Talk:R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company
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[edit] Requested move
R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company → R. J. Reynolds Tobacco Company – Naming conventions -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 15:02, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Survey
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
- Oppose - The company name has the "R." and the "J." next to each other or "RJ" posted. TinMan 19:33, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
- Support -- I realise the discussion has closed, but since when do naming conventions take a back seat to arbitrary style decisions made by corporate PR departments? C.f. Citgo (officially "CITGO") and Macy's, in addition to this link.--chris.lawson 01:03, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Discussion
The company's official name (former official name... now Reynolds American) is either R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company" or "RJ Reynolds Tobacco Company". Seperating the R from the J in this case is incorrect. It is similar to the United States abbreviation of U.S. found on U.S. Route 52. Sources: [1] [2] [3] 4 (RJR Official site) --TinMan 19:38, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
- See my comment above. See also DirecTV, Fox News, and WP:MOS-TM. In short, it doesn't matter how RJR wants to punctuate their company name. They're "R. J. Reynolds" to the SEC [4], and they should be "R. J. Reynolds" to Wikipedia.--chris.lawson 01:12, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
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- Are you saying that RJ Reynolds doesn't even have the right to name itself? --TinMan 03:04, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
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- I'm saying they don't have the right to dictate rules of style to Wikipedia, and I'm quoting multiple examples where Wikipedia's largely sensible house style has been used in place of utterly ridiculous PR garbage. The PR folks at RJR can put periods and spaces wherever they wish. As "R. J." is an initialed form of an individual's name, it should follow house style, regardless of what the PR department at the company wants you to think.--chris.lawson 03:34, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
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- The SEC shouldn't have authority to dictate rules of style to Wikipedia either. Do I need to bring up common names? I have tons and tons of sources that use "R.J.", including the New York Stock Exchange and the FTC. [5] [6] Also look how the school that was named after R.J. Reynolds is spelled: [7]. Putting the R. and the J. next to each other is the most common usage, is the official usage, and is the corporate usage. I'm from RJR's headquarters city and many of my relatives worked there. Nobody splits the R. and J. if they know what they are talking about. I believe all this trumps the "individual's name" argument. Plus, we're talking about the company here, not the person. --TinMan 04:20, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
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- According to the United States federal government, under which laws RJR is incorporated and conducts business, there's a space in its name. That makes it the official name, regardless of what the company claims. Please don't let your personal feelings for or dealings with the company colour your judgement. Do you believe all the other examples I've cited here on Wikipedia should be changed to reflect corporate policy?--chris.lawson 04:28, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
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- By the way, Google says by far the most common version, if you want strictly the most common name, is "RJ Reynolds", with no periods at all. So by convention, we ought to be using that.--chris.lawson 04:32, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
- Agreed, we should use RJ Reynolds, but you didn't suggest that. There's just no space is all I'm saying. --TinMan 05:12, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
- By the way, Google says by far the most common version, if you want strictly the most common name, is "RJ Reynolds", with no periods at all. So by convention, we ought to be using that.--chris.lawson 04:32, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
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- I didn't suggest it because I think it's more PR department garbage, but it does have 1.3 million Google hits behind it. (To be fair, Google does not seem to search for the periods properly, with or without a space, because none of the first 100 or so hits have it spelled with periods at all in their titles, and the only one that spells it with periods in the text is Wikipedia.) Of course, the company itself seems to think it's space-exempt: the official site spells it "RJReynolds". Surely you see the ridiculousness of that?--chris.lawson 05:35, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
- The RJReynolds format is just so they can highlight the "RJR" nickname, and that may be for your PR reasons. If you look at the more official text on the website, I'm sure you'll find "R.J. Reynolds" or "RJ Reynolds" more often. Any of these are fine with me except "R. J. Reynolds" or "R J Reynolds". There is just no space in between the R and the J. It's like having the nickname "AJ" or "CJ". I don't really understand your PR reasons very well. If the company name has no spaces between the R. and J. at the school, at the FTC, on the stock exchange, on the news, and even on the factory smokestacks, then it can't be purely PR; it is the common name. --TinMan 12:53, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
- I didn't suggest it because I think it's more PR department garbage, but it does have 1.3 million Google hits behind it. (To be fair, Google does not seem to search for the periods properly, with or without a space, because none of the first 100 or so hits have it spelled with periods at all in their titles, and the only one that spells it with periods in the text is Wikipedia.) Of course, the company itself seems to think it's space-exempt: the official site spells it "RJReynolds". Surely you see the ridiculousness of that?--chris.lawson 05:35, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
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