Talk:Pit bull

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Older discussion here: Talk:Pit bull/archive1 Talk:Pit bull/archive2

Contents 1 CAPITAL LETTERS 2 Neutrality/NPOV issues 3 Removed how to avoid attack paragraph in Overview 4 Overview deleted

[edit] CAPITAL LETTERS

Please don't use capital letters to make your comment look more important. Eventually everyone will be using them and the whole thing will get out of hand and be more difficult to read.

[edit] Neutrality/NPOV issues

While I agree that pit bulls get negative press and wholly support education on the positive aspects of this breed, I don't think that this article is unbiased enough to be quoted as "fact" to those doing research to benefit pit bull owners. The article appears to spend too much time pointing out the debate and the positive aspects, that encyclopedia based facts are lacking.

A proper history, that includes the true negative nature of the dog's breeding, statistics on temperment v/s other dogs, bite/fatality statistics (available from the CDC), and only external links to the debate would help clean up this article and provide a more neutral point of view. Possibly even creating a second article devoted to the legislative ban of dog breeds would help. Reducing the information provided may also be the answer, because the simpler the statement, the closer it is to the truth.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.0.148.134 (talk)

Breed specific bite statistics have been hard to locate. Fatality statistics breed-specific are available and cited, but bite has been difficult. Gigs 15:37, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

this article is not anywhere close to neutral. there's a fallacy of the "golden mean" at play here. the idea that both point of views represented means it's neutral. that's not true. by that logic a balanced article about the holocaust would include the argument that the jews needed to die to purify europe. that's an extreme example of course. but look at the point i'm making. i'm going to look at this article over the next few weeks and try to bring it around.

Youdontsmellbad 08:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Dog bite and fatality statistiics are inherently going to be skewed when you take the fact that many breeds that are not remotely related to pit bulls are called that in the media and by proponents of BSL. Presa Canario is one the furthest breeds from a pit bull yeat it is constantly called one whenever they attack someone. As for breed determination in bite statistics it is almost completely left up to the victim. How many people that don't own a pitbull could identify one correctly? most people just think that any wide chest dog with a large head is a pit bull and dont properly undersatand the breed to begin with. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ? (talk • contribs).

The "Safety, Legal Issues and Controversy" section is particularly awful. A sampling of the problems:

Although often cited, CDC statistics are completely inaccurate and skewed, and would not be considered as a scientific statistical survey in court due to the fact that the breeds of nearly 89-90 dogs in the study were not known.

According to who, the wikipedia editor? This needs a source.

The CDC has *admitted* this flaw, and has cautioned against reliance on the study.

Again, a source is needed.

Unfortunately, others studies used the CDC study as a basis for their own studies, so that only adds insult to injury.

Unencylopedic writing & unsourced. Which studies?

Mixed breed dogs may or may not display specific physical breed characteristics, and assertions on determing the dog's breed are usually limited to visual observations by laypersons.

Weasel words & unsourced.

While some people contend that pit bulls are likely to cause fatalities when they do attack, claiming it might be their jaws or clamping on to a victim, it needs to be known that this is a theory, and it is not a scientific one, nor has it been shown to be true in any verified study.

A non-scientific theory? Why even use the word "theory" then? What qualifies as a "verified" study?

What is undisputed is that ANY untrained, unsocialized dog can be dangerous, particularly when the dog is large in size, but even small dogs can kill. A Labrador dog actually severed the head of a female child, and a doxie dog chewed off the legs of a baby

Pedantic, unencyclopedic, unsourced, and anecdotal.

What the average layperson doesn't know, is that PETA has actually killed 90% of the pets they took in last year (2005) while holding themselves out as animal "savers"............

Terrible writing, unsourced, POV.

There are more examples, but I'm getting tired of quoting. This section needs a complete rewrite.

[edit] Removed how to avoid attack paragraph in Overview

because it is original research. Frankly, following anonymous advice on defusing a dangerous situation is foolish as well. The paragraph should not be reinserted without a source, ideally one from an expert dog handler. hateless 20:40, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Firstly, you will note that it is not 'how to avoid an attack', but how to defend against one once it has occurred. It has been modified, and a disclaimer has been added. I have personally used the technique with success. 'Expert dog handlers' (read: professional) have liability issues to worry about, so probably would be reluctant to give advice at all. Simply consider that if your child is attacked by a Pit Bull, you probably won't have the presence of mind to effectively combat it unless you are already familiar with the techniques. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mysteredia (talk • contribs).

If this is your advice, then this is something you need to publish in your own name, not under an anonymous source like Wikipedia. If this is your own original work, it violates Wikipedia's prohibition on original research because you personally are the primary source for this material. Apologies for calling the passage a "how to avoid" instead of "how to handle", however, the problem is it's still a how-to, and is also prohibited by policy outlined under WP:NOT#IINFO (instruction manuals). Since a mere disclaimer does not satisfy any of these provisions, I'm going to insist it be removed again unless you'd like to argue that this passage is permitted within WP's policies. hateless 23:40, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Mysteredia, I agree with your sentiments regarding pit bulls, but I also agree with Hateless and the anonymous contributer that removed part or all of your how-to. This isn't proper material for an encyclopedia. If a particular weakness does exist uniquely in the pit-bull, then that could be mentioned. If this is just a method to subdue an agressive dog, it has no place here. I reverted before I removed your how-to because the last person had added other pro-pit bias when they took your passage out. Gigs 16:18, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Overview deleted

In attempt to stabalize the neutrality of the article, I have deleted the poor overview. I don't know much about the dog, so I would rather leave it up to someone who is willing to write an overview that is neither supportive or rejective of the dog breed. The problem with the overview was... basicly.. it was too oppinionated.