Talk:Proto-Indo-European language
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[edit] Consensus
The first alinea reads:
- The Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) is the hypothetical common ancestor of the Indo-European languages. The existence of such a language is generally accepted by linguists, though there has been debate about many specific details.
Surely "generally accepted" should be changed to "universally accepted"? Are there any linguists who dispute the existence of PIE as a common ancestor? Iblardi 20:49, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
- There are plenty of Indian writers who do not accept the notion of PIE and feel that Sanskrit was the mother language. They don't publish in international fora nor do they submit their work to peer review, so I feel that their opinions are irrelevant for Wikipedia, but there are various Indian editors (just look in the archives of this Talk page) who loudly protest at their exclusion. CRCulver 21:01, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
-
- Oops, I clearly missed that discussion. Should have read the archive, then. I actually decided to just go ahead and edit the section, but I chose to make the wording a little less strong by leaving out both terms. Of course, it could be reverted back anyway. Iblardi 21:12, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
- I must add that I think the original wording is misleading to the general reader, myself included. Iblardi 23:00, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
- Well, one more issue is that rather common suspicion that the PIE we know was never a real spoken language, but the reconstructions are merely an elucidation of the correspondences between various languages that have been in a complicated dialect-continuum relationship. The comparative method has taken many beatings in recent decades. CRCulver 23:46, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
- the "Indian writers" are not the point, these are political authors, not linguists. But it is true that some linguists are reluctant to accept PIE as a historical reality, and prefer to see the reconstructions as algebraic symbols encoding regular relationships between the attested languages. dab (ᛏ) 00:32, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
- I see where I went wrong. I equalled the notion that IE languages share a common ancestry to the theory of PIE as a historical, spoken language, which is of course not the same thing. Iblardi 17:07, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
- the "Indian writers" are not the point, these are political authors, not linguists. But it is true that some linguists are reluctant to accept PIE as a historical reality, and prefer to see the reconstructions as algebraic symbols encoding regular relationships between the attested languages. dab (ᛏ) 00:32, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
- Well, one more issue is that rather common suspicion that the PIE we know was never a real spoken language, but the reconstructions are merely an elucidation of the correspondences between various languages that have been in a complicated dialect-continuum relationship. The comparative method has taken many beatings in recent decades. CRCulver 23:46, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Reason for success of indo-european langues?
Indo-european langues is the worlds largest langue family. Alsou indo-european langues, such as sanskrit had great influence (and importance) in non indo-european areas. And most of international langues is i-e, too. In central asia i-e langues losed they positions, but still i-e (russian) is used as lingua franca. Does there is known reasons for such succses and widespread of I-E langues? Some linguistic properties, learnability, langue richness, domestication of horse or just agresivity of i-e cultures? (Clearly not a race as tought in early 20th century) IMHO if it is known, then it must be mentioned in article.159.148.13.146 16:56, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
-
- As far as I know, there is no such scientifical theory. I would say the influence of IE languages in the world today has more to do with the fact that those languages happened to be spoken in a region (Western Europe, generally) that acquired a great technological advantage after about 1500, and the subsequent expansion of the people living in that area, rather than with some kind of innate quality of the IE languages themselves, which would be extremely hard to prove. I would say social and cultural factors are much more important.
- As for the case of Russia, it would have been relatively easy to dominate the not-so-densely-populated and technologically backward hinterland. Where the technological advantage came from in the first place is a question on its own that would also be very difficult to answer.
- So no, I don't think it should be mentioned. Iblardi 18:37, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
- In fact Greek was used as lingua franca in Europe, the Miditerrian and Middle-Eastern regions many centuries before 16th century and even before the era of Hellinism.--Nixer 18:49, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
- That would be more easily explained by the fact that the Greeks were wide-spread as traders and colonists around the Mediterranean than by their language being Indo-European. Iblardi 19:05, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
- In fact Greek was used as lingua franca in Europe, the Miditerrian and Middle-Eastern regions many centuries before 16th century and even before the era of Hellinism.--Nixer 18:49, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
