Talk:Pu-erh tea

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[edit] Article Revamp

Based on the "To Do" list below, I've revamped the article, incorporating previous information and including much, much more information about the tea and reorganizing the topics more comprehensively. I've added regions, factories, a dissection of a cake, and lots of characters and pinyin. My pinyin may not be 100% correctly formulated (I don't know Chinese tone-shifting rules), and I welcome any changes by those with this knowledge. --Bearsbearsbears 08:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Necessary Sections / To Do List

1. Can we create a disambiguation page that would redirect "Pu'er" to "Pu-erh"? Or, better yet, considering that "pu'er" is the pinyin form, and this tea is from the mainland, rename this post entirely to "Pu'er Tea"? I don't mean to approach political issues regarding Wades-Giles and Pinyin, only to reflect the heritage of the tea. 2. It would be helpful to include Chinese characters wherever possible for names of places and concepts in pu'er, most helpful to include both simplified & traditional.

3. There are a lot of issues to cover about this tea that need flushing out, as this is a complex tea:

a) Pedigree by factory, tea mountain/region, year, and season: any understanding or even introduction to pu'er has to approach the idea of the factory (wine analogy: bottling company), tea mountain/region (vineyard/grape region), year (vintage), and season (spring pu'er, autumn pu'er, summer pu'er, are usually valued in that order, with an occasional strange winter production)

b) Tea Mountains and Regions: what are some of the major regions (Bulang, Bangwei, Nannuo, Banzhang, Lincang, Simao, Snow Mountain, Menghai, Mengsa, Yiwu, etc.), and hopefully some information about them.

c) Pu'er shapes: What are they, their history, their benefits for aging.

d) The Marketplace/Trends: Taiwanese businessmen who are pu'er fans forming small-batch operations; lots of fakes of new and old teas in the marketplace, particularly for aged tea, and particularly online; pu'er in the news, maybe?

e) Pictures! I have quite a few, but could use some help posting them.

f) Anatomy of a cake: neifei, neipiao, etc. (something akin to what's available on Hou De Asian Art but with more information)

g) Aging: what are ideal conditions for aging, what changes does aging bring about, etc. There is very little information about this process in English, so I suspect that no more than a cursory review of this information could be constructed.

h) Recipes - deciphering a recipe code. Bearsbearsbears 22:51, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Great additions Bears! I can respond to a couple of your questions.

1) I've created the disambiguation page and a couple of other articles, one of which redirects here (Pu'er (tea)).

e) I can help you with pictures if you'd like to message me. Otherwise, there there are two guides which may be of use. The first guide helps you upload images. The second guide helps you place the uploaded images into the article.

Thanks for the help with the article, Scott5834 07:54, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Random stuff

The following line is removed. The facts are flawed. Over this time it acquires an earthy flavor due to the layer of mold that develops on the leaves (or tea brick if they are compressed). -- sltan

This article is completely lacking in sources and citations. Of particular concern for me is the line "Pu-erh tea has been subject to a number of health studies. A number of medical studies have substantiated claims that the tea helps reduce cholesterol levels and saturated fats in humans, and that it might also assist in weight loss." Is there any evidence for this? Or is it something that the manufacturers and marketeers would like to have us believe?

Pur-Erh should be classified under green tea. --sltan

I have found many references to the presence of mold in at least some varieties of Pu-Erh tea, so I have restored language in the article that mentions it (along with the fermentation and earthy flavor that are characteristic of this tea). Dr.frog 23:28, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Please post the references, it would be interesting. --Iateasquirrel 22:39, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, it doesn't matter, since the author that wrote "Judging quality" has clear the dust. Actually, the "special quality Pur-Er with mold" are merely myth created by unscrupulous traders to sell the inferior products.--Sltan 18:58, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks ;) But I'm not sure most of the "dust" has cleared. First, aging and ripening of most pu-erhs

do require the presence of some mold species (A. niger). Second, a slightly moldy tea does make the tea taste smoother, as such some collectors (though less so now) will promote their growth by storing their tea in damp environments. Sjschen 02:34, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Black teas...

The problem with saying that puer cannot be processed from black tea is a confusion of terms. There are three main classifications of tea: Red, Black and Green. All teas begin as green teas, and can be adulterated to become black or red.

Red tea is what we call "Black Tea" in the west. It is tea that is partially fermented. True Black teas are processed in more intense ways, and Oolong is one of the black teas.

Pu'er tea can fall into two categories: Fermented Green Tea, (生茶）Sheng Cha and Black (processed,not red) tea, （熟饼）Shu Bing - this type of pu'er is less valuable as it has been adulterated to accelerate the natural aging process.

There is a third kind of Pu'er, known as 青毛 Qingmao or green hairs. These are the fresh leaves of what will eventually become real pu'er after a few years.

There are a few things that need addressing in this article: Pu'er is in no way related to Oolong tea The chemical aging process is more complex than mere mold or fermentation, and not fully understood. The initial processing is to wash and trample the leaves, then allow them to dry in indirect sunlight. The old caravans would soak the tea again in cold water to fit their mule packs better, and then the tea would pass through several altitudes and climate zones on the way to Canton (Guangdong). True Pu'er is never heated, but stored in underground cellars to age naturally.

I'll try and add something to the article when I can get something more solid. Regards, Jeff Crosby

[edit] Fermented vs. cultured.

Is the process that changes Green Tea to Pu-Erh best described as fermentation? My understanding of the process is that the tea is cultured -- more like milk into yogurt, than grapes into wine. Isn't "fermentation" the conversion of sugar into alcohol and carbon dioxide? Perhaps it is the established term and has a wider meaning than this and I am mistaken, but I imagine most people would have this idea of fermentation as well. Perhaps a line clarifying the difference in meaning would be helpful.4.158.141.210 23:02, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

This is tricky, the dictionary using Dictionary program on GNOME gives that fermentation is simply in the wider sense organic transformation of things to new things. I think in terms of Pu-erh fermentation is correct and it is often used, also some people say oxidation as the processes apparently occur only when Pu-erh is exposed to air. Why I think using fermentation is better; because oxidation can be used in terms of Oolong and Black/Red tea and its a somewhat different process. --Iateasquirrel 02:26, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Two suggestions

Great article. Two suggestions: 1) discuss the Cantonese style tea that is half pu'erh and half chrysanthemum flowers (called "leihua"?); and 2) make a page for the Pu'erh County that the tea is from. Badagnani 08:23, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cantoneese

Can the characters for the Cantonese "bolei"/"bolay"/"bonay" be added? Badagnani 10:05, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't know Cantonese, but I think those are mainly different pronunciation for the same 2 chinese characters. Sjschen 17:35, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Can we add "bonay"? I don't have any idea how they derive that pronunciation but it's used on the Foojoy package and elsewhere, I believe. Badagnani 05:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Sure, why not? The more the merrier! Sjschen 05:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Six famous tea mountains

I've seen a couple of different versions of mountains listed as being the "six mountains". Which are you ones that we should note down? There is some interesting information about it here, but is there a more primary source for the information? Sjschen 19:47, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I think that the second list of Six Famous Tea Mountains is erroneous and needs to be investigated. I'll check my sources and see what I can find. Xiefeilaga 05:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] On passing GA

Article is comprehensive, well referenced, and well organized. All images are relevant and well licensed. Good job! --Jayron 32 05:26, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Time for more nit-picking: The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

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    • arguably
    • might be weasel words, and should be provided with proper citations (if they already do, or are not weasel terms, please strike this comment).[6]
  • Please make the spelling of English words consistent with either American or British spelling, depending upon the subject of the article. Examples include: flavor (A) (British: flavour), flavour (B) (American: flavor), categorise (B) (American: categorize), ization (A) (British: isation), catalyze (A) (British: catalyse), aging (A) (British: ageing), any more (B) (American: anymore), grey (B) (American: gray), curb (A) (British: kerb), mold (A) (British: mould), mould (B) (American: mold).
  • Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
    • While additive terms like “also”, “in addition”, “additionally”, “moreover”, and “furthermore” may sometimes be useful, overusing them when they aren't necessary can instead detract from the brilliancy of the article. This article has 28 additive terms, a bit too much.
    • Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
  • As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space inbetween. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2]
  • Please provide citations for all of the {{fact}}s.
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You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Sjschen 02:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

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