Category talk:Post-Russian Empire states

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[edit] Old talk from Category talk:Post-Russian Revolution states

To search for:

  • Voisko Government of Ural Cossacks, Войсковое правительство Уральского казачества;
  • Ukraine Central Rada, Украинская Центральная Рада;
  • West Ukraine People's Republic, Западно-украинская народная республика (ЗУНР);
  • Kokand Autonomy, Кокандская автономия;
  • Moldavian People's Republic, Молдавская Народная Республика;
  • Alanordy Government, Правительство Аланорды (in Kazakhstan)
  • Siberian Independent State, Сибирское независимое государство;
  • Armenian Democratic Republic

wikipedened:

Mikkalai 18:13, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

As I already mentioned at Mikka's talk page, both Western Ukraine and Central Lithuania are as related to the Russian revolution as, say, Burkina Faso. Sure, both were at some time a part of the Russian Empire. However, neither their creation nor their decline was in any relation to the Bolshevik Russia - or the Russian Empire. If it wasn't for the Russian revolution, both of these would be equally independent and both would end up the very same way they did in the real life. Including them into the category would mean that we should as well include all other states formed after 1917, regardless of whether they were related to Russia in any way or not. Halibutt 03:45, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
As Mikka suggested on my talk page, a name change of this category would be a decent idea. If it is to include all states formed after the Russian revolution, be them related to Russia or not, then why not call it Category:States formed after 1917? Halibutt 08:05, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

I am afraid I have to disagree; as Mikka suggested on my talk page, and as it is written in the description of the category, it sepecifiaclly indicates relation to Russia, namely Russian Empire. October Revolution is the moment of the break-up of the empire, and it is historically important to trace what has been happening with peoples and territories of any empire: British, Spanish, Portugal. And people are ususllay interested in such things, see e.g. Lusitanic and Lusophone articles I came acoss recently.

On the other hand, the Category:States formed after 1917 is fairly meaningless, and people start asking why not Category:States formed after 1913 or Category:States formed after 1736, and so on?

As for Bolshevik Russia, this is a "straw man" argument. Obviously you ignored my advice to read this useful article, probably because it was given in an unfriendly manner. Once again: the main turning point is the colapse of the Imperial Russia, not the creation of Bolshevist Russia.

Now, about "If it wasn't for the Russian revolution, both of these would be equally independent". History (and wikipedia) doesn't know "if it were..." This is good for political science fiction. But even in fantasy world they would not be independent without previous break-up of the Empire, so the cause-effect relation is valid. mikka (t) 18:34, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category renaming

The category was renamed to a more neutral (and more cleaar) title. mikka (t) 20:26, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

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