Talk:Prince Frederick Charles of Hesse
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[edit] old musings
This guy had an international role, being king-elect of another country. (And, for other factors supporting internationality, please read the article.) his name was in translated form when elected monarch (Fredrik Kaarle) - as is the custom dealing with princes. 217.140.193.123 2 July 2005 19:11 (UTC)
- Agree.Arrigo 10:21, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
- Oppose Another case of 217.140.193.123/Arrigo sockpuppetry. Gryffindor 20:30, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
- Oppose Charles 18:12, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] misc
I wonder about the content on this page. It seems to me that much, maybe the most, of it is irrelevant to the person and is better covered in an article on Germany's non-military strategies to increase her influence in Central Europe during WWI. Parts of it would also surely fit in nicely in the articles on other countries (Baltic countries and Finland) history.
/Tuomas
See discussion at: Talk:Väinö I of Finland -- Jniemenmaa 11:24, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Jniemenmaa's revert was reasonable.
According to my understanding, Prinz Friedrich Karl was not so much a force behind the development, which is the impression one gets from the longer, now reverted, version of the article.
I might be wrong, and might have read only the wrong books, but I see him rather as a representative for his class, prepared to "serve" as a ruler if history directed him to such a position – to which he, after all, had been brought up.
--Ruhrjung 12:01, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- Friedrich Karl was not the first choice to be King of Finland, but Kaiser Wilhelm´s son Oscar. However Wilhelm was stricly agaist that kind of arrangement. So the Finnish monarhcists had to have other candidates. Duke of Mecklenburgh Adolf Friedrich, Prussian prince Friedrich Wilhelm and Prince of Hesse Friedrich Karl were chosen. Only Friedrich Karl was available after long serious consideration of his own. On the Oct. 9. 1918 he was elected to be king. No voting took place in election process and Maalaisliitto (Rural union) and the only Social Democrat MP took no part in election. However after Germany´s defeat in the great war, Friedrich Karl decided Dec. 4 1918 that he will not rise to the throne.
-
- You are perfectly right, although you here omit the forces outside of Finland. In December, 1918, there were really no other choises than to renounce the throne. It was hardly any sign of of the Prince's independent will to shape history, rather his ability to act in the best interest of Finland.--Ruhrjung 12:41, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
[edit] genealogical points
As he is perceived to have come to contact with Finland as a real foreigner, I intend to peruse some published information about his antecedents. In order not to burden the article with details, there goes only clear points.
1 Frederick Charles of Hesse
2 Anna of Prussia
3 Frederik of Hesse
4 Marie of Weimar
5 Carl of Prussia
6 Charlotte of Denmark
7 Wilhelm of Hesse
8 Maria Pavlovna of Russia
9 Carl Frederick of Weimar
10 Louise of Mecklenburg
11 Frederick William III of Prussia
12 Sophie Frederikke of Mecklenburg
13 Frederik of Denmark and Norway
14 Caroline of Nassau
15 Frederik of Hesse
16 Maria Fedorovna of Wurttemberg
17 Pavel Petrovich of Russia
18 Louis of Hesse
19 Carl August of Weimar
20 Frederikke of Hesse
21 Carl of Strelitz
22 Frederikke of Hesse
23 Frederick William II of Prussia
24 Charlotte of Coburg
25 Louis of Schwerin
26 Juliane Marie of Brunswick
27 Frederick V of Denmark
28 Caroline of Leiningen
29 Carl of Usingen
30 Mary of Great Britain
31 Frederick II of Hesse
32 Sophie Dorothea of Brandenburg-Schwedt
33 Frederick II Eugen of Wurttemberg
34 Catherine II of Russia, of Anhalt, descendant of Charles IX of Sweden, and also descendant of Dukes of Gottorp
35 Peter III Fedorovich of Russia, Duke of Gottorp, descendant of Charles XI of Sweden
36 Caroline of Palatinate-Birkenfeld
37 Louis IX of Hesse-Darmstadt, descendant of Charles IX of Sweden
38 Anna Amalia of Brunswick, descendant of Charles IX of Sweden
39 Ernest August II of Saxe-Weimar, descendant of Dukes of Sonderburg-Beck
40 Marie Louise of Leiningen, descendant of Counts of Ahlefeld
41 Georg Wilhelm of Hesse-Darmstadt, descendant of Charles IX of Sweden
42 Elisabeth of Saxe-Hildburghausen
43 Carl of Mecklenburg, descendant of Countess of Ostfriesland, the eldest daughter of Gustav I of Sweden
44 Caroline of Palatinate-Birkenfeld (=36)
45 Louis IX of Hesse-Darmstadt (=37), descendant of Charles IX of Sweden
46 Louise of Brunswick, descendant of Charles IX of Sweden
47 August Wilhelm of Prussia
48 Anne Sophie of Schwarzburg, descendant of Countess of Ostfriesland, the eldest daughter of Gustav I of Sweden
49 Francis of Saxony Coburg
50 Gustave Caroline of Mecklenburg, descendant of Countess of Ostfriesland, the eldest daughter of Gustav I of Sweden, and also descendant of Dukes of Gottorp
51 Christian Ludwig II of Mecklenburg-Schwerin, descendant of Countess of Ostfriesland, the eldest daughter of Gustav I of Sweden
52 Antoinette Amalie of Brunswick, descendant of Dukes of Schleswig-Norburg
53 Ferdinand Albrecht II of Wolfenbuttel, descendant of Charles IX of Sweden
54 Sophia Magdalena of Brandenburg-Kulmbach, descendant of Dukes of Sonderburg-Glucksburg
55 Christian VI of Denmark
56 Catherine of Solms, descendant of Counts of Ahlefeld
57 Christian of Leiningen
58 Christina Wilhelmina of Saxe-Eisenach, descendant of Countess of Ostfriesland, the eldest daughter of Gustav I of Sweden
59 Carl of Nassau-Usingen
60 Caroline of Brandenburg-Ansbach
61 George II of Great Britain
62 Dorothea Wilhelmine of Saxe-Zeitz, descendant of Dukes of Sonderburg-Glucksburg
63 William VIII of Hesse, nephew of Frederick I of Sweden
[edit] Merging
There should not be separate articles on Friedrich Karl as Friedrich Karl and on him as Vaino I of Finland. They are the same person. There should be a single encyclopedia article. john k 17:51, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Yeah, if the other article really was about the person an not about Finland's brief monarchistical adventure.
- OK, should then the Väinö-article be renamed to Finland's monarchistical adventure of 1918? Maybe, though I'm not so sure. "Väinö" may be apocryphical, but I believe that title to be in accordance with the Wikipedia principle of using that name that is best known (in English).
- /Tuomas 18:06, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
(4 months later - Jeez, I drop a lot of talk page threads) - Väinö is certainly not the name by which the man is best known. I don't know about monarchistical adventure, but I think renaming the Vaino article to something more generic would be worthwhile. john k 3 July 2005 17:58 (UTC)
[edit] Finland
Did Frederick Charles of Hesse ever actually set foot in Finland? JIP | Talk 10:27, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Rename
Request to move this either to Frederick Charles of Finland or to Charles of Finland. Henq 16:27, 19 June 2006 (UTC) This person was, briefly, the elected King of Finland. It has been his highest title ever, and now he is long dead. He is mostly remembered in connection to his kingship of Finland. The naming conventions direct to use such article name that indicates the highest title. This is at least as entitled to king's title as are Napoleon II of France and Louis XVII of France, who are under those titles and not under any "lower" naming.
[edit] Poll
- Support renaming to Frederick Charles of Finland. He was more commonly known as Frederick Charles than just Charles. Henq 16:27, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- Oppose. Hesse is the more common title. Finland in this case is more of an interesting footnote. Charles 18:23, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Discussion
- Finland is not a footnote. Frederick Charles is most notable for being elected king of Finland. Being part of German nobility is hardly notable in itself. -- Petri Krohn 13:48, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- He is rarely ever referred to by a Finnish title. Charles 18:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Result: No consensus; page not moved. Eugène van der Pijll 20:53, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
