2005 (UTC)
I do agree with it. On a different topic what does anyone think about spinning the legend of Zelda series into it's own novel franchise such as Forgotten Realms? The books could take place in the different Realms of Zelda and could spark a new franchise!
Personally, I see no reason that this theory should receive more than a passing mention (if any) in the wikipedia. Granted, I'm not part of the online community that has probably discussed this ad nauseum in the past, but I'm a long time fan and I see this is as nothing more than a crazy fan theory with little or nothing to back it up. The fact that there are Zoras in several games that come after WW in the chronology torpedoes this theory, IMHO. Robotpoop

All of the evolution stuff is theory. It may sound good, but it is nothing more than that. Therefore, it should not presented as rock solid fact when there is no actual proof that the Wind Waker is taking place hundreds of years after OOT. I mean, I personally beleive it is the same Link, Zelda, ect. from the previous games set up in a different type of world. If you look at the Zelda series, most games are not in sequence with the others. A few are, such as OOT and MM, but most aren't. If they were, why would Link have to meet Zelda every time? Does he forget who she is? No, because they haven't met yet! Does he lose the Master Sword at the end of each game and have to go find it at the start of the next? No, because he is discovering it for the first time in each game. Most games set Link up in a slightly altered version of Hyrule and a brand new adventure takes place that has no connections to the previous ones. And, in rference to the idea of WW coming so far after OOT, are you going to tell me that there are multiple Hero's of Time? That, coincidently, after Link is done wielding the Master's Sword, that hundreds of years later the next person to weild it is also name Link? And he has to fight a man named Ganondorf and save the princess, who's name is Zelda, just like the previous Link? These ideas are ludacrious. Does Twighltight Princess occur two thousand years after WW when the water evaporates? Of course not! But, arguments aside, I still don't think we should say "This is what happened" when we don't really know.

How about one world, multiple incarnations. It is, after all, a legend, so it does not necessarily have to follow that logically. I presume that you are also ignoring what Aonuma-san and Miyamoto-san have said about "WW is 100s of years after OoT", and "TP is decades after OoT". Plus, there's all the in-game facts, like the stained-glass windows with the 6 sages, and the mentions of the Hero of Time. (There is only one Hero of Time, the Link in OoT.) The reason that most people think that Hyrule is the same Hyrule for most of the series is that the geography of the land is similar in most of the games. Setokaiba✌≝ 11:04, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

It is the same Link and the same world, but a different story. WW is not connected to OOT in any way. End of story. As for the reincarnation theory, that is possible, however unproven. The game never made any references to reincarnation, so for one thing you don't even know that it happens in the games. (Which, by the way, dosen't happen in real life either.) Also, even if they did get reincarnated, it wouldn't be into themselves. The theroy dosen't work that way. Link into Link. I don't think so. Link is the same person in every game, but the world is almost like it resets and he has a nw adventure. The reason they do this is to sell games. If they weren all connected, fans would only want to see Link beat Ganon only to have him return a certain amount of times. It would get old. But if they had never fought before, then you aren't as sure of what will happen and it keeps the series alive and interesting.

So you are completely ignoring what the creators of the game that you enjoy enough to write these paragraphs about say regarding their chronology? But, whatever, its a free world. However, Wikipedia is about facts based on cited references, and since they have said these things, they are recorded in the article. Removing them based solely on your own desire to ignore them is obviously your opinion, which does not belong in a Wikipedia article, unless it is a common consensus and therefore notable.
And please sign your comments, and indent them with ":" if necessary. Setokaiba✌≝ 19:37, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

They never once say for sure that what the order is. They make hints as to what the possibilities are, but they do not state tham as facts. Even with their hints, the order is not known. And I will not sign my articles.


Ocarina of Time is specifically based on the legend that LttP was based on (the one with the sages) Majora's Mask IS IT'S SEQUEL The two Oracle games are at least implied to happen after Link to the Past: Ganon has actually been killed (in all the earlier others, he is only sealed), Link knows where the Triforce is, and he is the Hero of the Triforce. Also, the boat he set sail on strongly implies it is the boat from Link's awakening, ESPECIALLY considering many of the monsters and bosses are from the Oracle and LttP games (Facade, Smasher, Angler Fish, and the Jabu-JAbu/CAtfish MAw dungeons as case in point), and Link's Awakening is specifically said to be some time after Link to the Past The Adventure of Link is a direct sequel to the Legend of Zelda The Wind Waker is put to follow Ocarina of Time, references Link going to Termina, and is set after Ganon escaped his seal For example, in Ocarina of Time, Ganon FINDS the triforce, in most of the others, he already has it Phantom Hourglass is a direct sequel to WW

The list is long of concrete details that show that the Zelda series have a semi-definite ordered timeline, and that there are certainly more than one Link/Zelda Heck, the first two games had two zeldas and one Link.

The simplest of timelines is something like this:
Minish Cap: origin of monsters (Bound Chest), Triforce not even known, Four Sword/Master Sword/Picori Blade not cursed Ocarina of Time>Majora's Mask: finding of Triforce, origin of Dark World, Ganon
--some centuries, according to text FROM WIND WAKER--
Wind Waker>Phantom Hourglass: Ganon's escape attempt foiled, manifestation of SOME OF HIS POWER (notice he says that most of it is sealed in the Dark World) stopped
--more centuries--
Presumably Four Swords>Four Swords Adventures, for several reasons:
1: Vaati is concretely destroyed
2: Hyrule is drying up, but still surrounded by water
3: Ganon is sealed in the cursed Four Sword, and its shattered pieces are found in the Pyramid in LttP
--more time--
Link to the Past>Oracle of Ages>Oracle of Seasons>Link's Awakening
Link kills Ganon IN THE DARK WORLD, where his true body was sealed in Ocarina of Time, Agahnim, an avatar of Ganon much like Ganondorf from Wind Waker, is killed, and the Triforce is reclaimed Link checks on it, is sent to Labrynna and Holodrum to halt Twinrova from resurrecting the dead Ganon, succeeds, and leaves for home, crashing on Koholint.
Important that Link did "train in foreign lands", and has many of the same items (which enforces the dream bit) in Oracles, as it said in L's A.
Also, why Ages before Seasons: Bipin's ancestor is in Labrynna, so it would not make sense for him to move TO Labrynna, as he must have been born there, and in a linked game of S>A, Impa does not recognize Link, while in A>S, she does. Also, in S>A, somehow the Subrosians have timetravelled for no reason to Labrynna, even while the Oracle is possessed---makes no sense
Finally, after some more time, Legend of Zelda>Adventure of Link
Twilight Princess goes in there somewhere too
I admit that some of this (Oracle between Link's Awakening and Link to the Past, along with Four Swords series) is conjecture, but the rest is solidly stated in the games, and even the producer said there was a definite timeline, though he produced one that had many inconsistencies.

[edit] Messy

The article restates thinsg already said in the article multiple times, and often refers to 'the video game ocarine of time' even though we know that's what we're reading about. this was obviously merged from multiple articles, and it's still incredibly redundant and messy. i'm not an authority on these matters, though. i might change some stuff, but id like to know if there's anyone out ehre who feels the same way? Lockeownzj00 19:33, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes it is rather a mess, and yes it has been merged from a heap of pages (see Special:Whatlinkshere/The Legend of Zelda series races for the list). Between this and the characters and enemies pages, I haven't had time to do much beyond the merge itself. Feel free to clean it up as much or as little as you can, I really don't have the time to help with that right now. GarrettTalk 23:38, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Starting some cleanup

So, I've started some clean-up on this article. Still some way to go, but I thought I'd ask about some particularly confusing bits in the Talk in the hope that someone can explain them.

  • Dekus: "They can shoot nuts out of their mouths, similarly to how octoroks shoot rocks. Unfortunately, this also means they can't swim without drowning."

...what? How do these two facts go together?

  • Gerudo: ...in the manga, they appear most as arab harem-style figures, which is more truthful than to call them bird-like."

But then, in the Goron section: "...but the manga are considered non-canonical." So, personally, I think this should go, or have a similar note.

  • Gorons: Section: "Gorons and Discworld trolls: Gorons and the trolls of Discworld bear a bit of resemblance. They both eat rocks, and Gorons appear to grow rocks (perhaps better termed boulders in old-age) in their backs so when they die they leave rocky corpse. With as big as some Gorons get mountains could be formed from their corpses much as old trolls become mountains."

...um... so what does this have to do with anything? This seems to be nothing but speculation from someone who is apparently both a fan of Zelda and Discworld; I think this section should go. That's all for the moment. What do my fellow Wikipedians think? --Sparky Lurkdragon 00:12, 17 November 2005 (UTC) Yeah wth does Discworld have to do with Zelda? --Saimdusan

[edit] Deku Flower to Majora's Mask relocation

I believe that the deku flower should be relocated to Majora's Mask Article and Oracle of Seasons and Ages articles -Unknown

Deku Flowers have more to do with the Deku race than those games themselves... --Tryforceful 21:15, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image captions

Is there some reason why Ganondorf's image is the only one with a caption, it looks out of place. I say we either delete it or add captions to the other images.VederJuda 02:07, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Ganondorf is special (he is male), that's why he gets the caption.selmaelbeyati
Well, he's special in the context of his race, but not when just representing his race... Tyciol 03:40, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gerudo lifespan?

There is no evidence whatsoever that Gerudo (short of Ganondorf, Koume, and Kotake, all of whom dabble in dark magic) have extended lifespans or that Gerudo men kill or are responsible for the deaths of future Gerudo men, so I removed these little tidbits of speculation. The point is made entirely moot anyway, since a Gossip Stone does say that Gerudo look for Hylian boyfriends... unfortunately, I'm in no particularly good position to take a screenshot right this moment (I don't even remember which Gossip Stone it is) so I used my "source" as a text dump on GameFAQs. As noted in my invisible comment, a Control-F search for the word "boyfriend" will instantly bring you to the passage in question. --HeroicJay 08:34, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
PS. As an added note, both of GameFAQs' Gossip Stone FAQs say that the relevant stone is just outside of the Temple of Time. --HeroicJay 08:39, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I added the speculation. This was prior to introduction of the idea of their taking boyfriends of other races (and presumably, producing offspring with them). The problem here, is that in Ocarina of Time, it is difficult to tell whether or not the different peoples can breed. I am of the default stance that they are separate races unable to breed with one another. Certain hentai manga tend to disagree with me to the point of having Ruto and Link having a kid... Either way, is there any evidence in the game that Gerudo and Hylians are of the same species and produce offspring? I think that is actually speculation. I can see the Gerudo women taking boyfriends of other races due to boredom (not enough males to go around), but that doesn't mean they can have babies with them. Tyciol 05:53, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
It seems kinda weasely to me to come up with a long explanation of how the Gerudo can continue to exist without crossbreeding with Hylians when there's a much simpler (and at least somewhat supported by the game) explanation of how they continue to exist with them. Occam's Razor, you know. I mean, do you assume that the race dies out after Ganondorf is imprisoned in the Golden Land at the end of the game? (Well, I suppose there's nothing saying that they don't, but my point is that any king that dies before their hundred years is up would put an end to the Gerudo race if he was their only method of reproduction.) --HeroicJay 07:31, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I think that they may be subspecies, but for some reason have the Gerudo gene as dominant. --Saimdusan

I didn't know where or how to properly bring up this information, but in "Twilight Princess," I recall Ganondorf bearing pointed ears similar to Hylians and not the rounded ones assumed to be typical of Gerudo. Is this information important for this page?

[edit] Simple Deletion

I deleted the following sentence in the Rito section. "However, they are in fact far off decendants of the Zora, much like the Koroks are to the Kokiri."

Since the same information is already discussed in the spoiler section, this sentence was extraneous. Also, since this information is also in the spoiler section and is not uncovered until the player is well into WW, I didn't feel that it belonged alongside the general information. Unknown - 22:40, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Renamed to "Deku"

I have renamed the "Deku Scrubs" section to "Deku", as it is a more accomodating name for the race of Deku Scrubs. One would say the "Zora race" or "Goron race", but "Deku Scrub race" does not fit as well. Also, titles from Majora's Mask like "Deku Palace" suggest that Deku Scrubs are only a select species in the broader Deku race.

--Tryforceful 15:18, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More Races

Also to be included should be the Dead Tribe (gibdos, poes, stalfos) and Dark tribes (moblins, darknuts, etc,), as they are shown to be sentient and at least have speech. In WW, Moblins were shown to interact with hylians, and in MM, the Dead tribe was able to be talked with peacefully. Humans (non-Hylians, round ears, that kind of thing), and the Animal Race (the talking monkeys, rabbits, bears, etc) are also in the game. One more race that should be included is the Fishmen. Though they all look and sound the same in Wind Waker, the one you meet solidly says that he will tell his family/clan to help you, and that means that there are 49 of them: far more than there are even Rito, Koroks, or Hylians in the game. 74.140.118.84 21:09, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

We must also include the Twili, a race introduced in The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. I don't have enough information to write about them, so if you have played the game, please incorporate this race to this article. Thanks. 15:06, 23 November 2006

I don't think Dark tribes and Dead tribes are really races like this page talks about, they are monsters like it is said in The Minish Cap, they are more like dangerous beasts and there are too many races of monsters. I don't think that Ordonian is a race, they are normal humans (that is a race to be talked about) like other characters in the series (in The Wind Waker and A Link to the Past for examples). It's true that Talking animals and Mermen (not Fishmen like it is said on Zelda website) have to be included. Other races : Fairy, Deity (like Valoo, Zephos or even the Light Spirits of Twilight Princess), Garo Ninja, Ikana Army, Piratian (the skeleton pirates of Oracle of Seasons, one Subrosian call them Piratians) and the new Oocca from Twilight Princess. (DjinnFighter, 18:26, 12 December 2006)

[edit] Hyrule map

I have an odd question that would relate to whether the races moved to a new Hyrule or what:

The Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker maps mesh nicely, and the Minish Cap map slightly fits. The odd thing is that if you tilt the Link to the Past map on its corner, it fits VERY well with the Wind Waker map. For example, the cave where you find the Ice Rod lays over Ice Ring Isle, and the LttP Lost Woods have overgrown Hyrule Castle, while Kakariko Village from OoT has been replaced by Eastern Temple and K Village from LttP has replaced Hyrule Market Town. Death Mountain is Death Mountain, Great Desert is Gerudo Valley, etc. Has anyone else noticed this?74.140.118.84 21:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Toarunians"

Shouldn't we list the people of Toaru as a race. I mean, I know Toaru is not the established name of where they live, only tentative, or if if it's even right to call them "Toarunians" for the Gorons aren't called "Death Mountain-ians", but by all means, they are a race. For one, they have circular ears unlike the elf-like ears of must of the other LOZ races, including the Hylians, Sheikah and Rito. They live in seclusion far way from Hyrule, though thats not to say that they don't know of any place or people outside of where they live, seeing as how they attend the annual Hyrule Summit. They are governed by a leader, the mayor. They all eat crops from the same fields, drink the milk from the same cattle like a family even though they are probably not in the same family, though they have the same ancestors. And, like I mentioned before, they live on farming--growing crops and raising livestock--something no other LOZ race has been seen to do. Plus, they have different colored skin (remember the tan-skinned man from the video), a first of any Zelda race.

I suggest that this is not added to the article yet; at least, not until Twilight Princess is released. Someone is unlikely to be looking for them, yet, and they may just be ordinary humans, such as those it the Great Sea in The Wind Waker. Setokaiba✌≝ 20:19, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spoiler Warning?

Shouldn't this article contain a spoiler warning? I mean, someone who is only half-way through playing Ocarina of Time would not know that Link is a Hylian (and not, as would have been previously assumed, a Kokiri).

[edit] Words used in article...

I knowticed a few of the sectios use the words "you", and sound like something out of a humorous game review, or something like that. Abby724 00:29, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hyrule Adventure?

The last two races on this page are supposedly from an online game called "the Hyrule Adventure", yet I cannot find any information on this. Can anyone provide any information? 68.198.220.163 00:28, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Link "Ordonian"?

I'm playing through Twilight Princess right now on my Wii, and it seems to me that Ordonian is to Hylian as Floridian is to American. I haven't run into anything in the game yet that makes it appear that Link (and maybe the other inhabitants of Ordon Village) are a different race. This comment is in references to Races_of_The_Legend_of_Zelda_series#Hylians --24.129.18.76 01:38, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


I agree entirely. This is like saying the people of the Kakariko Village, from the Eldin Province, are their own race. Furthermore, so far, the game makes no reference to "Hylians," only to "humans." To me, this could explain the lack of emphasis on pointy ears. Kokiriboy99 23:55, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zora Gills and Gender

This article states Zoras "have no visible gills", though in The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess it appears the Zora have gills along the sides of their ribcages. This article also states that the Zora appear to be predominantly male, though in Twilight Princess they both appear and sound female (if you try speaking to them after freeing them from the ice, their gasping sounds feminine), all except for the prince. BeefJeaunt 23:48, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clean up

A MAJOR clean-up is most definately in order. Even the first two paragraphs are cursed with repetition and the like. I'd started a bit of a clean-up, but it really needs to be a group effort in order to be effective. --Zooba 09:11, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Twili did not descend from the Gerudo...

I don't know who wrote that or how they came up with it, but it is highly unlikely and chronologically impossible for the Twili to be the descendants of the Gerudo, I think whoever wrote that either has a considerable lack of experience with the Zelda universe or read into things too much. Twilight Princess is set less than a century after Ocarina of Time, so there is no way that an ancient race like the Twili could have descended from the Gerudo, who albeit not on screen, should still exist. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.119.64.233 (talk) 08:29, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Races in the manga

I believe that the races that were shown only in the various manga should be kept in that article. This article should be set in the proper canon, and unless there is a solid reason these races should stay here, I will be removing them from this article. PlatformerMastah 01:10, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

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