Talk:Peter Costello

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ʔI wrote the version of this article with the expression "radical Christian". I meant by this that he was a Christian who was also a social radical (a common species in the 1970s), not that he was a theological radical or fundamentalist. So far as I know his Christianity has always been mainstream. Adam 03:33, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

yes. that's why i was reverting. Xtra 07:32, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] dollar sweets role

From memory PC did not actually represent the company legally but was merely a junior. The actual representation was by a senior QC(whose name escapes me). Please provide evidence to disabuse me, otherwise will redit the page to display this fact. TransylvanianTwist 04:16, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Costello played a large part in putting the case together, but it was argued by Alan Goldberg, now Justice Goldberg. (from Shaun Carney's biography of Costello). (that does not mean that he did not represent them) Xtra 06:51, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Its just that at the moment the text reads as though PC was responsible, intellectually and actually, for the prosecution which as I thought, was not true. The text should reflect this. TransylvanianTwist 07:01, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

- PC was junior counsel and Michael Kroger was the solicitor. Costello and Kroger were the architects of the Dollar Sweets strategy and did have intellectual responsibility. "Junior counsel" doesn't mean you make the coffee, you know.

[edit] income redistribution

From what I have read over the past two decades the income distribution has only, and relentlessly, widened. Perhaps someone can provide evidence to contrary ( perhaps some census data?). Otherwise the text cannot stand as is. TransylvanianTwist 03:34, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

- Please see my comments below for contrary evidence from the ABS.

[edit] Photo

why is there no photo for this article? This wikipedia mirror has one, so why doesn't the original page? im confused. THE KING 12:12, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

There was a photo, but it was deleted. Xtra 13:12, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cancer??

There was a brief mention in Saturday's Age about Costello having announced he has cancer. But I've been unable to find any other references to this. I assume this was the journo having a bit of a wank - or maybe I misread it. Can anybody shed any light? JackofOz 13:28, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Matt Price's column in the Oz (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17123066%255E12854,00.html) may be the one you're thinking of, but like you I can't find anything other than a throwaway line. I'm going to contact Mr. Price and see what the story really was.--Robert Merkel 04:36, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Doh! The Deputy PM is Mark Vaile, not Peter Costello, who had a melanoma removed from his back last week [1]. --Robert Merkel 04:50, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
That must be it. The report definitely referred to "Peter Costello", not "the Deputy PM", so no thanks to the journo for confusing the Deputy PM with the Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party. Cheers JackofOz 10:50, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] POV

why has:

  • The part about Labor debt been removed
  • there been numerous unsourced changes to say the opposite from what has been always there
  • Why is there now a value judgement that he has had an easy run when during his term there were numerous international economic crises.

I think this is not neutral and should be reverted back. Xtra 07:25, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

has been always there - well actually has been there from August 2005 when the comments were originally changed with an edit summary of ...for evidence against this, and supporting my claim, email me. I didn't intend to remove the quoting of debt but the way the whole paragraph was presented was POV. I'm politically neutral but I know arse kissing when I see it. Garglebutt / (talk) 21:13, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Anti-Gay Comments

Why were these removed? I have put them back. They are verified with a link, no need to edit unless one has a POV against the truth. Lefty on campus 06:00, 28 February 2006 (UTC) --

The difference between the original pro gay article and the twisted, heavily POV addition to this article is verging on vandalism. Garglebutt / (talk) 04:56, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

-It's vandalism to cite a pro-gay article? No wonder this site has a reputation. Lefty on campus 06:00, 28 February 2006 (UTC) --

The statement by Costello is factual-and undeniably controversial. Why cant it be left in?TransylvanianTwist 05:02, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

The original addition by User talk:203.87.64.214 was:
In 2006, Peter Costello angered Gay Rights groups by insisting that "gays should be satisfied they are no longer imprisoned for being gay." That this decriminalisation of homosexuality is the only right they should be entitled to and would not support gay marriage or civil unions.
which is rather more POV than the revised direct quote attributed to Costello:
"I think we do recognize the rights of gay and lesbian people in Australia: We do not criminalize [their] conduct or behavior."
I still think this needs more work if it is included as Costello was talking in reference to current government policy regarding the legal definition of marriage. If the quote is true it was probably ill considered words but I'm not even sure it is noteworthy for this article. Garglebutt / (talk) 05:11, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
And the original article had a fullstop after Australia rather than a colon, which joins the statements and changes the context somewhat. Garglebutt / (talk) 05:12, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
I'll admit my first attempt may have been skewed, but I've added another link (from an Australian newspaper which verfies the quote (and makes the same interpretation)). I do believe it is important to include on this page as Costello is in the running to be Australia's next PM and views on social issues will play a significant role. One should add his pro-abortion-pill policy to in all fairness, too. Lefty on campus 06:00, 28 February 2006 (UTC) --
I think it's best to leave it with the full stop as quoted my the newspaper, changing that would be changing what was reported as FACT. 'They were not separate statements' so it would be innacurate and NPOV to position it as such. Lefty on campus 06:00, 28 February 2006 (UTC) --
think it's best to leave it with the full stop as quoted my the newspaper, changing that would be changing what was reported as FACT. 'They were not separate statements' so it would be innacurate and NPOV to position it as such. Lefty on campus 06:00, 28 February 2006 (UTC) --
Thankyou. Satisfied. Lefty on campus 06:01, 28 February 2006 (UTC) --

I have copyedited the latest addition to provide more background. I agree they were inappropriate remarks but the article needs to report the facts not our interpretation or personal views. The fact you vandalised my user page with filth doesn't speak well for your attitude to those who don't 100% agree with you but I accept that this is particularly contentious to some. Garglebutt / (talk) 05:33, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Struck out incorrect statement. Vandalism was from another IP address. Even when you edit anonymously, it helps a lot if you sign your posts with ~~~~ Garglebutt / (talk) 05:40, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Apologies, I don't always stay logged in and never notice, I'm using a Beta Firefox version it's buggy, but gets the job done! No, that wasn't me vandalising, unless you count my POV interpretation of the article! Try WhoIS to locate the IP. Will Sign other comments, too. Lefty on campus 06:00, 28 February 2006 (UTC) --
I'm using Deer Park alpha 2 (the next Firefox) and it hasn't been too bad. Garglebutt / (talk) 06:18, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

The quote 'angered gay rights campaigners during a lecture...' though true is very limited (and prob. weaselly worded). Im neither 'gay' nor a 'rights campaigner' but I find PC's words and attitude offensive. So will change text to 'many Australians' OK? TransylvanianTwist 05:57, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] General Comments

- Costello was never a member of the ALP, youth wing or otherwise. He associated with various ALP Right and Liberals on campus (as they had more in common with each other than the Maoists running AUS), but never signed up to the Labor Party.

- To the extent that the Keating Govt had reduced economic credibility in the lead up to the '96 election, Costello probably deserves some credit. His 'job' on Minister Ros Kelly over the SportsRorts affair claimed her scalp.

- Re: claim of widening gaps between rich and poor, what is the source? There is ABS evidence to the contrary: http://www.cis.org.au/Exechigh/Eh2002/EH9101.htm

- "Whether this was due to luck or good management..."? Come on. A *decade* of luck? There is no justification for this backhander and it should be removed.

- The line about Costello's support for the republic and "It may be coincidental that at the time this policy was believed to be more popular" is another cheap shot with no basis and should be deleted. Costello has never stated any other position, was a supporter of the republic at the ConCon when much of his own party were backing Howard's line.

- Re: Costello not having his political mettle tested - what about the GST and its implementation? Biggest tax reform in Australia's history, mother of all scare campaigns, practically every price in the country changing on one day?

- I'm not his biggest fan, but this article seems to have enough digs and slights in it to make it unfair to the subject, IMHO.

Yarraside 12:43, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Membership of Young Labor

I don't edit articles on Australian politicians any more, but I would like to know why the reference to Costello's membership of Young Labor in the 1970s has been deleted. It is a well-known fact which he has not denied, it was refered to in Hansard by a Liberal member recently, and not denied, it is proved by the photo in the article, and it is clearly relevant to his biography. Adam 09:14, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

As far as I have read, Costello never joined the Labor Party - either senior or junior branches. His only connection was that at university he campaigned for and was elected with an organisation affiliated loosely with the Labor Party. Xtra 05:17, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

If I was a Christian Student and I wanted to run for President of Monash Union and the only way I could would be to run with a political group, and that group ran with me and put my picture on their group photo does not make me a member of their group. Xtra 05:42, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I will ask some of the many people I know who were around at that time. Adam 05:45, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

"Michael Kroger: He was never a Labor Party member and never a supporter of the Labor Party although Michael Danby and some others are still trying to find membership records alleging he joined somewhere. Well good luck to them. They've been doing that for the last 20 years." [2] Snottygobble 05:47, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Links:
Radio National
Peter Costello: from campus to caucus
Peter Costello: The New Liberal
Rise and Rise of Costello
None of these indicate him being a Labor member, moreso showing him leading a crusade against communist-dominated student organisations. michael talk 05:48, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Are there any objections to myself removing text that states him being either involved with, or a member of, Labor organisations? michael talk 05:57, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I think it might warrant some mention of his involvement in student politics, but having read some of the sources cited above, I'd have no objection whatsoever to that being removed. Rebecca 06:38, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

No-one has claimed he was an ALP member. He may or may not have been a member of Young Labor or the Labor student group at Monash. But it is indisputable that he was a Labor supporter at that time, as is clearly shown by the photo. Kroger is hardly a reliable commentator on such subjects. Adam 06:40, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

So do I. He's got a very interesting history there. michael talk 06:41, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Agreed Kroger is not a reliable source for the assertion that Costello has never been a Labor Party member. It seems to me though that he is a most excellent source for the assertion that whether Costello has ever been a Labor party member remains a matter of some dispute. Snottygobble 11:41, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

No-one has claimed he was an ALP member. Please pay attention. Adam 12:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Right. Sorry. Snottygobble 12:57, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

The photo and accompanying text included in the image uploaded to the article shows that Costello was not just a member of, but an officebearer in, the Social Democratic Students Association of Voctoria, which was an affiliate of Australian Young Labor (Victorian Branch). He has never denied this fact, to which all the other people in the photo (among many others) can testify. I really don't see how the veracity of this can be challenged. I will change the text so that it more precisely reflects these facts. Adam 00:51, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Oops, no I won't, because I don't edit articles on Australian politicians any more. Someone else should do so. Adam 01:00, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Allegations of Bias

This article has been flagged by news.com.au along with others, Liberals hit back at Wikipedia 'dirt' file as possibly biased. Just thought I'd give a heads up. Iorek85 00:19, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

The person supposedly involved has denied such claims, see [3], also you can see above he is sticking to his policy against editing articles on Australian politicions directly Nil Einne 05:51, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

It's quite a while since I edited this article. Any bias in it now is the work of others. The curious thing about that article is that, despite the headline, no actual Liberals are quoted, as "hitting back" or anything else. Adam 06:02, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Just ignore it, news.com.au should be the last people reporting bias. (Truth 06 09:34, 4 October 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Speculation

The section headed "For as long as the party wants Howard, or two terms in office?" is mostly speculation and should be deleted. Adam 09:10, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Rewrote. Still a tiny amount of speculation (that he looks set to remain Treasurer until the next election at this stage), but I doubt anybody could object to that. --Robert Merkel 09:53, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] comments on muslims and islamic countries

His criticism of extremist muslims and islamic countries who do not have seperation of church and state should be added, no? (Truth 06 09:32, 4 October 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Pro-choice policy and support of the removal of Health Ministers veto

Peter Costello's pro-choice policy and his support for the removal of the Health Minister's veto over a medical drug has played a big part of his career of late and is something not included in this article. This being a big issue in polotics warrents a paragraph on the subject. Jarryd Moore 03:02, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

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