Talk:Plasma-based weaponry

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I am not certain this article really requires a source. Afterall, it doesn't make any specific claims. Really, if it has a source, it is most likely some sort of science fictiion book. (unsigned comment by User:128.135.96.9)

It does make a claim that some basic research has been done ("Research in this feild of weaponry is in its infancy") Therefore it needs to be verifiable somehow. --BorgQueen 21:27, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure about that PEP paragraph. I was pretty sure that the system used microwaves, not plasma. Ryan Salisbury 05:06, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

When I wrote this article, I listed a Janes Defence Weekly article as a source for Boeing's research on the subject. I'll list some more definitive sources about this research but it is public information and is not a theory or personal opinion. The research and theories I have listed are all true and are being considered by current researchers of the topic. I'll try to validate the sources better though. This is not a fictional article. Also, I am not claiming anything untrue, I clearly stated in the article that many of these considered plans and concepts are still limited to the drawing board. Also, I have made corrections as to railguns creating plasma as a weapon. The information below was right, blooming would quickly occur and the plasma would dissapate harmlessly.

[edit] Plasma weapons are particle-ion weapons

It involves am ambient temperature plasma also known as a cold plasma. We are photographing such a weapon and putting the pictures online. Please see: http://www.noexoticwarfarezone.com for a discussion of the tech and the pictures.

What we are photographing comes from a psychotronic warfare cluster satellite system. The ground-based version is right here: [[1]. It is a real project being developed. The .pdf file is the contract pulled under FOIA requests.

My site is documenting weapons that are in space on satellites. The first particle-ion beam weapon was sent up in 1989 under the BEAR project. It is real, too. The references are on my site.

Carolyn Williams Palit javelinatales@speedexpress.net [2] [3] [4] (same tech used on 911 at the WTC -- it is called The Holographic Projector System and is discussed in the Air Force policy paper, "Air Force 2025." That has been taken off-line, but it can be found backed up here: [5] )

We are exposing a global scam -- the weapons are already up there and being used to torture Americans.

This supposed BEAR garbage is tinfoil hat nonsense. Wikipedia is not a propoganda machine.[6] If you want to promote your conspiracy theories, do so on the conspiracy theory page.

Plasma weaponry is a fantasy in itself. The ionized gas is so hot itself that the barrel would have melted, meaning that a huge bulk of metal would be needed. A very strong magnetic field must be also present to balance the charge of the ionized gas or the projectile cannot be contained. If you were talking about using plasma weaponry to torture people, my closest realisic guess would be burning them with blowtorches. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chengliangwu (talk • contribs).

[edit] Bits of plasma related information...

I don't know about the BEAR project but that bit in the article about magnetic fields turning a projectile into plasma is wrong. The fiction from air resistance and extreme heat from the Railgun are what converts the projectile into plasma. Problem is plasma weapons are near useless at range because the plasma just disperses harmlessly into the surrounding area. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble but unless your within something like 50 feet of your target all you're going to get is a pretty light show. That said, here are some real or soon to be real weapons that relate to or use plasma...

• High energy lasers do create plasma, both “ambient” from particles in the air and on contact with an object.
• Gauss rifle have problems with plasma and they have to use an extremely hard material to prevent plasma creation so that the projectile doesn't lose mass which is critical to inflicting maximum kinetic energy damage in a hard target. Note that gauss rifles are the ultimate unguided non-self-propelled projectile weapon, nothing can achieve a higher solid projectile muzzle velocity without a rocket assist (or of course subatomic particles).
• Certain heavy anti-armor rounds use plasma to “blow torch” through hard targets. The plasma effect is actually created by hallow core projectiles, when it hits the gas inside is super heated creating the plasma that cuts through steel plate like butter.
• Thermite based weapons, including “dragon” shotgun shells, could also be called plasma guns since they project a ball of ~5,000F plasma over a short distance. These rounds can be used in any gun but the barrel must be shortened such that the round leaves the barrel before igniting or else the barrel will melt, deform, and/or vaporize possibly causing the weapon to backfire or fully explode next time a standard round is fired.
• There are lots of other uses for thermite including delayed ignition grenade launchers, plasma grenades, claymore mines, and demo charges to either burn holes in nearly anything or cut through steel beams. The Russians have a real thing for incendiary weapons and have made heavy use of thermite over the years but the US has only recently (~80's) switched from white phosphorous to thermite has their primary choice in incendiary weapons.
• Flux compression generators (FCG) can create large amounts of plasma through induction heating. When deployed with a large volume of “packing” material these weapons can produce a sizable cloud of plasma. When deployed as an E-bomb they can produce plasma in near by conductive objects through electrical arcs and induction heating. FCG's are also a potential primary power source for any direct energy weapon that fires in short pulses or bursts or otherwise requires a very short pulse of incredibly high energy - in this fashion the FCG's become standard ammunition and can be used just like bullets, magazine or even belt fed. That should make those of you who believe “happiness is a belt fed weapon” happy to know the future holds extremely powerful belt fed direct energy weapons.
• Finally, particle projection cannon are your best hope for any kind of “plasma cannon”-like long range projectile that can do any significant damage. The concept is based on using a compact particle accelerator or other nuclear reactor to create a high density cohesive particle clouds that have the potential to cause “spontaneous” fission, fusion, and/or accelerated atomic decay on impact with any solid object. In theory they can be guided with high energy ultraviolet lasers, have a range of several miles, and could carry a TNT equivalent energy potential of anywhere from several pounds (no nuclear reaction) to in excess of a ton (causes fission/fusion). The critical issues are finding a particle source and a power supply, one possible method is accelerating several pounds of matter to the speed of light but even an FCG can't produce enough power but a series of them might be able to - a BattleMech's fusion reactor would be ideal. In a small arms rifle variant, this would probably look something like a “pulse fire” version of the “unlicensed nuclear accelerators” used in the movie Ghost Busters, backpack and all.

Hope this is helpful. I would have edited the article but I'm not an expert on the subject. If anyone feels that any of this information is acceptable in place of an expert opinion please feel free to move it over to the article or do what ever with it.

Last thought, I'll be happy when compact FCG powered gauss rifles and power armor are a reality.

-MegaBurn

I am not the most learned in the subject, but from what I have gathered about plasma is that the plasma must have a continual source of energy, I.e a cathode grid to accelerate the ionized particles and a source of energy with which to ionize the particles in the first place. Such a weapon would be cumbersome and inneffective. One, you would have to have some kind of energy source large enough to ionize the particles and half of that energy would have to be diverted to the process of accelerating the ions. If any plasma based weaponry exists, it would have to be a bunker weapon and/or an emplacement weapon. It would be uneffective and quite frankly it is far fetched to begin with. Frankly, I think someone's been playing a little too much Halo 2. Necronomicron 16:16, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Plasma projectiles are extremely hard to contain. Due to its charge, a very strong magnetic field should be present to contain this projectile, or else it will dissipate. How exactly are we going to create such a strong magnetic disturbance in Earth when its own charge is neutral? Presumably 10 feet tall magnets? Moreover, a bulk of metal is needed to contain this projectile as it can melt metal given its temperature. Moreover, the way used to kill people from plasma is still through burning. A rocket launcher is a definitely more realistic way to achieve this. I agree with Necronomicron here... someone's been playing too much Halo 2, or Doom for that matter (The BFG9000 legacy). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BorgQueen (talk • contribs).

Plasma projectiles are hard to contain, no doubt, but there are efficient ways of creating a barrel that can direct the blast without destroying itself in the process. Much of the technology would be borrowed from fusion reactor design, with a toroidal barrel that uses magnets to contain the plasma and prevent it from physically coming in contact with the barrel. The plasma would radiate heat, yes, but there are many materials out there that can withstand multiple thousands of degrees kelvin (tungsten has a melting point of approximately 3700K). With no direct conduction of heat, it would be relatively easy to design an alloy that could withstand the temperatures required to fire a small amount of plasma, especially seeing as there are already materials that can be within constant line of sight of a multi-million degree plasma and don't melt. Now, keeping that plasma from blooming as it left the barrel would be a real chore and it's likely that it's not possible. Adam Martinez 14:13, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plasma Weapon Concepts.

The concepts going around about how to make plasma weapons seem possible, but not likely; you would not load a bunch of high-pressured bits of the sun (so to speak)into a small compressed, magnetized, metal canister. It would melt the entire gun once you got it in there; unless you equalized the temperature, but that would defeat the purpose of the weapon.
 Another concept is to fire from inside the gun, out a barrel, and at a target about fifteen feet away. The thing with this one is; how would you keep the gun from melting let alone yourself, there is a problem on how you might fire a bit of plasma, and that it would dissipate after it gained some distance.
 My concept is that you would not store the plasma or generate it inside of the weapon. Remember in Halo (1 and 2) how the Plasma Rifle did not have a barrel, or a plasma meter? Well, my idea is that you would generate the plasma outside the front of the weapon. It would have a barrel, but a very small one. Perfectly in sync, it would super electro-magnetize a particle about the size of fifty water molecules and fire it through the barrel into the collection of super heated plasma and the large magnetic field (about half a foot in diameter) would pull the plasma away from the source and towards the desired target. The electro-magnetic field would also keep the plasma together for extended distances, and hopefully contain and sustain the temperature. It might also help sustain the plasma by pulling other particles (such as the ones in the air) towards and into the ball of plasma, then those particles will be heated too, in theory at least. Plus, you would need a high-powered, micro sized fusion generator in order to power the thing.
 The problems I find with my concept are: How would it charge a particle with a electro-magnetic field that big? How would I fire it off? What would I use to super heat the particles in front of the gun? And how would I do it in the same amount of time of that in Halo, Half-Life, Quake, Doom, etc.? Well, I hope to hear more ideas. Send them to me at jonmdl@hotmail.com, Thanks.