User talk:Pereza

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Welcome!

Hello, Pereza, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Wikipedia Boot Camp, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on your user talk page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions.

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If you want to tell me something or if you just want to say hi, leave your message under the Talk Section of | My Talk Page

Ω Anonymous anonymous Ψ: ''Have A Nice Day'' 23:10, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

		The Original Barnstar
		I award you this for all your kick-ass work on martial-arts related articles! Andeh 13:51, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Theory and Technique

I'm not so sure that listing a book's contents (or even listing a book without reference to it's significance) is appropriate content for wikipedia, perhaps you should reconsider the content of this article. Senordingdong 21:52, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

See The Canon Of Judo to see where I'm headed on this article. To me, it's primarily a "Judo List", just like List of Kodokan Judo techniques or Lists of Danzan Ryu. If you take out the description of each technique in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Theory and Technique, there is only 30 pages of actual text. As for the significance of a book published in 2001 :-?? A search of www.amazon.com and www.bn.com shows it to be the earliest book on BJJ available, at least at those sites. Try to create a BJJ list of techniques, you'll run into the problem I ran into, the reason I then did Kodokan first, and how I may try to integrate everything toguether. If there's anything else you want to say about the book, go ahead. Maybe I should tack on "stub"?

[edit] Disputed fair use images

I am writing to dispute the fair use rationale that you have provided for a lot of martial arts related images that you have uploaded, taken from one or more copyrighted films.

Fair use covers only the use of the images for identification and critical analysis of the film itself, not using them to demonstrate martial arts techniques. This might include at most one or two images in an article about the film itself, if it is notable enough to warrant one. I think the places where this can be most clearly seen is in Wikipedia:Fair Use#Counterexamples, as well as in the text of the {{Film-screenshot}} template that you have added to them.

This notice relates to the images listed below. You will notice that I have already tagged them as disputed fair use on the description pages, although in one case the image had already been tagged by another user. [1]

Please note that under the Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion, section I7 (images and media, rule 7):

Media that fail any part of the fair use criteria and were uploaded after 13 July 2006 may be deleted forty-eight hours after notification of the uploader.

and all these media were uploaded after 13 July 2006 (the earliest was on 8 August 2006). This therefore gives you 48 hours from date of this message until the images may be deleted by an administrator. If they can justifiably be retagged with a free license, then please could you do so within this time, providing appropriate justification on the image description pages.

Image:Gjb rg upa 58691-58933.gif
Image:Gjb rg low-kick-dodge-clinch-yoko-sutemi 37967-38115.gif
Image:Magj rg americana-defense 4660.gif
Image:Ej km ao-muke-gata-ude-hishigi 83006-83159.gif
Image:Ej km ashi-garami 83681-83845.gif
Image:Ej km ashi-garami-counter 85954-86036.gif
Image:Ej km ashi-guruma 69245-69395 69465-69511.gif
Image:Ej km ashi-hishigi 83846-83979.gif
Image:Ej km deashi-harai 65573-65607.gif
Image:Ej km elevator-sweep 41489-41578.gif
Image:Ej km gansan-seoi-otoshi 9761-9855.gif
Image:Ej km gyaku-juji-jime 77670-77741 78002-78187.gif
Image:Ej km hadaka-jime 78678-78751.gif
Image:Ej km hane-goshi 19585-19637.gif
Image:Ej km hane-makikomi 19915-19969.gif
Image:Ej km harai-goshi 17539-17615 17988-18055.gif
Image:Ej km harai-tsurikomi-ashi 70273-70330.gif
Image:Ej km hasami-jime 79819-80140.gif
Image:Ej km hikikomi-gaeshi 24084-24131.gif
Image:Ej km hishigi-hiza-gatame 82250-82345.gif
Image:Ej km hishigi-ude-gatame-ni 81470-81612.gif
Image:Ej km hishigi-ude-gatame-shi 82014-82084.gif
Image:Ej km hiza-guruma 68592-68707 68881-69000.gif
Image:Ej km hon-kesa-gatame-no-kaeshi 84316-84380.gif
Image:Ej km ippon-seoi-nage 8553-8619.gif
Image:Ej km kami-shiho-gatame 43611-43661.gif
Image:Ej km kata-gatame 43089-43242.gif
Image:Ej km kata-gatame-escape-reverse 84703-85019.gif
Image:Ej km kata-guruma 13080-13170.gif
Image:Ej km kata-guruma-ni 13766.gif
Image:Ej km kata-guruma-san 14282.gif
Image:Ej km kata-ha-jime 78873-78977.gif
Image:Ej km kata-te-jime 80355-80527.gif
Image:Ej km kesa-gatame 41874-41928.gif
Image:Ej km kibisu-gaeshi 12590-12669.gif
Image:Ej km koshi-guruma 17075-17213.gif
Image:Ej km kosoto-gake 66162-66223.gif
Image:Ej km kosoto-gari 66470-66586.gif
Image:Ej km kouchi-gari 66810-66932.gif
Image:Ej km kuzure-kami-shiho-gatame 43777-43907.gif
Image:Ej km kuzure-kesa-gatame 42137-42187.gif
Image:Ej km morote-gari 11313-11375.gif
Image:Ej km nami-juji-jime 77781-77827 78189-78327.gif
Image:Ej km near-knee-guard-pass 42024-42136.gif
Image:Ej km o-goshi 19146-19276.gif
Image:Ej km o-guruma 71698-71741.gif
Image:Ej km obi-otoshi 10871-10969.gif
Image:Ej km okuri-eri-jime 80143-80262.gif
Image:Ej km okuri-eri-jime-defense-ichi 85150-85262.gif
Image:Ej km okuri-eri-jime-defense-ni 85274-85370.gif
Image:Ej km okuriashi-harai 70561-70634.gif
Image:Ej km osoto-gari 67348-67461 67587-67660.gif
Image:Ej km osoto-guruma 68289-68356.gif
Image:Ej km osoto-otoshi 67935-67983.gif
Image:Ej km ouchi-gari 67121-67346.gif
Image:Ej km push sweep 41360-41438.gif
Image:Ej km ryo-te-jime 79010-79193.gif
Image:Ej km sankaku-gatame-escape 85718-85858.gif
Image:Ej km sasae-tsurikomi-ashi 69733-69812 70037-70090.gif
Image:Ej km seoi-nage 8260-8330.gif
Image:Ej km seoi-otoshi 9405-9446.gif
Image:Ej km seoinage san 8903-8970.gif
Image:Ej km simple-guard-pass 41785-41860.gif
Image:Ej km sode-guruma-jime 79195-79369.gif
Image:Ej km soto-makikomi 20236-20318.gif
Image:Ej km sukui-nage 10387-10462.gif
Image:Ej km sumi-gaeshi 23708-23753.gif
Image:Ej km sumi-otoshi 14696-14740.gif
Image:Ej km tachiai-ude-hishigi-ude-gatame 82469-82552.gif
Image:Ej km tai-otoshi 7328-7382 7605-7661.gif
Image:Ej km tama-guruma 15426-15465.gif
Image:Ej km tani-otoshi 75705-75744.gif
Image:Ej km tate-shiho-gatame 44929-44959 45150-45180 45393-45423.gif
Image:Ej km tawara-gaeshi 24469-24556.gif
Image:Ej km tawara-jime 79618-79817.gif
Image:Ej km te-guruma 11736-1179 12201-12258.gif
Image:Ej km tenkan 78645-78680.gif
Image:Ej km tobi-goshi 22010-22092.gif
Image:Ej km tomoe-nage 23341-23412.gif
Image:Ej km tsubame-gaeshi 70939-70988.gif
Image:Ej km tsukkomi-jime 79420-79608.gif
Image:Ej km tsurikomi-goshi 18297-18394 18787-18864.gif
Image:Ej km turtle-flip-over 43558-43613.gif
Image:Ej km turtle-stacking 44222-44549.gif
Image:Ej km uchi-makikomi 20604-20676.gif
Image:Ej km ude-gaeshi 74302-74350.gif
Image:Ej km ude-garami 80585-80645.gif
Image:Ej km ude-garami-ni 80823-80833.gif
Image:Ej km ude-garami-san 80925-80958.gif
Image:Ej km ude-garami-shi 81062-81111.gif
Image:Ej km ude-hishigi-juji-gatame 81169-81236.gif
Image:Ej km ude-hishigi-juji-gatame-escape-ichi 85431-85514.gif
Image:Ej km ude-hishigi-juji-gatame-escape-ni 85551-85667.gif
Image:Ej km ude-hishigi-kata-osae-tai-gatame 82865-83004.gif
Image:Ej km ude-hishigi-sankaku-gatame-ni 83355-83490.gif
Image:Ej km ude-hishigi-sankaku-gatame-san 83632.gif
Image:Ej km ude-hishigi-tai-gatame 82594-82716.gif
Image:Ej km ude-hishigi-tai-gatame-ni 82744-82837.gif
Image:Ej km ude-hishigi-ude-gatame-ichi 81288-81338.gif
Image:Ej km ude-hishigi-ude-gatame-san 81966.gif
Image:Ej km uki-goshi 16708-16798.gif
Image:Ej km uki-otoshi 6992-7054.gif
Image:Ej km uki-waza 74777-74835.gif
Image:Ej km ura-gatame 44619-44802.gif
Image:Ej km ura-juji-jime 78354-78424.gif
Image:Ej km ura-kesa-gatame 42403-42530.gif
Image:Ej km ura-nage 24791-24854 25220-25294.gif
Image:Ej km ushiro-goshi 21029-21098.gif
Image:Ej km ushiro-guruma 22521-22595.gif
Image:Ej km ushiro-kesa-gatame 42814-42897.gif
Image:Ej km utsuri-goshi 21489-21556.gif
Image:Ej km waki-gatame 93224-93293.gif
Image:Ej km yama-arashi 7951-8005.gif
Image:Ej km yoko-otoshi 76077-76150.gif
Image:Ej km yoko-shiho-gatame 44016-44096.gif
Image:Ej km yoko-sutemi 76510-76573.gif
Image:Ej km yoko-wakare 73485-73522 73850-73892.gif

Many thanks, Arbitrary username 08:41, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I think "for identification and critical commentary on the film and its contents" in {{Film-screenshot}} includes identification and critical commentary of the techniques covered by the film, its contents. BTW, we are talking about a freely available/dowloadable MP4 file providing content that is not easily replaceable. --Pereza 14:39, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

A couple comments about this.

Firstly, no it does have to be about the film. Have you looked at Wikipedia:Fair use? In particular, in the "Acceptable Use" section, images subsection, you'll see Film and television screen shots. For critical commentary and discussion of the cinema and television, and also the counterexamples section which I already linked to is full of examples showing how exactly the sort of use we have here does not come under Fair Use.
You referred to the "its contents" bit of "the film and its contents" in {{Film-screenshot}}. But it is not talking about "its contents" in isolation from the film itself, and this becomes obvious if you understand the tag in the context of the policy (which in turn will have been written with the ultimate aim of ensuring that users and the Wikimedia Foundation don't get successfully sued). With this in mind, let me try to explain with further examples of what "its contents" could and could not include. Suppose that you were writing an article about the film, and that (totally hypothetically) you had a quote from the IJF President endorsing or criticizing the demonstration of o-uchi-gari as contained in the film, which you wanted to include in the article. You might then under fair use be able to include alongside it the relevant screenshot from the film. You would be using it for critical commentary on the film and its contents. But you couldn't use it in a separate article on o-uchi-gari which wasn't really about the film at all.
You refer to the file as "freely available/downloadable", but I think all you actually mean by that is that it has been published on the web. The default status for material published on the web is that it is copyrighted. There is no legal freedom to copy and redistribute that content, even though you may download it and copying it is physically possible. If, on the other hand, the site where it was published included terms and conditions which licensed copying and redistribution under terms which are compatible with the license used on Wikipedia, e.g. public domain or GFDL, (and had the authority to do so), then we'd be in a position to retag the images and use them on that basis rather than relying on Fair Use. But I don't see anything that says this, and if it does then it's up to you, the uploader, to provide evidence of this.
You refer to "content which is not easily replaceable". I take your point on this, and you'll see in the Fair Use policy that the lack of a free equivalent is a necessary condition, but it isn't a sufficient condition.

Sorry to put a dampener on this because I see you've put a lot of work into splicing the film into sections to demonstrate the different techniques, but unfortunately we really can't just take whatever material we feel like from the web, use it however want on Wikipedia, and have it stand up in court. Regards,Arbitrary username 17:46, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

The pics are obvious fair use as I explain in Image_talk:Ej_km_morote-gari_11313-11375.gif, well based on the four pillars. The link to Wikipedia:Fair use is a lot better than a link to the the Library Of Congress, but can you be more specific? Your tag complains the articles are not about the film, and now you are saying it does not have to be about the film. To me, your verbosity seems more an exercise in arguing "Black is White". --Pereza 14:27, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I think I have said what I want to already, and will now leave the decision to whichever administrators choose to review CSD nominations (which I intend to make after the 48 hours elapses if the images are still tagged as fair use by then), or failing 'speedy' deletions then to the community consensus in an IFD debate. Arbitrary username 22:41, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't blame you for not saying more, since I'm not chasing arguments around. --Pereza 17:48, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I tagged these for speedy deletion, and you will see that an admin has agreed with me and deleted the images now. I seriously considered putting in their place links to the video on Google Video, with accompanying text telling people what time offset to look at for each technique, as in principle we can still link to copyrighted material. However, this is on the important condition that the site that we link to is not violating someone else's copyright (see WP:C#Linking to copyrighted works). In the case of the video as it appears on Google Video, I am not convinced of this. The last few frames of the video display the message "All rights reserved. Unauthorized copying, public performance and broadcasting of these DVD programs prohibited. QUEST" (and the preceding frames give a web address http://www.queststation.com/.) Also the video is sold commercially for US$50, not just the distribution costs. The Google Videos content has every appearance of being an unauthorized copy that someone has just ripped off a DVD, and I think that before we create any links to it we would need good reason to believe that it is properly authorized. Arbitrary username 10:10, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

No point arguing about fair use since power as spoken (regardless of my opinion of the logic). Before I uploaded the pics, I contacted judoinfo.com, and they seem to think the film's copyright is expired. I tried contacting Quest, queststation.com, which is a Japanese firm, and got no response.

Ooops, just noticed I misread "Firstly, no it does have to be about the film." I can be dislexic in speed reading. Sorry about that, you were not waffling.

Well, if material is actually out of copyright, then it can be uploaded as public domain, and the material is then usable at will without having to satisfy fair use criteria. But in this case, it appears to still be in copyright. Japan copyright law#Length of protection says that cinematograhic works are protected for 70 years, and this page says that it was filmed in 1948. Arbitrary username 22:38, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

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User talk:Pereza

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[edit] Barnstar

[edit] Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Theory and Technique

[edit] Disputed fair use images

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