Talk:Perth, Western Australia/Archive1

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Contents 1 Whiteman Park 2 Perth -> Perth, Scotland 3 Pronunciation 4 Avon Descent 5 Whitespace 6 Suburbs 7 Location and brief history 8 Transportation 9 Amenities 10 Perth and Water 11 Central Park 12 Dullsville 13 Perth beaches 14 Isolated City 15 Image:Perth-park.jpg 16 Education 17 Tourist Attractions 18 Keys to Perth City 19 Music 20 Forrest Place/Chase 21 Perth Music 22 Photo of Swan Bells 23 Advice on Caversham Photo??

[edit] Whiteman Park

Situated in picturesque bushland 25 minutes North East from the City Centre, it forms the western boundry of the Swan Valley wine region. The Park covers an area of more than 4200 hectares (over 10,000 acres) with nearly half of this classified as high value conservation bushland or wetland. The Park takes its name from Mr Lew Whiteman (1903-1994), a prominent local identity and enthusiastic collector of artifacts. His family settled in Guildford from England in the late 19th century and Lew acquired some land around Mussel Pool in the 1940s. This, and other land held by a variety of private owners, was purchased by the State Government in 1978 and combined to form Whiteman Park. The Park also protects the southern portion of the Gnangarra Water Mound - a large underground water source that supplies up to 40% of metropolitan Perth's drinking water. All native wildlife in the Park is protected and more than 100 bird species have been identified. Along with 32 Reptile, 7 Amphibian and 8 mammals. The Caversham Wildlife Park recently move into an area of park near the Village. There are also a number different collections of transport and machinary equipment as well as working historical Tram and Trail lines.

--User:Trentwpb - I Am concerned with the emphasis on primitive stereotypical Australian values, in reference to the kangaroo image here... I Also feel this way with the Northbridge tunnel, the vehicle entering the tunnel can easily be used as ammunition for any foolish minded sarcastic person, whom chooses to use this article in a argument against Perth..

extracted and edit from the Whiteman Park website

--Gnangarra 05:58, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

What about [www.cavershamwildlife.com.au Caversham Wildlife Park] which is ten times larger than Kings Park. I have a few animal photos from there I would upload for it... SeanMack 16:08, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

i'll include something to encompass Caversham wildlife park

How many of the other displays and facilities do we want to include. I'll put a link to the website Gnangarra 23:48, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Ive up dated this peice what do you think is there any other suggestion Gnangarra 04:35, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

ive put this in the article page Gnangarra 01:37, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

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What's with the "cranking surf" and the "sexual congress" references to Rottnest? Unless anyone has any objection within the next week, I'll be removing them, and hiving off most of the info on Rottnest to its own separate page - David Stewart

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Removed:

Perth also has many cinemas. The major cinema chains in Perth are 'Hoyts' and 'Greater Union', with complexes located throughout the city. Hoyts has a huge complex at the Westfield Carousel shopping centre in Cannington. Greater Union has a large complex located in the suburb of Innaloo. There are many other cinemas around Perth. To find session times and cinema locations, visit:

http://www.hoyts.com.au or http://www.greaterunion.com.au

Every two-bit town in the world has cinemas. It would perhaps be of particular note if Perth *didn't* have cinemas. --Robert Merkel

actually, I would say that comment on cinemas would be valid in this case for one reason - there are many places in Australia, and especially in WA that DON'T have cinemas because their population is too small for them to be commercially viable! But it doesn't need the hyperbole... KJ

I also toned down the hyperbole about Perth's tourist attractions. This isn't the WA Tourist Bureau.

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Aaaargh! somebody give me some feedback!!!! Somebody tell me what they think of the Perth page now, what it still needs etc etc... I can't do this alone. - Mark Ryan

You've done a good job. Congratulations. Now stop stressing so much about one article and go work on something else. -- Tim Starling 13:46 Apr 25, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Perth -> Perth, Scotland

The page Perth has recently been changed into a re-direct to Perth, Scotland. I think it should be changed back to a disambig page. I've started discussion of this on Talk:Perth, Scotland if anyone wants to comment. --Chuq 01:51, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

Before everyone heads here to add the pronunciation of this city's name as has happened on the Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and Australia articles, may I just say I don't think it is necessary on this article? I don't think it's possible to mispronounce "Perth". I have never heard anyone mispronounce it. - Mark 12:24, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I agree with you about Perth, I'm not even sure that Sydney needs it either, I've never heard "Sydney" mispronounced. I have heard Melbourne and Brisbane mispronounced, especially by Americans. --203.220.170.103 13:22, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

There was/still is a pronunciation battle on the Canberra page, because Australians can't pronounce properly.

I heard that old boss of the IOC call Sydney "sidda-nee", but that's not really a horrendous mispronunciation. - Mark 13:25, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Avon Descent

"Perth is also home to the annual Hopman Cup tennis tournament, the annual Avon Descent whitewater event, and the annual Rally Australia."

To be fair, the Avon Descent doesn't have anything to do with Perth at all. Unless anyone objects, I think I'll remove that bit. It probably belongs (right now) in Northam, since that is where the race starts -- Generica 03:45, Aug 18, 2004 (UTC)

Doesn't the race finish at the Garrat Road Bridge in Bayswater? - Mark 12:15, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Well I'll be... So it does. I guess I've only gone to the start and halfway mark, and that was quite a few years ago. I guess it should stand as is. -- Generica 01:07, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Whitespace

Is there any way to get rid of that whitespace in 'People'? It's caused by the map of Australia, I think, and moving it about didn't seem to help. It looks crappy, and we want this article, well, not to look crappy. God, I should really stop editing at 4 o'clock in the morning. Anyway, any ideas? Tolo 19:41, Jan 21, 2005 (UTC)

I have altered the image sizes and added another view which appears to have fixed this problem Gnangarra

[edit] Suburbs

I've rescued (copied and slightly wikified) the following from the sandbox. One of you locals may like to improve it and make it into a separate article linked from here.

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[edit] Location and brief history

A suburb of metropolitan Perth, approximately 11 kilometres southeast of the CBD. The name Ferndale originated from developers, who decided not to proceed with the local council's (City of Canning) choice of "Shearnstead". In 1965, the name change was approved. (Department of Land Information 2005).

[edit] Transportation

Ferndale is an established residential suburb, bounded by the major commercial area of Cannington to the east and the Canning River to the north. Major roads in the suburb include Ferndale Crescent, which runs like an inverted U-shape, Willcock Street, Grace Street and Bridgeway Avenue. The latter three are all in Ferndale's east. Transperth, which is Perth's public transport utility, runs two principal routes, 877 and 878 which serves Ferndale by connecting to Perth City and Cannington.

[edit] Amenities

Prominent features of the suburb also include Ferndale Reserve, a large sports ground; and the small Ferndale Shopping Centre, comprising of a deli, hair salon, fast food outlet, pharmacy and Chinese restaurant. There are two primary schools in the suburb, Ferndale Primary, located in west Ferndale; and Kinlock Primary in the east. Both are feeder schools to Lynwood Senior High School, the main secondary school of the surrounding suburbs. The Canning River Regional Park, located in Ferndale's north, is a popular route for cycling and walking as it is the parkland of the Canning River.

Raymond Loo

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Kind regards from across the Ditch. Robin Patterson 11:49, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It's already at Ferndale, Western Australia, minus a bit of wikification. -- Perey 19:03, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Perth and Water

I've heard claims that Perth will be out of water by 2015! This has been mentioned in a few places on the net, [[1]] being the best one I could find at a moment's notice, and recently in the NZ Herald. So, why isn't it even slightly mentioned here? Furius

Projections estimate that, on current water supplies, Perth will 'be out of water' in the not so distant future. Of course, investigations about increasing the water supply are being undertaken at the moment and I have no doubt that Perth will have sufficient supply into the concievable future.

When I look back over the page, there are no negative aspects of Perth mentioned - hence why the water issue is not mentioned here. It is a shame, I look forward, with Furius to see if a section is created soon. --Commander Keane 14:27, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've written the water stuff in to the Geography section - I'm not sure if there's a better place to put it. Feel free to move it around. - Mark 01:23, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Central Park

One edit has just demoted Central Park from 5th to 6th tallest building in Australia. Is there any good source on this? I don't know where the original, or corrected, figure comes from. I have no idea what the correct figure is. Googling, I find http://www.hampel.net.au/blog/archives/2003/09/08/australias-tallest/ which arguably lists it as 4th if you disregard spires. I'd suggest whatever the claim is in the article, its source be cited, otherwise the "fact" should be removed. --kjd 13:12, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Done. I've changed it to 4th highest, clarified that it is a matter of opinion really, and added a supporting external reference to Emporis (formerly Skyscrapers.com) which is the website I consult most often when it comes to skyscraper facts. - Mark 00:59, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dullsville

Ever since Lonely Planet Guide 2000 declared Perth one of the dullest cities on earth, and dubbed it "Dullsville", the word has become part of the city's psyche. Hardly a week goes by without some proposed project promising to rid Perth of its Dullsville tag. I think this article should cover the Dullsville situation. The tourist bureau wouldn't like it much, but this is an encyclopaedia not a travel brochure. Snottygobble 23:25, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Wow, someone should tell that to those who tinker with rottnest and other parts of some of the perth region entries - that read like the products of protege lonely planet stringers rather than any NPOV encyclopedia writers!vcxlor 09:00, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm sure it was in there at some stage; maybe an intervening edit has removed it. - Mark 00:44, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

In Saturday's West, I read the D-word in 3 articles/letters. Incredible. -- Ian ≡ talk 03:53, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Should be in there somewhere - its not POV at all, infact, IMO, its POV to leave it out, we should tell both sides.--Hamedog_Talk|^@ 13:27, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Perth beaches

Is this POV?

"While not unlike the beaches of the Gold Coast in Queensland, Perth has not yet experienced the same level of commercialisation and development, and hence degradation, that plagues other such naturally rich Australian urban environments."

What is this 'degredation' that follows development? --Commander Keane 16:00, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'll hazard a guess that whoever added that was talking about the high rises in the Gold Coast. - Mark 08:13, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

I've changed it to read the following:

"While not unlike the beach setting of the Gold Coast in Queensland, Perth has not experienced the same level of beachfront and riverfront development of other similarly naturally rich Australian urban environments."

I trust it is less POV. - Mark 08:21, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Isolated City

Can we discuss claims that Perth is in any way "the most isolated capital city"? Honolulu is much farther in absolute distance, travel time, and sense of space than is Perth. I'm removing this claim until someone can justify its inclusion. no id put with this.

isolated city further comments

Mark's qualified isolation edit should be supported. Whether it is literally does not matter as much as to whether people feel or believe that. If you go too far on this one, it is possible to split hairs over the issue to the point that the wiki talk entry reads like a war zone, and the actual article has nothing in it!  :)

Probably not here, but somewhere else there should be emphasis that as recently as the 1950's - people would take the ship to the east coast - as an alternative to either the train, or other means. Regular air travel out of perth did not really have big numbers until the Commonwealth games in the early 1960's. In the 1940's and 1950's the relative cost of 'getting out' of the place did limit some people's mobility for interstate travel - which reinforced the sense of isolation vcxlor 08:58, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Just a little point in vcxlor comment specific passenger rail services between perth and the Adelaide didn't commence until around 1968/1969.

Gnangarra 14:09, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

I fired up Google Earth and used its "measure" tool to measure the distance between Perth and Adelaide, and it seems Honolulu really is far more isolated than Perth. Perth is nonetheless quite isolated, so I felt some mention ought to be made of this. According to Google Earth, Perth is almost precisely 3000km from Jakarta, 2772km from Dili (East Timor), 3855km from Singapore, 2136km from Adelaide, 2726km from Melbourne, 3094km from Canberra, 3296km from Sydney and 3609km from Brisbane. Brisbane is only slightly closer to Perth than Antarctica. - Mark 10:01, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Perth-park.jpg

Umm, not wanting to offend anybody, but it's not the most flattering pic. Could we do better, or would we be better without it? -- Ian ≡ talk 03:50, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Removed as no-one commented -- Ian ≡ talk 04:45, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Education

Education in Western Australia consists of one year of pre-school, followed by seven years of primary school education, and five years of secondary education. The final two years of secondary education are not compulsory, and often students opt to substitute them for TAFE vocational education, or regular employment.The students that stay on in the final two years usually sit for the Tertiary Entrance Examination in order to be eligible to study at university.

This whole section here needs to be revisited / written, as from 1.1.2006 it will be compulsary for students to undertake yr11 studies. 1.1.2008? it will be complusary for students complete yr12. before they are able to leave school.

Gnangarra 14:21, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

• There is already a section in the Western Australia article on education. I suggest that's where it should be, not in Perth, Western Australia -- Ian ≡ talk 04:03, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

this paragraph was extracted from the actual page all i have dpne is point out that iformation though accurate today wont be accurate in 3 months

Gnangarra

I must be going mad. I'm sure when I wrote the above comment the other day there was a =Education= section in the WA article - but not now <shakes head>. Anyway, I'm moving the above para out of this (Perth) into that (WA) article. In Jan 2006 it can be rewritten to reflect the state of affairs at that time. -- Ian ≡ talk 04:37, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tourist Attractions

Why no mention of the Swan Valley Vineyards or Whiteman Park Complex

Gnangarra 03:45, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

• Good suggestion. -- Ian ≡ talk 04:03, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah - there's a very poor Swan Valley art that could actually be expanded and linked to features within the valleyvcxlor 05:22, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Keys to Perth City

Out of interest, I could only find four people that have received the "Keys" to Perth City:

• 2005: Barry Marshall, Robin Warren - Nobel Prize winners
• 2004: Dr Haruhisa Handa - Japanese philanthropist
• 1996: David Hicks - solo sailor

cheers Nachoman-au 06:14, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

believe Eagles were given them in 92

also wildcats same time period.

also believe that HMAS Perth was also given them.Gnangarra

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall Michael Jackson receiving a Key to the city back in the early 1980's, maybe in a ceremony outside the Entertainment Centre. I can't find any reference to this on the web, though... Does anyone else remember this? - Gobeirne 18:06, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

I rember this vaguely but dont remember him getting keys, he was here as part of a deal on some music brought from Robert Holmes a Court which required apperances on Telethon Gnangarra 04:14, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Music

I am intrigued by current edits on Music. Like the encyc entry has been written by someone born after 1987 or so :) . If the 'older parts' are edited out, anyone with any suggestions of how to acknowledge the fact that what is named is recent, current and potentially peripheral? Anyone any idea where 'Popular Music in Perth 1940's to 2000' might fit for our keen bold editors?vcxlor 02:58, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

• Hi Vcxlor. I removed some of those bits because they seemed a tad depressing, frankly, and I thought them a bit too specific for a city-level article. All music scenes change, and perhaps a "History of the Perth music scene"-type article may be an appropriate place for a discussion of that sort of thing. What do you think? - Gobeirne 03:11, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't think the bit about folk music is needed. I never knew about any folk music in Perth and think it should be moved to perhaps the above mentioned "History of the Perth music scene" if someone was to make one. I don't believe it has an impact internationally or even locally in the public consciousness, and doesn't represent Perth at all. I like Radiohead 05:42, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Forrest Place/Chase

As far as I know, Forrest Place is still Forrest Place, but it's the commercial development and walkways on the east side of the place (containing Myer) that is called Forrest Chase. - Gobeirne 22:37, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

That's correct. The post office is in Forrest Place. -- Ian ≡ talk 00:06, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Perth Music

Sorry folks I don't buy into this:

In fact, Perth's isolation (and, effectively, a lack of external influences) has resulted in it being that said that Perth is one of the strongest driving forces in modern music today. Without doubt, Perth produces some of the most innovative and dynamic music in the world.

Either it's attributable or it's opinion, this is opinion to me. I'll give it a while and if it's unchanged I think it should go. It's hyperbole without any backup or citations. Sorry... SeanMack 13:55, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

I totally agree, but glad someone else said it first. Having had historical context edited out I have to watch this stuff! Do we need a literal sandbox for hagiographies and generalities? Perth, musically is not much different from all other austraian cities, maybe we need a trawl of all other capital city articles to see how they cope with their own music! Even better, New Zealand cities... (hiya Gobeirne  :-) )vcxlor 14:31, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

I reverted the changes as soon as I saw them (before reading this). True, some damn good music comes from Perth! But the statements made are extremely POV. -- Chuq 22:15, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Maybe I'm being too pedantic but this Seattle comment is perhaps a "nation-wide" opinion as I doubt people overseas are as excited about Perth's music scene as JJJ might be.

I'd also suggest Perth being the home of The Triffids, Kim Salmon and Dave Faulkner to be more important on an international scale. It is also well documented that Perth's isolation was an influence on the Triffids.

But I'd then go on to say that I don't buy into the isolation argument. In these days of globalisation, a national youth radio station (JJJ) and cheaper airfares Perth is hardly isolated like it once was.

Indeed the bands mentioned in the Seattle comment borrow heavily from other influences (ok, this is my POV) and this to me is the ultimate argument to the isolation thing. RoyalDave 13:51, 30 December 2005

I think the seattle comment should go. It's uncited and (I think most people agree) untrue. Also, who are Project: Bad? Are they an electronic band like the previous two listed, and that's what I haven't heard of them? If they don't have a page on wikipedia, do they really deserve to be on this page? Hegar 06:25, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photo of Swan Bells

Anybody mind if I change the image for this section. I went on a nice day to get a sunny picture to fit in with the other pics on this page. Here's the pic I got.

Cheers SeanMack 12:37, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Very Nice picture definately change it with the current one Gnangarra 13:03, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Sean, I took the original and am happy to switch to yours - it's much better. Mine was done on a rainy August day - you can see the puddles on Barrack Street. Regards -- Ian ≡ talk 13:37, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Cheers Ian, I'd just realised it was your pic and was about to drop you a note. I'll swap it now before I get distracted... low attention span... thanks for the comments. SeanMack 13:50, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Advice on Caversham Photo??

I had mentioned at the top of the page to Gnangarra that I would add a pic for this place. Any thoughts on whether either of these are suitable? My instinct is the first one as it has the entrance building in the background which identifies this as caversham, however, it's a bit dark... If anyone ever wrote an article on the park I have pics for it.... Cheers SeanMack 14:31, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Sean I like the first, have you got any editing software. I tried increasing Brightness 10%and decreaseing contrast 15% It removed the darkness on the roo. I didnt replace suggest you have a play first Gnangarra 17:18, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Cheers for the comment Gnangarra, I lightened the dark tones in PS and re uploaded. Since there were no negative comments I'll stick it on the page. Feel free to remove if you don't think it's suitable. SeanMack 15:01, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

nice result Gnangarra