Talk:Puma
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is supported by the Cats WikiProject.
This project provides a central approach to Cat-related subjects on Wikipedia. |
|
| ??? | This article has not yet received a rating on the Project's quality scale. Please rate the article and then leave a short summary here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article. | |
 |
This article is part of WikiProject California, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to California on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page to join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. |
| High | This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale. |
 |
This article is part of WikiProject Texas, a WikiProject related to the U.S. state of Texas. |
 |
WikiProject Echo has identified Puma as a foreign language featured article. You may be able to improve this article with information from the German language Wikipedia. |
[edit] ?
What is there to be discussed?
- Subspecies: genetic research indicates that there are actually only 6 subspecies of Puma concolor. The current classification strikes me as old fashioned science that sees separate populations and calls them seperate subspecies just because. I've seen this with elk and many other species and because of environmental interests some people seem willing to defend the outdated subspecies. Look people, we should not let our desires get in the way of science. If Puma concolor cougar is genetically unimportant, we should not protect them on that basis. We should change the law to recognize the importance of native species throughout their range rather than having the Endangered Species Act which sees one small population of a species (or subspecies) as a sufficient act of conservation. The current system of subspecies in North America dates back to the 40s. If no one objects to phylogenic evidence (http://www.coryi.org/Florida_panther/Miscellaneous_Panther_Material/Genomic%20ancestry%20of%20the%20American%20puma.pdf), I would like to replace the contents of the subspecies section with the following:
- Genetic evidence has shown that many of the subspecies previously recognized were genetically indistinguishable from one another (reference to above link). This study indicates that the original North American subspecies of Puma concolor went extinct during the pleistocene extinctions some 10,000 years ago and that North America was then repopulated by South American Pumas, leading to the genetic similarity of modern North American cougars. The subspecies determined by Dr. Culver are the following
- North American Cougar (Puma concolor cougar): includes the previous subspecies coryi, shorgeri, cougar, azteca, improcera, missoulensis, hippolestes, oregonensis, vancouverensis, californica, kaibabensis, browni, stanleyana, and mayensis
- Costa Rican Cougar (Puma concolor costaricensis)
- Northern South American Cougar (Puma concolor concolor): includes the previous subspecies concolor, bangsi, soderstromi, incarum, and osgoodi
- Southern South American Puma (Puma concolor puma): includes the previous subspecies patagonica, puma, pearsoni, and araucanus
- Eastern South American Cougar (Puma concolor capricornensis): includes the previous subspecies discolor and acrocodia
- Argentine Puma (Puma concolor cabrerae)
- Genetic evidence has shown that many of the subspecies previously recognized were genetically indistinguishable from one another (reference to above link). This study indicates that the original North American subspecies of Puma concolor went extinct during the pleistocene extinctions some 10,000 years ago and that North America was then repopulated by South American Pumas, leading to the genetic similarity of modern North American cougars. The subspecies determined by Dr. Culver are the following
- The common names I made up, but the subspecies are from the paper. I guess I'd have to make a new article for North American Cougar. Thoughts? I'd like to include the maps in figure 1 from the link above but I'm not sure how all the copyright stuff works on Wikipedia...
-
- I went ahead and changed it, but for some reason the eastern cougar link is dead. Any idea why? Eco jake 13:30, 26 July 2006 (UTC)Eco Jake
I object strongly to the changes in description of subspecies status made by Eco Jake, as there is no scientific consensus to support his views. Dr. Culver's findings are interesting, but do not in themselves constitute or warrant a revision of subspecies standing. The original subspecies list should be restored, followed by a summary of Dr. Culver's findings, with the caveats included that no consensus has been reached on subspecies changes and that other factors are considered in addition to reported genetic similarities on a molecular level.
(The comment below is cross-posted on the Florida panther discussion page):
The dialogue between subspecies lumpers and splitters is ongoing for many animals, including puma, but there is certainly no consensus to revise subspecies status for the Florida panther. Given the relevance to protection under the Endangered Species Act, such a revision should not be proposed lightly. Although a recent study describes the subspecies of Puma concolor as fairly similar on a molecular level, the panther is one of the more distinctive of the subspecies, and factors other than molecular similarity are considered when deciding whether to revise subspecies status. Recent scientific articles about the Florida panther retain the subspecies designation (see Beier et al. 2006 and Conroy et al. 2006), as does the the Draft USFWS Florida Panther Recovery Plan, recently released for public comment.
Beier, P, MR Vaughan, MJ Conroy, and H Quigley. 2006. Evaluating scientific inferences about the Florida Panther. Journal of Wildlife Management 70:236-245. online URL: http://www.wildlifejournals.org/archive/0022-541X/70/1/pdf/i0022-541X-70-1-236.pdf
Conroy, MJ, P Beier, H Quigley, and MR Vaughan. 2006. Improving the use of science in conservation: lessons from the Florida panther. Journal of Wildlife Management 70:1-7. online URL: http://www.wildlifejournals.org/archive/0022-541X/70/1/pdf/i0022-541X-70-1-1.pdf
Ecover 00:28, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, reverted to earlier list. Betula 17:18, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry about the lack of response - I've been away from computers for a while. I see the validity of your point and it seems like a good compromise to state both viewpoints. Eco jake
[edit] Subjects
Whether the puma is going to become extinct and whether they would eat us all, if given the chance, are two things that I think of. Lir 08:38 Nov 20, 2002 (UTC)
- The article claims that only 16 persons have been killed by a puma since 1890. So I'm guessing that qualifies as "no" in response to your second question. - Anon
-
- Hm.. If that's so, let's see you go hang out in the puma habitat in a zoo. - Anon2
No to the second question, but I'm not going to the zoo's cougar cage to find out!211.72.108.3 02:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Classification
The Felidae page suggests the Puma is in a separate genus, not part of the Felis genus. -- Loren
- Fixed :) -- Timwi 21:58 21 Jun 2003 (UTC)
No ,it isn't of the Felis genus. It's Puma Concolor.211.72.108.3 02:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] RV
large hunting cat? tell me, is there any cat that doesn't? zadcat 07:00, 3 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- Good point. - Anon
Yeah, there's no cat that doesn't hunt.211.72.108.3 02:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Classification
Above says genus contradiction is fixed but it still exists. Species page says "Felis concolor" but the family Felidae page says mountain lion is part of genus Puma and not genus Felis.
I think the consensus within the scientific community is that the puma should definitely be in its own genus (having enough autapomorphies to warrant this); moreover mtDNA analysis suggests it's related to the cheetah (weird, I know).
i think cheetahs are the best so they are obviously related to pumas 203.206.51.36 12:43, 14 September 2005 (UTC)anna
POV POV POV!!! POV ALERT! See above message. 61.230.78.158 07:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Distribution
The map and article texts describe different distributions - The text describes verified sigtings along Lake Superior, whereas the map shows the limit of the distribution as several hundred miles to the east. I think the map is based on old information, although there is a lot of controversy over the presence of cougar in the eastern US. Toiyabe 00:00, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
--John A. Lutz 23:46, 1 July 2006 (UTC)==Sound of puma== Is there any audio media that'd give a good picture of what a puma sounds like? I've heard puma can purr and thus can't roar. It sounds strange, though. Does puma meow then? chery 06:54, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
- The only cats that can roar are those in genus Panthera; they have a modified hyoid bone. They can purr as well, though.
- As cats go, pumas aren't of the quiet persuasion, in any case. They may purr, hiss, cry, chirp (surprising as it may sound), snarl and yowl; it's this last sound, usually employed as a mating call, which is most distinctive. 212.145.174.77 10:02, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
There is an overabundance of unpublished data surrounding documented evidence showing wild pumas continue to survive in the eastern United States. I personally have gathered more than 7,500 reports and conducted hundreds of field investigative studies since 1965. At least 50% of my reports were made by the most credible witnesses who were or are trained observers with backgrounds in wildlife, forestry and law enforcement in the mid-atlantic states. In those 40+ years of field studies, we have gathered enough evidence in the form of videotapes, photographs and plaster casts of tracks, including adult and cubs together that should satisfy any serious researcher. –John A. Lutz
[edit] Puma fight
I know for a fact that the best way to fight off a Puma is with another Puma. I think that this should be added to the Puma safety tips. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.203.112.45 (talk • contribs).
- Very few people travel with a puma, so that addition would not be helpful. You'd be better off carrying a big squeaky toy to distract him.
Coyoty 18:59, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
SILLY! Who would take a puma along to hike? Where would you obtain one? Why wouldn't your puma attack you? Etc. There's a whole bunch of problems to this theory. Absurd!211.72.108.3 02:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
OK, whoever gave that advice to bring a puma on the hiking trail for safety surely deserves some kind of acknowledgement for most surreal traveling tip (possibly ever!!). Would you also advice taking a shark to go swimming with? Or perhaps I should walk around with a rattlesnake in my pocket just in case... Man, what were you on when you decided to shield yourself against puma attacks on the trail like that??
Can't roar? I swear I've seen cougars depicted as making a schreeching sound much like a roar. But I guess that could just be on TV...
- A roar is a very specific phenomenon that only cats from the genus Panthera can make. Their ancestors' anatomy evolved to allow them to make this deep cry. I don't know what you'd call the sound a puma makes (a cry perhaps?) but it is at any rate not a roar.Eco jake 23:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)Eco Jake
Yes it is called a cry and many articles call it a screech. I want to mention that I've seen an impressive video of a puma fending off a grizzly bear. I menation this because I don't think many articles give much credit of pumas' fighting abilities. They may be somewhat shy and only are fierce against other invading pumas, but when it comes to protecting their young or themsleves they appear feircer than anything!
Are you guys sure mountain lions don't roar, I've heard one roar before it was close to me too, I'll tell ya I never rode my bike so fast in my life.64.230.108.232 19:35, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
No, mountain lions cannot roar at all; only tigers, lions, jaguars and leopards are capable of that little trick. However, there is one sound they are infamous for, because it sounds an awful lot like a woman screamin
[edit] Cryptozoology
This page needs some editing to remove the crpytozoological aspects and keep the focus on the known facts about the animal. Although there are reported sightings from time to time in New England, all inquiries made by biologists and other wildlife experts have failed to produce any evidence that here is a surviving population and instead the sightings seem explanable by misidentification of the area's native wildcats (Lynx and Bobcats) and even of large domestic cats. The same is true of the alleged New York State incidents. The "phantom Cougar" stories could be placed on a page in the cryptozoology section but do not belong on the main page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.172.69.2 (talk • contribs).
[edit] Elisha Cuthbert
Elisha Cuthbert's character on the TV show 24 (Kim Bauer) was caught in a snare trap. Supposedly while filming, Elisha was attacked, but this was not while "hiking in the wilderness", it was while filming a show. Very misleading. Someone who knows more about this should correct it.
[edit] Surprisingly sloppy page
Considering the amount of information available about this animal, I'm surprised at the content of this article. Too much of the article focuses on human attacks and "popular culture" while there is nothing about mountain lions in native American culture. Nor is there any information about the various names of the animal and what it's called in which regions (which is the reason I visited this page in the first plave). I'd like to see information like this: http://www.floridaconservation.org/panther/handbook/natural/whatname.html.
Also, I'm surprised that there's no discussion or controversy regarding the use of the name "puma" instead of "cougar" or "mountain lion" as the page title. There is seemingly no real consensus (the San Diego Zoo website says "mountain lion" (http://www.sandiegozoo.org/animalbytes/t-puma.html) while the Western North Carolina Nature Center calls them "cougars" (http://wildwnc.org/af/cougar.html). The only consensus I can see is that in North America the animal is *never* called the puma. That name appears to be strictly European in its popularity. I'd love to see a link to research that identifies this nomenclature as the English language norm. Thanks, all. 69.231.194.152 21:07, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, not true that it's never called puma in north america! That was one of the first names--maybe THE first--that I learned for it as a kid just in talking to other kids and/or school and/or family. (Probably Colorado or New York.) Elf | Talk 05:29, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
- It's usually called a cougar, mountain lion, or panther here in Indiana where I live, but there are a sizable amount of people who call them 'pumas' here too. I've never heard it was just a European name, just that the other names were more popular in North America. - Indy Gold 20:22, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
To be frank, I have heard at least eight of the names mentioned here in the States, all in different areas of the country. For example, "painter" you'd probably find in parts of Tennessee, but in Vermont they still adhere to "catamount" (the word itself is a contraction of the phrase "cat of the mountains".) The name "puma" you'll find just about anywhere (especially useful when conversing with a Spanish speaker, as it is the same in both languages.)
[edit] Extraterritorial Occurences: Released Captives
Some years ago, before I became acquainted with Wikipedia, I was on vacation in Maine and saw a story in the Portland paper about cougar tracks in the area. Some were well preserved, and the local game warden said they were definitely cougar. The state wildlife authorities said that there may be a remnant population of cougars in Maine's north woods, but the Portland area is too populous for a remnant population, and these tracks must have been made by a released captive animal.
National Public Radio had a story a few years ago about a population of cougars in Devonshire in England. They were said to be black, and to have been verified as cougars by zoological experts. They were formidable evening hunters, and helped themselves liberally to sheep, as the local sheepfolds were of course not designed to keep cougars out. There was no question that these animals must have been released from a private zoo. A few years earlier the keeping of normally wild animals had been made considerably more expensive, and someone had irresponsibly turned his animals loose, and they had prospered in what remains of rural England. J S Ayer 02:18, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Range Expansion?
The reason why people are seeing cougars in odd places these days does hold a kernel of truth in it, and it seems to have to do with range expansion. Recently North Dakota acknowledged the presence of the cats within its borders, as have some other midwestern states. Dr. Maurice Hornocker even endorsed the idea that the cats are moving back home as it were, and if you take out a map and chart where solid evidence has been found (pug marks, carcasses, or poop) your eyes will go wide.
I guess my question is, why has nobody written about this?
[edit] Name
For an animal with so many names (Puma, Cougar, Moutain lion, etc) this article lacks any mention of these names and where these words come from/where they are used. Not only that, but these are also just nicknames. i don't care how names differnet people use, the scientific name would have helped.
[edit] Puma Safety Tips
The article says "Instead, stand and face the animal, but do not make eye contact (experts suggest looking at the feet)." Is that your feet or the cat's feet? I've found two references that contradict this advice: both http://www.adventuresmart.ca/cougarsafety.php and http://www.macecanada.com/tips/cougars.htm say "keep direct eye contact with the cougar". Julesd 15:21, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] How big is the damned thing?
I couldn't find that anywhere, which is a surprisingly basic peice of information not to have in an article. -Toptomcat 02:52, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
Up to about 180-200 lbs. Big.
They are also about 6 feet long from nose to tail.
I find the sentence "They are secretive cats who sometimes avoid people, and attacks on humans are not extremely rare." ridiculous. They will nearly always avoid humans and attacks ARE extremely rare. Some parts of this article seem like they were written by a puma hunter apologist.
[edit] Mesonychid
I am confused on the talk of Mesonychid under the Attacks on Humans section. Mesonychids are extinct. Is the author saying the specialists think one of these was doing the predation?
[edit] Vandalism
I just wanted to let you all know I deleted content about lime green pumas and whatnot. Fortunia 23:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Leaping Puma Picture Deleted
There was a cool picture, "A Puma leaping at the camera" that was deleted: "06:00, 4 December 2006 Robth (Talk | contribs) m (rm deleted image)"
Does anyone have a link to the picture? Does anyone know why it was deleted?
Thanks. Sam6147 23:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Typing slurs
Typing and wording were terrible, this goes for the editing, too
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.39.251.35 (talk) 20:58, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
