Talk:Qigong

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is part of WikiProject China, a project to improve all China-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other China-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.

???

This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.

[edit] Controversial content

Someone who (a) knows and (b) cares about Chinese culture, literature, religion, and history should work this over. This is apologetic literature for the practice of a religion which the article admits dates only (in its "traditional" form) to the 1970s (when it "reemerged"). MichaelTinkler

[edit] A response

There is less likely to be a scholarly history of qigong than there is of mahjong. Many accounts simply say it is "mysterious." Two articles published at the Web site of Healing People Network of 907 E. Verdugo Rd., Burbank, CA, claim to provide historical background: Yang Jwing-Ming, "A Brief History of Qigong," and Guo Yuqiu, "Introduction to Medical Qigong." Yang's article is adapted without attribution by the Web site (1) of the Qigong Institute of 561 Berkeley Ave., Menlo Park, CA, and by several other Web sites. (2) (3) None of these articles and Web sites cite any publications or other references for any of their claims.

Since qigong has become a popular form of personal development and recreation, one can find out somewhat more about its recent characteristics. "What is the recent history of Qigong in China?" by Meng Qing of the Université de Montréal appears on a Web site maintained by Wuji Productions of Kauai, Hawaii. Meng published a master's thesis in 2000 on "Healing Beliefs and Practice in the 'Way of Celestial Masters' during the Eastern Han Dynasty" and has been working under Prof. David Ownby on a Ph.D. thesis in History on the topic: "The Post-Mao Qigong Boom in the People's Republic of China: the Resurgence of Traditional Popular Culture."

Craig Bolon 17:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

The rationale for redirecting this to "Chinese Qigong" escapes me. There's nothing here to disambiguate, and the practice is always commonly referred to with only the single word. Eclecticology

based on Chinese religion strikes me as odd, since that includes several different religions that have very little in common. Can you be more specific? Mkweise

I don't have the historical knowledge myself, but this article seems to need at least a few references to the many 'written records' of qigong thousands of years ago. The history given here is biased at best. The 'three periods' are a strange idea - why does the final period begin in the '70s? Is this when Dr. Yan Xin (a medical doctor, so the quotes should not be there) started teaching? There are books published about qigong by the '50s.

'Modernized traditional' seems to be an oxymoron to me. Besides, there are no types of qigong listed here besides Yan Xin Qigong, and no references to older names for qigong.

Some comparisons with Indian and Tibetan medical practices (yoga, for example) would also be useful, perhaps. Edededed 06:41, 25 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I advise those with familiarity of this subject to go to the page history and review RK's edits. He made some major changes. Sweeping it under the carpet is useless. --Jia ng 22:02, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Namely: [1], [2]. --Jiang

[edit] Controversial Content and Merging the Criticism of Qi gong Article with the Present Article

Thanks, I hadn't seen those.

BTW, kudos to you and Roadrunner, the page is much easier to read.

Fire Star 23:25, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Can someone explain relevance to qigong? It's far from clear to me that qigong invokes culturally universal patterns of magical thinking. The closest culturally independent pattern that qigong invokes is vitalism, but even here the concept of a universal life force doesn't seem to be culturally independent (i.e. I can't think of any analogues in Middle Eastern, Indian, or European thought.) Roadrunner 14:51, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Dr. Phillips Stevens writes "Many of today's complementary or alternative systems of healing involve magical beliefs, manifesting ways of thinking based in principles of cosmology and causality that are timeless and absolutely universal. So similar are some of these principles among all human populations that some cognitive scientists have suggested that they are innate to the human species, and this suggestion is being strengthened by current scientific research....Some of the principles of magical beliefs described above are evident in currently popular belief systems. A clear example is homeopathy...The fundamental principle of its founder, Samuel Hahnemann (1755-1843), similia similibus curentur ("let likes cure likes"), is an explicit expression of a magical principle."

_______________________________________________________________________________

209.188.84.111 has put in a few edits promoting "Yan Xin Qigong," presumably a style he or she approves of. It is a relatively popular style, so I can see leaving references to it in, but this was borderline advertising. I put a greeting on 209.188.84.111's talk page with links to manuals of style, how to edit a page, etc. and reverted a few of the clumsier changes.

Fire Star 21:30, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Why would most traditional Chinese medicine practitioners and the Chinese government believe that qigong is only a 'set of breathing and movement exercises?' If the Chinese government has accepted qigong as a medical practice covered by their National Health Plan, doesn't this seem wrong?

It also seems strange that there might be Confucian or Neo-Confucian styles of qigong.

I will make changes if noone responds for a while about these things.

Also, will anyone add a list of some of these hundreds, or thousands of schools of qigong? This article only mentions Yan Xin and Falungong.

Edededed 00:40, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

As i've leant it, "gong" means "ability", not "work". So I would traslate "qigong" as "qi ability".

When chinese say "ones qigong is good", they mean the level of ability is high, not that the practitioner is working a lot.

--Vcozma 20:37, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Why is qigong a branch of TCM ?

Qigong is very complex, it is not only breathing, it's controlling the body, mind, getting in touch with your soul and (finally ?) enlightment. I'm sure it's not a complete list.

In which way does acupuncture, presopuncture or any other practice of TCM help somebody achieve this ?

--Vcozma 20:57, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

By helping you become a complete being... Reading on 'internal alchemy' could shed some light on the matter.
And concerning your headline: 'Why is qigong a branch of TCM ?'. Answer: clearly because TCM treats by dealing with qi.

--Lok hup 11:35, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Explanations first

I would prefer it if the explanation of the 2nd paragraph would be mentioned earlier.

For example first: Qigong (氣功 - pinyin: qì gōng, Wade-Giles: ch'i kung) Qi means breath or to breathe in Mandarin Chinese. Gong means work or technique. Qigong is then "breath work" or the art of managing the breath to achieve and maintain good health, and especially in the martial arts, to enhance the leverage and stamina of the body in coordination with the physical process of respiration.

and in the 2nd paragraph: Qigong is an increasingly popular aspect of Chinese medicine. Qigong is mostly taught for health maintenance purposes, but there are also some who teach it, especially in China, for therapeutic interventions. Various forms of traditional qigong are also widely taught in conjunction with Chinese martial arts.

[edit] Criticism of Qigong

"Both traditional Chinese and Western medicine practitioners have little argument with the notion that qigong can improve and in many cases maintain health by encouraging movement, increasing range of motion, relaxation, blood oxygen saturation and improving joint flexibility and resilience."

Probably the generality of this statement needs to be qualified. Does western medicine really generally support the idea of Qigong "improving and maintaining" health?

The question becomes one of "Relative to what medical state?". For example "breathing" in general could be said to "maintain and improve ones medical state" since by not breathing you will die. However positing the benefits of 'breathing' in such a manner would be considered by most to be humorous if not ingenuous.

So I submit that if you're going to talk about "improve and maintain x" then you need a relative reference.

In the elderly? ( some evidence to suggest this but higher impact exercise proves better http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15154293 ). To someone who exercises three times per week? Quite possibly not.

Perhaps we simply need to talk about it as a low-impact exercise. That way there's no confusion about it's health benefits.

Unfortunately, there are many kinds of qigong, and they vary greatly in their effectiveness. As well, the individual student's discipline and application of technique will vary greatly from person to person. Those practices associated with T'ai Chi Ch'uan have been pretty well documented, and there are some citations at that article which may interest you. Fire Star 22:25, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

THIS SECTION

Some proponents of qigong make the controversial claim that they can directly detect and manipulate this energy, but there are those who insist that they can only demonstrate this to fellow believers. Others, including many traditional Chinese practitioners, believe that qi can be viewed as a metaphor for biological processes, and the effectiveness of qigong can also be explained in terms more familiar to Western medicine such as stress management

This section (which I have outright deleted before) is full of loaded language (italics) and is not about criticism. It IS (unfounded) criticism. QI is energy, and QiGong is about learning to manipulate this energy. To suggest that Chi Kung practitioners view qi as a metaphor is inaccurate. Accupuncture/pressure IS a manipulation of this energy, and these can be considered sub-disciplines within Chi Kung (at least the variety I was involved in). I think that the cult-like aspect of some branches is covered well in the article, and western criticisms are well covered in the other paragraph in this section. So this paragraph is not useful information, but a biased view based on the western paradigm. So although I think this section could be expanded, I've taken out this paragraph again.

I have moved your statements to the correct place chronologically so that people may follow this discussion easier. Qigong and Qi are controversial subjects, many Westerners see them as superstitious. We don't say that their suspicions have any basis, we simply have to report them. We can't say that qigong is definitely a magical energy either. We can cite medical research that shows it helps for stress relief, as we do at the T'ai Chi Ch'uan article, if we have any studies to cite. Also, there are many different styles of qigong and many different practitioners of it. My school, for example, goes back centuries and uses qigong demonstrably as a martial art technique, yet I also believe that at its heart qigong is simply a metaphor for stress relief, if very advanced stress relief, so I am reverting your changes. I would be happy if you wanted to add that not all practitioners agree that it is a metaphor, though. My qualifications as a martial artist, qigong and acupressure practitioner are impeccable, and yet I can see a need to have differing viewpoints other than my own in the article. Wikipedia has a neutral point of view policy that we all have to adhere to. Fire Star 16:23, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

A better solution then. I've removed the loaded language. My problem is that as it was, it appeared that only a few quacks in the world of Qigong viewed qigong as 'energy training' or the like. Every Qigong link off this page (and every other Chi Kung source I've seen), describes Qigong as 'energy work' or some similar thing. When I talked with my Sifu about the lack of 'energy' in many western taichi teachings, he was very clear that without learning about energy flow (qi/chi) tai chi becomes not much different than any exercise such as jumping jacks. For the article to suggest that for many practitioners chi kung is simply stress relief, while some make the controversial claim that it is so much more, is not about point of view, it is an innaccurate portrayal. I honestly find it difficult to believe that you have spent a lifetime studying qigong without feeling the chi. Which school do you learn under? It would be interesting to learn a little about it. I certainly can make no claims of impeccable mastery however; at my 25 years I am not sure I would have time left in my life to achieve it! I am doing my best to work within the neutral point of view policy

"Neutrality does not compel us to introduce inaccuracy when something can be directly verified." - as I have said, that Qi/Chi and its cultivation is considered the most important tenant of (most?) Chi Kung can be verifed by visiting QiGong dedicated websites or reading QiGong instructional books. You could also ask many a Chi Kung Master.

"and they should seek to improve articles by removing any examples of cultural bias that they encounter" I may be wrong, but It appears to me that western bias has removed the Qi from Qigong. This is my concern. If my edits are not satisfactory, then as compromise we should remove all the some and many modifiers and other similar language that can be suggestive and misleading. At the very least, the stress reduction POV should be given a source, such as your particular school of Qigong. It should not be suggested that a majority of QiGong practitioners accept western critisism of thier art as valid. I apologize for deleting the paragraph; your discussion has made clear my error there. However, I think it is vital to include the Chi in a description of Chi Kung, whether westerners view the idea as superstitious or not. --unsigned comment from User:Lok hup

For most practitioners ch'i kung is indeed best characterised as stress relief. It is a basic tenet of traditional Chinese medicine that most disease is caused by stress, and relieving the physical effects of stress is the first step to regaining health. It is so basic you could call it TCM 101. To "feel the ch'i" as you put it takes many years and a very specific lifestyle, and not many are ready to go that far. Since you are a youngster with little experience yourself in these matters I can forgive your doubts, but FYI I am a sifu of the Wu Chien-ch'uan family lineage, and I have a lot of personal experience in fighting using T'ai Chi Ch'uan as well as healing my students and peers with ch'i that I have developed in the course of my training. One of my senior teachers was the late Wu Ta-hsin, the son of Wu Kung-tsao. They were both well known experts in traditional Chinese medicine as well as all aspects of soft style martial arts, including ch'i kung. I also, however, am a Wikipedia administrator and am well aware of Wikipedia's no original research policy, which any reports in articles of my personal experiences of ch'i which I made would fall under. So, we will be keeping the article neutral and free from seemingly fantastic claims. --Fire Star 05:19, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Just some input from an outsider. I feel this article is well handled. The facts are well laid out, and criticisms are fair. Wikipedia policy seems to work to a large extent. RomanX 04:33, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

- - Some criticisms regarding the criticisms of qi gong section. Citing the sanctions made by the PRC against Falun Gong are dangerous and ill-researched. First, the implication that the PRC is qualified to sanction or not sanction the veracity of a cultural element that it has a long history of repressing is ludicrous. Second, the section of text is almost a verbatim quote from an article drafted by a psychologist from Pennsylvania that has its own strong anti-qi gong bias. Third, this small bit of text has been making the rounds in quotes of extremist Christian literature in the U.S. Fourth, the "ban" by the PRC is a systematic process of imprisonment, torture, and execution of Falun practitioners. It is, in fact, the same process applied to many Taoists, Buddhists, and martial artists following the communist revolution. Fifth, the specific political activities that triggered the suppression are well documented and can be googled easily. What can't be googled is the knowledge that most revolutions in China were organized by martial artists or qi gong practitioners. The PRC fear that such a thing might occur again is driven by the Chinese cultural concept of "moral force"--the belief that the people will assemble behind the just to fight the unjust.

For the record, I have no connection to Falun24.121.32.141 07:17, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Qi Gong Explained

First examine what you must accept to believe that Qi Gong has medicinal powers. Users believe that if they stand in groups and perform slow motion martial arts katas in unison they gain the power to alter their reality. Some long-term users believe they possess superhuman or supernatural powers.

The psychiatric effects of Qi Gong are real but the explanation of what is happening is incorrect. Qi is a construction of the human mind and exists only as human thought. (Kundalini Yoga has an even more elaborate belief system to explain the effects of the Awakening of Kundalini. In Qi Gong this is called 'opening the third eye.' It's the same simple phenomenon.)

When the katas are performed users are creating the "special circumstances" which were discovered to cause mental breaks for knowledge workers in the 1960's. The cubicle solved the problem in business offices.

Yogis and Qi Gong Masters agree that the psychotic episodes happen when too many sessions are performed in a compact time frame. But those same experts claim that mysterious universal life forces are at work.

Short-term intense exposure produces a 'first psychotic episode.' But when exposure to Subliminal Distraction is low level but persistent, permanent psychotic altered mental states are created.

Example: Martial arts acolytes believe they can project qi from their fingertips and strike opponents knocking them down without touching them.

Eyes-open concentration to meditate copies or replaces the slight dissociation necessary to perform knowledge work in a business office. Subliminally detected movement from others nearby substitutes for office staff walking close enough beside a concentrating worker to cause an attempt to create a peripheral vision reflex.

The effect can be explained as Subliminal Accidental Operant Conditioning.

Visual Subliminal Distraction is not recognized in the United States. But it is stated as the reason Cubicle Level Protection is needed for at-risk knowledge workers in other countries, Australia.

Qi Gong users are told to think of achieving general good health rather than a specific cure while they perform the exercise. When their brain misunderstands the repeating subliminal stimulation as reinforcement for those thoughts they are conditioned to believe they received a benefit. They may well get a real benefit. The effect of this phenomenon is unknown in the field of psychology.

There is no specific medical benefit from katas with names like White Crane, or Jade Dragon. The benefit is created though operant conditioning acting against the user's beliefs and contemporaneous thought. The only difference is the number of threat movement detection incidents a kata will produce due the nature of the movements in peripheral vision.

Mental breaks caused by the phenomenon can be observed on Russian space missions, Soyuz 21/ Salut 5; the psychotic episodes caused by est; mental breaks on scientific expeditions (Belgian Polar Expedition 1898); and in many Culture Bound Syndromes (Jumping Frenchmen of Maine, Latah, Amok, iich’aa, Going Postal).

The physiology that allows exposure to the phenomenon can be demonstrated with a simple psychology experiment. http://visionandpsychosis.net/a_demonstration_you_can_do.htm

Links to the current state of the art are on these pages. The ‘conflict to physiology’ is not mentioned on linked pages. No one in psychology is aware of the engineering and design discovery from the 1960’s.

Designers and engineers who build 'Systems Furniture,' Cubicles are the only people who work with this problem. They do not connect their "nuisance design problem" with any other outcome or disorder.

http://visionandpsychosis.net/Astronauts_Insanity.htm http://visionandpsychosis.net/Culture_Bound_Syndromes.htm http://visionandpsychosis.net/QiGong_Psychotic_Reaction_Diversion.htm http://visionandpsychosis.net/EST_Werner_Erhard.htm

L K Tucker 68.19.34.74 03:37, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regulation in china

The article states:

"After years of debate, the Chinese government decided to officially manage qigong through government regulation in 1996 and has also listed qigong as part of their National Health Plan."

First, this needs a citation. Second, I have heard of this, but i couldn't turn up any information just browsing online. Specifically, I've encountered various traditions of Qigong that claim they're style or form was accepted by the government as some sort of nationally-endorsed qigong, implying that their style is one of the most commonly practiced in China (e.g. Soaring Crane Qi Gong). Obviously, this is a pretty grandiose claim for any martial arts school to make, but if the practice is being nationally regulated that would imp[ly that there is some standardization of the practice.

Any information on this standardization/regulation of qi gong in China would be greatly appreciated, both on a personal level as well as a beneficial addition to the article. Shaggorama 22:53, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] About translation of "qigong" from Chinese to English

As of April, 2006, the article claims that "Qi means breath...gong means work...Qigong is then 'breath work'...." This is a misreading of 气功(simple form) 氣功(full form) as though instead it were 气工(simple form) 氣工(full form). The same mistake is occasionally found in Chinese. The character 功(gōng) of 气功(simple form) 氣功(full form) is a combination 工(gōng "work") and 力(lì "strength") and means "achievement" or "skill" as in 成功(chénggōng "succeed") and 功力(gōnglì "craftsmanship"). A better English equivalent would be "breathing skills," although there are citations such as 常用体育词汇中英文对照 that call it "breathing exercises." Before spiraling onward with interpretation of 气(simple form) 氣(full form, Qì) as "spirit" it would be helpful to note common associations in 嗳气(simple form) 噯氣 (full form, ǎiqì "belch") and 放气(simple form) 放氣(full form, fàngqì "pass gas").

Craig Bolon 15:25, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

What you say makes sense, and I support including the above info in the article. --Fire Star 01:42, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chi Kung

Isn't Qigong the same as chi kung? And isn't chi kung a part of Tai Chi?

Yes. Yes and no: it is an essential part of genuine Tai Chi Chuan training, but it can be (and is) practiced as a stand-alone Art. Boris SDC 11:21, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung, Shaolin Kungfu and Taijiquan/Tai Chi Chuan

Greetings all,

I am a practitioner of genuine (and I stress "genuine") Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung and genuine Shaolin Kungfu and I am in vehement opposition to much of what is discussed here.

First of all, "Qi" or "Chi" is best translated as "Energy" and NOT as "Breath". It is the process of cultivating and maintaining one's own energy or "Qi" for all aspects of health and for use in Martial Arts.

LK Tucker: "Qi is a construction of the human mind and exists only as human thought." This is dangerously incorrect. I'd be happy to elaborate if anybody wishes.

"Short-term intense exposure produces a 'first psychotic episode.' But when exposure to Subliminal Distraction is low level but persistent, permanent psychotic altered mental states are created.

Example: Martial arts acolytes believe they can project qi from their fingertips and strike opponents knocking them down without touching them."

This is true. It is NOT a psychotically altered mindstate or belief. Qi is an integral part of training in genuine Shaolin Kungfu.

Yes, people can project qi from their fingertips to damage an opponent in genuine Shaolin Kungfu. It is a part of training in the technique "One-Finger Shooting Zen".

Also, you cited in your post: "Qi Gong users are told to think of achieving general good health rather than a specific cure while they perform the exercise. When their brain misunderstands the repeating subliminal stimulation as reinforcement for those thoughts they are conditioned to believe they received a benefit. They may well get a real benefit. The effect of this phenomenon is unknown in the field of psychology."

This statement is contradictory. The effects of Chi Kung can not be explained by psychology or by any paradigm of western medicine, yet it claims that manipulated thoughts by the brain are "conditioning" the practitioner...This also is dangerously incorrect.

I wish to state here that the effects of genuine Chi Kung and Shaolin Kungfu (including Taijiquan/Tai Chi Chuan) are best understood through direct experience. People here are making posts which seek to intellectualise these processes. In doing so, the arts are degraded into the realm of speculation and as a practitioner of the genuine arts, I aim to rectify these outrageous statements by speaking from my own personal experience. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Cragget (talk • contribs).

Greetings. Like a lot of other subjects, there are probably as many opinions on this as there are people who are interested in it. What we have to provide to have an opinion listed are sources for those opinions. What we have to avoid are the results of our own experiences with any given subject. That is the editorial nature of an encyclopaedia like Wikipedia. It is set up so that we have to think less like authors of original articles and more like reporters of notable research and other opinions on well known subjects. So, while one group's opinion is that qi doesn't mean breath (and should also be included here if it is sourced properly), dictionaries tell us that for a billion Chinese speakers the word is used to mean breath (and other things, too, of course) every day, so that kind of reference has a place in our articles. I hope this helps explain the perspective you find here. --Fire Star 火星 15:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

So, while one group's opinion is that qi doesn't mean breath (and should also be included here if it is sourced properly), dictionaries tell us that for a billion Chinese speakers the word is used to mean breath (and other things, too, of course) every day, so that kind of reference has a place in our articles.

I understand that. However, the translation for "Qi" in this very context (Qigong) does not refer to breath, it refers to energy. The translation is also not a matter of opinion.

What we have to avoid are the results of our own experiences with any given subject.

With regards to the genuine arts like Chi Kung, Kungfu and Taijiquan, experience is the best way to understand them. Posting from my own experience will be the most accurate and factual information that I can provide. With "any given subject", I agree, thorough research must be conducted. But these arts are not just "any given subject". As I said in my last post, people are trying to intellectualise these processes, and in doing so they are making severe misjudgements and false statements. These statements are then taken as fact just because they can say that it came from some book and it is extremely damaging to the reputation of the genuine arts. Don't get me wrong, I do plan to back up a lot of what I am saying with references from books. What I'm more referring to are the references taken from scientific texts and texts that attempt to use a western paradigm to explain these processes. In the article, I think it should be stipulated that while western science attempts to explain Chi Kung, it has so far been unsuccessful. Any factual elements of this article should be devoid of any western scientific rationalisation whatsoever. --User:Cragget 09:05, 27 October 2006

Greetings. The solution for the breath/energy thing is to mention both, as we do. Which came first is a chicken or the egg thing that is lost in the depths of time. I agree skeptically minded followers of the scientific method usually state that the results claimed by martial arts students and patients of traditional Chinese medicine practitioners can be explained without invoking esoteric or supernatural processes. In answer, proponents of qigong maintain that since modern scientific technologies have to this point been unable to create life out of organic chemicals in their laboratories, and that as qi is a metaphor for the energy of life itself, it is to be thereby demonstrated that the mechanisms of how the subject of such a metaphor would work so far elude the abilities of the scientific community to describe. As for reporting your experiences, it is OK for your experiences to inform what you report (we all do that), but the actual reporting itself has to be from notable, verifiable sources or the first experienced editor who sees it will remove it. For instance, quoting famous authorities like Yang Chengfu, Wu Jianquan, Sun Lutang, etc. in aid of representing a traditional view of the subject won't raise any meaningful objections to say what you want to say, for example. --Fire Star 火星 15:08, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Even in martial arts community, there are alot of different views of qi gong, and more will continue as chinese martial arts is spread beyond ancient china. I think we need to remember that this is an encyclopedia, not a guide to martial arts. An encyclopedia should try to present an unbias view as is possible. As much as pracitioners may not like it, a large amount of people do not believe in qigong and think it is a placebo at best. We must respect their opinion even if we do not agree. As an encyclopedia, these disbelief views should be kept. However, since this is a qigong article, i dont understand why half the article is about its "controversy." We need someone to expand this. Also, as 'huo xing' above stated, please reference quotes.

in terms of science or psuedoscience: if it cannot be observed, it is not science. That has nothing to do with truth. Science does not deal with truth. It deals with observations and mechanisms in nature. Truth belongs in philosophy class; not in science. If you cannot observe something, then it is perfectly acceptable to call is psuedoscience (although technically there are other qualifications needed). I think the problem is psuedoscience has a bad connotation which people want to avoid or feel disrepected when the art they practice is called that.

I could be wrong, but i think there might be a problem also dealing with the simplification of the chinese characters. There were two words pronounced exactly the same but slightly differently. One meant breath, and the other did mean energy but in a biological connotation. During simplification, these two words are now written the same. however, since the second word, meaning energy, was not used in everyday speech i cannot be sure of the connotation. There are many words for energy/power in chinese with subtle differences or connotative differences. some of these words are meaningless without other words or only represent broad ideas.

As a martial artist, I think an addition should be made to address the core complaint, martial arts/qigong must be exerienced not read from books. This saying is true for pretty much anything, including science where mearly reading books will not teach you the material. I think a section should be added to address the practice habits of qigong. The typical ways in which people learn qigong and practice qigong. WE should strenghten the connection between qigong practice and Chinese martial arts and the attainment of "kung fu." A list of popular qigong sets would also be nice. --Blckavnger 20:01, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../q/i/g/Talk%7EQigong_0a8d.html"

Categories: Unassessed China-related articles | Unknown-importance China-related articles | Wikipedia controversial topics