Talk:Pilot (Smallville episode)

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Pilot (Smallville episode) is part of WikiProject List of Television Episodes, which aims to improve, standardize, and guide episode lists on Wikipedia.

Looking to help? Check out the to-do list: If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project. edit - history - watch - purge General Tasks: Put {{WikiProject LOE}} at the top of all talk pages associated with this topic Get more participants and more input on preferred formatting Apply the project recommendations on lists not formatted adequately. Make sure all TV screenshot images have proper fair use licensing tags and fair use rationale statements made. Evaluate Category:Lists of television series episodes and sub-categories, come up with guidelines to help editors choose correct ones, possibly create, merge, etc others. Discuss at WT:LOE#Categories. Discuss updates and changes to the general style guidelines on the /structure talk page. Propose guidelines for when to have embedded article lists or split articles, etc. Lists to create: Articles to reformat: List of Batman Beyond episodes List of Cowboy Bebop episodes List of Mission Hill episodes List of Mystery Science Theater 3000 episodes List of The Powerpuff Girls episodes List of The X-Files episodes Articles with incomplete content: List of Andromeda episodes List of The Angry Beavers episodes List of Batman Beyond episodes List of Boston Legal episodes List of Chicago Hope episodes List of Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers episodes List of Darkroom episodes List of Dinosaurs episodes List of Edgemont episodes List of Even Stevens episodes List of Fantastic Voyage episodes List of Frasier episodes List of I Love Lucy episodes List of Invasion episodes List of King of Queens episodes List of LEXX episodes List of Matlock episodes List of The Powerpuff Girls episodes List of Tales from the Darkside episodes List of Third Watch episodes List of Undergrads episodes List of Voyagers! episodes Current Collaboration: List of The X-Files episodes

Contents 1 Template 2 WP:RS and two of the external links 3 References for "Plot" section? 4 Quotes?

[edit] Template

We should make format this page how we want all the episodes formatted and use it as a template. - Peregrinefisher 19:14, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:RS and two of the external links

It looks like both TVRage.Com and tv.com (CNET Networks, Inc.) allow any registered user to edit their information. This would make them unreliable for factual information, although you could cite the opinions expressed on them. (Of course, keeping them as external links, not references, is not a problem.) Armedblowfish (talk|mail|contribs) 02:54, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Good to know. Some proponent of tvrage (he talks about it on his userpage) added those links. I kinda wish he hadn't because wikipedia is not a link farm, but it's borderline so I haven't removed them. The only info I've taken from tv.com is the production numbers for season 2, I hope this is OK. I figured it's common knowledge and not owned by them. If not I can take it out. What do people think? - Peregrinefisher 02:59, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing those references. I'm going to use it as a template when I get a chance. - Peregrinefisher 03:00, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References for "Plot" section?

In response to your message on my talk page, I don't think this episode article is very well-referenced at this time. There don't appear to be any references for the longest section of the article - the "Plot" section, nor any non-inline references. The external links are not considered to be sources. If you used one or more of them as a source, put it/them in the References section. If you used the original episode as a source, cite that as a reference. (Note that certain uses of primary sources constitute original research.) It doesn't need to be perfect or FA quality, just start by saying where you got the information from. If it's an unreliable source or something, other editors can help point that out, and maybe help find a better source, but no evaluation of the source can be made if none is cited. If the citation templates are daunting, then just do it by hand and let other editors format it. (That said, the more bibliographical information you can provide, the better.) It's easier to reference things as you write them rather than afterwards, so I encourage you not to rush in creating individual episode articles. (Gradual expansion of season articles until they each reached 40-60 kb of well-referenced material would help, but this does not seem to be your plan, perhaps because of organisational issues.) Best of luck, Armedblowfish (talk|mail|contribs) 03:29, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I knew that external links didn't count as the same thing as references, but imdb.com and tv.com are where I got the writers and directors. What's a good way to acknowledge that? I haven't seen numbers/links on that kind of info in other tv pages. I guess you just say something at the bottom? The quotes are kind of strange too. I'm not sure if citing imdb.com is better than citing nothing. Thanks, Peregrinefisher 04:07, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, a lot of media pages are poorly referenced, which isn't unique to media pages. (Have you ever tried hitting Random article a bunch of times? There are a lot of completely unreferenced articles, which is why I do count external links as references in AfDs.) I don't see a problem with an inline reference to IMDB in the info box, but if it bothers you aesthetically, you could just include put IMDB after a bullet in the references section (non-inline). But the main question is, where did you get the plot info? Armedblowfish (talk|mail|contribs) 16:11, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

For Pilot (Smallville episode) i just copied from Smallville (season 1) (pre August 27th version). I wrote the summaries myself for episodes 2,3,4 and 5 of season 1 from memory, starting with one paragraph from the season page. See Metamorphosis (Smallville episode) (current and pre August 28 for before and after) for an example. It's weird because you can't site a user. There are websites with plot summaries (tv.com) but they are user written too. It's verifiable because you can watch the episode, but it would be nice to have something to click on to check it. - Peregrinefisher 18:48, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Now that I think about it, having tv.com in the external links is a way to check on the plots accuracy. It's not definitive, but it helps. Maybe just the external link is enough, becuase I didn't copy their write up so it probably shouldn't be an inline. p.s. Do you know how to link to old version of pages? - Peregrinefisher 18:51, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Why CNET instead of tv.com? - Peregrinefisher 19:53, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, for episodes 2-5 I cited the episodes with {{cite visual}} for the plot section. (You watched them on TV, didn't you? If not, the medium field needs to be corrected.) I wouldn't reccomend using tv.com as a reference, since it fails WP:RS, but if you used it, then citing it is the honest thing to do until you find a better source. (You don't have to copy it to use it - a source is just where you got the information from. Copying it might constitute copyright violation.) I said CNET Networks, Inc. was the publisher because, if you look at the bottom of the page, that is the copyright owner. If you mean linking to old version of wikipedia pages, go to the history and click on the date of the version you want. Then copy the URL, and link to it as you would an external link. Armedblowfish (talk|mail|contribs) 00:39, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quotes?

The quote here by Martha doesn't really follow the consistency of the other episodes. Normally it says something that would appear as:
Martha: We didn't find him. He found us.
But it currently says "'We didn't find him. He found us.' - Martha Kent".