Talk:Prefectures of Greece

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Prefectures of Greece article.

Contents

[edit] Achaea

Achaea is listed twice - one under Peloponnesus, one under West Greece. I assume it should be Pelopennesus? Is there something else missing from under West Greece, though? Morwen 17:51, Feb 8, 2004 (UTC)

Achaea is part of the West Greece perifery, which includes areas from Peloponnesus as well. See the map of the Peripheries of Greece. :) Etz Haim 01:44, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Prefecture names

See also discussion at Talk:Greece. I propose to use more consistent names for the prefectures, see below. Discussions about the "disputed" prefecture names below.Markussep 20:02, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

I've started the policy page Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(Greek), which might help. Obviously, traditional uses will make most of the page irrelevant. The Modern Greek section in particular needs work at the moment. --Nema Fakei 18:23, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

bold means: I propose to change this prefecture name to the bold name;
italic means: I propose not to use this rarely used traditional name.
Accents are indicated, but I don't propose to use the accents in the article names.

current Greek UN/ELOT roman. traditional remarks
Attica (also a periphery) Αττική Attikí Attica
Euboea Εύβοια Évvoia Euboea
Evrytania Ευρυτανία Evrytanía Eurytania Eurytania was not very important in antiquity.
Phocis Φωκίδα Fokída Phocis
Phthiotis Φθιώτιδα Fthiótida Phthiotis
Boeotia Prefecture Βοιωτία Voiotía Boeotia
Chalcidice Χαλκιδική Chalkidikí Chalcidice Chalkidiki is also used a lot in English.
Imathia Ημαθία Imathía -
Kilkis Prefecture Κιλκίς Kilkís -
Pella Πέλλα Pélla Pella
Pieria Πιερία Piería -
Serres Prefecture Σέρρες Sérres -
Thessaloniki Prefecture Θεσσαλονίκη Thessaloníki (Thes)salonica
Chania Prefecture Χανιά Chaniá -
Heraklion Prefecture Ηράκλειο Irákleio Heraklion/Iraklion For some reason Heraklion is the common name in English.
Lasithi Λασίθι Lasíthi -
Rethymno Prefecture Ρέθυμνο Réthymno Rethymnon
Drama Prefecture Δράμα Dráma -
Evros Prefecture Έβρος Évros -
Kavala Prefecture Καβάλα Kavála -
Rhodope Prefecture Ροδόπη Rodópi Rhodope
Xanthi Prefecture Ξάνθη Xánthi -
Arta Prefecture Άρτα Árta -
Ioannina Prefecture Ιωάννινα Ioánnina -
Preveza Prefecture Πρέβεζα Préveza -
Thesprotia Θεσπρωτία Thesprotía -
Corfu Κέρκυρα Kérkyra Corfu
Kefalonia Κεφαλλονιά Kefalloniá Cephallenia/Cephallonia Double "l" in the Greek and Latin name.
Lefkada Λευκάδα Lefkáda Leucas
Zakynthos Ζάκυνθος Zákynthos Zante
Chios Χίος Chíos -
Lesbos Λέσβος Lésvos Lesbos
Samos Σάμος Sámos -
Arcadia Αρκαδία Arkadía Arcadia
Argolis Αργολίδα Argolída Argolis
Corinthia Κορινθία Korinthía Corinthia
Laconia Λακωνία Lakonía Laconia
Messinia Μεσσηνία Messinía Messenia
Cyclades Κυκλάδες Kykládes Cyclades
Dodecanese Δωδεκάνησα Dodekánisa Dodecanese
Karditsa Prefecture Καρδίτσα Kardítsa -
Larissa Prefecture Λάρισα Lárisa Larissa For some reason Larissa is the common name in English.
Magnesia Μαγνησία Magnisía Magnesia Not so sure about this, maybe leave it at Magnesia because of Magnetes, Magnetism etc.
Trikala Prefecture Τρίκαλα Tríkala -
Achaea Αχαΐα Achaïa Achaea
Aetolia-Acarnania Αιτωλοακαρνανία Aitoloakarnanía Aetolia-Acarnania
Elis Prefecture Ηλεία Ileía Elis
Florina Prefecture Φλώρινα Flórina -
Grevena Prefecture Γρεβενά Grevená -
Kastoria Prefecture Καστοριά Kastoriá -
Kozani Prefecture Κοζάνη Kozáni -

[edit] Kefalonia

Omitted l, traditional?.

Kefalloniá (UN/ELOT romanization of modern Greek name)

  1. Markussep 08:23, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Cephallonia (Latin/traditional name)

no change/other

[edit] Comments

Larissa and Magnesia are also established English spellings. Larissa had σσ in ancient Greek. I have no idea why it has been changed. The most common meaning of Magnesia may be Magnesia-on-the-Maeander, but Magnisia/Magnesia is a really silly way of disambiguating the same word.

Wikipedia is inconsistent; but it would seem to make sense to merge Ilia into Elis and then let Elis Prefecture emerge as a subarticle, and likewise with the others. Septentrionalis 16:44, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

One other thing: prefectures named after a city. Two of them (Karditsa, Florina) are at the city name, and the city is at "X (city), Greece". I'd prefer the other way around, like it is for 16 others now (Arta, Chania, Drama, Ioannina, Kavala, Larissa, Rethymno, Serres, Thessaloniki, Trikala, Grevena, Kastoria, Kozani, Preveza, Xanthi, Kilkis), that are at X Prefecture, while the city is at X. Heraklion has no separate page for the city yet. Markussep 19:37, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Moved prefectures

[edit] Aitolia-Acarnania

Awful mixed romanization. Compare present articles Aetolia and Acarnania. Moved to Aetolia-Acarnania 27 July 2005.

Aitoloakarnanía (UN/ELOT romanization of modern Greek name)

Aetolia-Acarnania (combined Latin/traditional names)

  1. We have Aetolia and Acarnania. Septentrionalis 16:46, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
  2. good point. Markussep 15:24, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

no change/other

[edit] Evritania

BGN romanization. Moved 28 July.

Evrytanía (UN/ELOT romanization of modern Greek name)

  1. Markussep 08:23, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Eurytania (Latin/traditional name)

no change/other

[edit] Fthiotis

BGN or UN/ELOT romanization of ancient Greek name. Moved 28 July.

Fthiótida (UN/ELOT romanization of modern Greek name)

Phthiotis (Latin/traditional name)

  1. I disagree that "Phthiotis" is obscure; as the home of Achilles, at least, the established English name. Septentrionalis 16:11, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
Isn't that Phthia? Or is that the same? Markussep 15:55, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
Phthia in Homer, but Phthiotis as a contemporary term in later authors. "Was Phthia actually in Phthiotis?" would have been a meaningful question to Strabo. Septentrionalis 16:22, 22 July 2005 (UTC) I hope this is clear; if not talk to me.
  1. OK. Markussep 19:57, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

no change/other

[edit] Ilia Prefecture

BGN romanization. Elis is now about the ancient region. It should also be about the ancient city Elis, the capital of the region. Were their names different in ancient Greek? The city was Ήλις, modern name for the ruins: Ήλιδα / Ilida. Best keep the modern prefecture separate, as Elis Prefecture. Moved 29 July.

Comment: No, they were the same; this is an example of case simplification in Demotic. As with Athens, which included all Attica, the city eventually included the whole region - hence the name. (As far as I can see, the Prefecture is substantially the same as the ancient region; but if separate articles will avoid confusion, go for it.) Septentrionalis 17:24, 26 July 2005 (UTC)


Ileía (UN/ELOT romanization of modern Greek name)

Elis (Latin/traditional name, merge with current Elis)

  1. Fully support; English name. Septentrionalis 16:12, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

no change/other

[edit] Kardhitsa

"dh" for δ in BGN romanization, not recommended. City is at Karditsa (city), Greece. Moved prefecture to Karditsa Prefecture, 27 July 2005.

Kardítsa (UN/ELOT romanization of modern Greek name)

  1. Markussep 08:23, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
  2. Please; trying to figure out whether someone is using 'dh to mean δ or θ is just annoying; maybe add a pronunciation note. Septentrionalis 18:30, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

no change/other

[edit] Rodhopi

BGN romanization. The mountain range is at Rhodope Mountains, this should be at "Rhodope Prefecture". Moved 27 July.

Rodópi (UN/ELOT romanization of modern Greek name)

Rhodope (Latin/traditional name, disamb as Rhodope Prefecture)


  1. Markussep 08:23, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
  2. Septentrionalis 16:12, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

no change/other

[edit] Viotia

BGN romanization. Boeotia is used for the ancient region. IMO the prefecture should move to "Boeotia Prefecture". Moved 29 July.

Voiotía (UN/ELOT romanization of modern Greek name)

Boeotia (Latin/traditional name, merge with current Boeotia)

  1. Markussep 08:23, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
  2. Septentrionalis 16:13, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

no change/other

[edit] i don't get it

Can someone explain to me about the accented letters (í, ó, etc). I 've read Transliteration of Greek into English and still don't get it, because it is not mentioned there. See also Talk:Aliákmon. MATIA 16:43, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

What is it you don't get? I guess you're Greek, so you probably know more about monotonic orthography than I do. In transliteration you can keep the accent, but not everyone does that. I guess it would be better to show the accent, maybe also in the article titles. Markussep 17:08, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
Yes I am a Greek, but I don't understand the english part of the transliteration and it seems that some info are missing from the wiki with the rules. I dont understand the letters with accents in English words. MATIA 21:08, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
In normal English words accents are very rare, AFAIK they're only used in borrowed words like "café", and in poetry to indicate unexpected stress. I see no objection to use the Greek acute accents in English wikipedia, because they're obviously in foreign words (foreign names). It's not in the transliteration scheme yet. Markussep 21:25, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
Where can I read (external link perhaps?) about UN/ELOT roman. and the above table with the names? I thought that café has that accented e because it's from french. These doesn't seem right to me. MATIA 21:52, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
There's a link to the UN/ELOT romanization at the bottom of Transliteration of Greek into English. I made the romanizations of the prefecture names myself, it's pretty straightforward if you have the correct Greek names. About "café", that's exactly what I mean, the word is borrowed from French. Since accents are also used in wikipedia in French, Spanish, Italian, German etc. place names, why not use them for Greek names as well. The only difference is that these other languages have latin alphabet. What doesn't seem right to you?
Something else you may be able to help with: I've seen at least 4 variant names for Κεφαλλονιά/Κεφαλονιά/Κεφαλλήνια/Κεφαλήνια. Do you know which is the right one, for modern Greek (Κεφαλλήνια was the ancient name I think)? Markussep 07:38, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the tip. I've downloaded guide 1, guide 2, guide 3, and I'll check them. I knew that French words may keep their accents in English, but I haven't heard that before for Greek words. The island is called Κεφαλλονιά and the prefecture is Νομαρχία Κεφαλληνίας. Perhaps you'll be interested in the official site for statistics. On the other hand according to Talk:Aliákmon greek gov. sites don't always use the same transliteration, but I'll get back to you. MATIA 08:46, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
I've read the UN/ELOT guides (your numbers 1 and 3) again, apparently they keep the accents (at least the monotonic ones). So if we want to really follow this system, we have to show the accents. I'm not sure whether to move all Greek geographic articles to an accented version or not, that should be discussed with more people. Markussep 09:39, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

My preferred way to do this is to use no accents in the running text, article title, or initial bolded mention, because the names in English don't use accents (and in some cases, like Athens, the English name isn't even a transliteration at all). In the parentheses giving the Greek version, I'll give a more literal transliteration that also has accents. Some examples:

  • The Dodecanese (Greek: Δωδεκάνησα, Dodekánisa, meaning "twelve islands") are a group of Greek islands...
  • Kerkis or Kerketeus (Greek, Modern: Κέρκης, Kérkis; Ancient: Κερκετεύς, Kerketeús) is an extinct volcano...

--Delirium 22:14, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

I think it's a choice we have to make, not so much a rule of the English language. Kerkis is a good example, that's a 100% modern Greek name. The use of accents in Greek is like in Spanish (see e.g. León, León, Cádiz): no change of the vowel sound, just stress. However, Spanish has stress rules, only the irregular words get an accent. As you can see in the examples, the accents are shown in the titles there. I can live with both options (accents in title etc., or not), but we should be consistent in that. Markussep 07:40, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Move all to "X Prefecture"?

To keep things standard, shouldn't all of the articles be moved to an "X Prefecture" format? Right now, most are - but some (like East Attica) aren't. Since there's a sizable Greek community on Wikipedia, I didn't want to just go moving a bunch of articles around. What say you? --Golbez 01:57, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

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