Talk:Perfect Dark

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Contents

[edit] Confusion

Right, I am very confused...it might just be the USA version but on the UK version there is no level called "Maian SOS". There is one called Area 51 Escape and that looks like the screenshot. Ideas??? elevenzeroonnechat / what i've done / email 20:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I haven't played the game in the while, but I think the 'Maian SOS' level is secret. M2K E 21:43, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, you have to complete all the other levels on Secret Agent. Soo 02:47, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Genitals

This: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Perfect_Dark&diff=30147482&oldid=30022757 Is a lie, surely? And in its current form it refers to 'testicles'. Razstar 12:32, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Red and Black

Why did people change the page back to read that Perfect Dark was "Red and Black" in Japan after I had corrected that? It wasn't! Go to its official site on Nintendo of Japan's homepage (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_npdj/index.html) and see for yourself. Of course, you have to be able to read Japanese katakana to fully understand, but if you can't, that is your own problem. Don't trust everything you read on IGN.

I mentioned that the game was going to be called "Red and Black" in Japan at one time (I don't know how to do underlines on this site). Is this okay?
I'm going to investigate the Red and Black issue and where it came from; presently, I'm suspecting that this was a wonky IGN translation error (and they have been known to make large mistakes). It might stem from the Japanese Perfect Dark advertising campaign and its use of a monochromatic, red-and-black motif. The Trashman 18:30, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Hmm.. a Google search for "パーフェクト・ダーク" "赤と黒" turned up 100 results. As far as I can discern, Nintendo wanted to call the game 赤と黒 (Aka to kuro; Red and Black) to begin with but eventually settled on a transliteration of "Perfect Dark" (in other words, LITERALLY the name "Perfect Dark" in Japanese katakana).

However, contrary to what IGN said, this was surely not a matter of the name "not translating well". Many, MANY games originally in a non-Japanese language keep their original titles intact when translated for a Japanese release (such as the Metroid Prime games, although the subtitle of Metroid Prime 2 was changed from "Echoes" to "Dark Echoes", which isn't much of a loss). Plus, English is being increasingly taught in Japanese schools to prepare students for the business world; I'm guessing that the average Tarou playing Perfect Dark in Japanese would have some understanding of what the name means.

I'll add the summary of this info, but since Perfect Dark originated in English, I'm placing the Japanese title info a little lower (Japanese games translated to English typically/should begin their Wikipedia entries with the English release name followed immediately by the Japanese title in parentheses). Whew! Hope you got all that. The Trashman 19:19, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merge..

I'm not sure that Cassandra de Vries deserves her own article. I would like to suggest it be merged into here. Wikibofh 04:26, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

Sounds good. It will need a lot of cutting though. LOTS of drivel and repetition. Perhaps a characters section should be written in this article? In fact, I'll start one now.--DooMDrat 05:19, September 2, 2005 (UTC)
I have created sections on Extraterrestrial Races, Organisations and Characters. I made the article on Cassandra a redirect to this one--DooMDrat 09:22, September 2, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks!--DooMDrat 08:47, September 3, 2005 (UTC)


[edit] About this

I would like to see some references on this paragraph, or else I think it should be removed

Ironically, although the game contains numerous glitches and oddities that enticed players to explore every inch of the game, and sometimes (as in the case of the cutscene model storage areas), gave a peek at the inner workings, some of the lead designers have on several occasions stated their annoyance at people using devices like the GameShark to hack the game, even for something so innocent as flying through a level.

64.251.182.80 04:33, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Check the last line here [1]: "Stop the beta nonsense. If he found anything 'in memory' then he was poking around with a Gameshark and should have parts of his stupid anatomy sliced off and cauterized by burning copies of the Bible.". Unfortunately, any further statements from Rare, on their official site, would be gone with any redesigns they did after being acquired by Microsoft. I removed the last part of the paragraph and added the reference to two parts of the section.--DooMDrat 08:11, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


[edit] BBFC 18

Does anyone know why the BBFC gave Perfect Dark an 18? It doesn't appear to make sense. TheDarkArchon 22:22, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

No clue. But here's an example (primarily on cheat settings): you can fire a volley of "sedative" crossbow bolts into a guy and he'll still live (albeit sprawled on the floor) as long as you don't fire anything else at him; in other words, you can torture him by filling him with arrows like a pincushion until kingdom come. British censors have been known to flinch at such things - an example being the Teenage Mutant Ninja Hero Turtles cartoon and the blocking out of ninja-type devices and concepts such as shuriken (throwing stars). The Trashman 18:40, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
To the above: agreed. Really, I think it was the combination of slightly increased violence over Goldeneye:
1) Fairly realistic blood (including 'spurts') - compared to none in GE
2) (pretty unrealistic) mutilation through explosions - compared to characters just being hurled about in GE
3) The fact that the corpses didn't disappear as they did in GE - enabling after-death mutilation, and continued torture to incapacitated foes, as mentioned above. Razstar 13:11, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
In a nutshell the main reason would be that it was more gory than GE but GE was rated 15. One step higher is was 18. Elevenzeroonnechat / what i've done / email 20:42, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Elvis in Maian SOS?

"Maian SOS is set at roughly the same time as the Chicago missions, during the radio silence between Carrington and Joanna, and casts players as Elvis. Waking up in an autopsy lab in Area 51, following the shooting down of the Maian ambassador's craft, the player must fight their way to the radio room to contact the Carrington Institute and request rescue. Along the way, they must destroy the body of the ambassador, so that it cannot be experimented on, and they must also destroy the remains of the ambassador's craft. After sending the signal, Elvis is knocked out by a guard with a tranquiliser."

I'm not sure, but is it really Elvis we play as in that level, or is it the other Maian Protector Joanna has to X-ray scan in "Area 51 - Rescue"? I can't remember myself, but I just wanted to draw attention to the possibility that this bit of the article might be wrong. --Nick R 23:06, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I just checked the game, and the briefing in that mission is in the form of a log by "Maian Protector one". Elvis introduces himself as this in the third A51 mission.--Drat (Talk) 04:38, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Weapons

I've added more detail about weapons; namely, descriptions of every weapon in the game. If anybody sees any wrong information, or wishes to expand, go ahead. I've left the original weapon descriptions intact since they seem like a nice overview, if the reader doesn't care about reading about all the weapons. Mipchunk 05:52, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

What happened to the weapons section? I can see when it was supposedly moved to it's own page in the history, but that page redirects back to the main article, all the weapon info is gone from the current version.

Mortaneous 15:35, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jonathan Dark

When is Jonathan referred to as Jonathan Dark?

I just checked, and he is called Jonathan Dark in the bonus level "The Duel". I'm sure it also appears somewhere else (not in his character profile in Grimshaw's office, though).--Drat (Talk) 17:08, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
He's also called Johnathan Dark in the storyline of many hardcopy guides to the game and I think even in the storyline section in the actual game. Very very good agents are called Dark agents and they have the title "Dark" placed after their names, Joanna is refered to as 'perfect' in the eyes of Danial Carington so thats where she got 'Perfect Dark' from, and John, he's obviously a very very good agent too, just not quite perfect yet.

[edit] Development and influences section

I've added this section, based almost entirely on an interview with Martin Hollis in the January 2006 issue of Retro Gamer. I hope I haven't used so many quotations that it's disqualified as fair use. :)

Since such a lot of the info in the section comes from this one article (the only other bits are from an earlier Retro Gamer interview with David Doak), I wasn't sure of the best way to cite it. I tried putting the superscript note in the section heading, but that made [1] appear after the section name in the contents. In the end I decided to add a comment at the start of the article (In an interview with Retro Gamer magazine, Martin Hollis, the director of GoldenEye 007 and Perfect Dark, described the development of the game.[1] All quotations in this section, unless stated otherwise, are from this interview.). Can anyone think of a better way than this to cite it?

Also, something else that needs to be done (in the GoldenEye 007 article as well) is to put a, b, c, d in the references section, to link back up to additional mentions of a particular article; but I don't fully understand the template formatting yet... --Nick RTalk 22:02, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My edits to this article

Looking at the article as it is now, it has the feeling of an extremely well-researched and potentially excellent article that is held back only by the fact that the majority of its editors love the game a little too much. I too am very fond of this game but a considerable amount of redaction is necessary to bring this article into a state where it can be enjoyed by someone who has not yet lovingly enjoyed every nuance of the game. That's what I'm trying to do. Please don't be offended if I delete something that you worked on, or move it around within this article or out to another one. If you really feel that I've deleted something important, by all means message me and we'll try to come to a consensus. This article could definitely reach Featured status. Soo 20:02, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that the weapons list should be moved to its own separate article. The weapons information is fundamentally tied to the game itself (there is no value in the article as a stand-alone), and is important information for the main article. I believe it should be re-merged. Mipchunk 06:20, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Although the weapons are of course an integral part of the game, it doesn't necessarily follow that their every nuance is important, and such an exhaustive treatment is out of place in the main article. If you think the paragraph on weaponry in the current article is too brief then by all means expand it. As for the list article itself, I thought this part of the article was the part most easily spun out to a satellite article. To me this seemed preferable to deleting the text completely. Whether there is any value in the separate article itself (and personally I think there is) is probably a matter for AFD. Soo 08:21, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I think it should be made a seperate article. I think that there should be an option to create "sub-articles" that exist under the umbrella of a main article, although these may already exist and I just don't know about them yet :)

[edit] Impact

The peer review suggested a section on the impact of and reactions to the game. I think this is a good idea, but finding suitable sources is difficult six years on. Here's what I've found so far, for reference. If you have magazines lying around that feature reviews of this game, please add their conclusions. Likewise if we can find more useful sales figures (especially a global total), that would be very useful. Once this section is decent then I'll move it onto the article page.

yes i think you need more in this section for it to become GA (i was about to promote it but this bit held me off). Zzzzz 12:43, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm working on it. Soo 14:11, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I feel it should be mentioned that many games have copied or been "influenced" by Perfect Dark's multiplayer capabilities.
If you can provide reliable sources, go right ahead.--Drat (Talk) 12:33, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA Failure

Perfect Dark was recently nominated to be promoted to good article status, but has unfortunately failed. Reasons for failing GA:

  • First image: Perfect dark box.jpg
    • Needs Fair Use Rationale (FUR)
  • Second: PerfectDarkscreen1.jpg
    • Needs FUR
  • Third: Perfectdark1.jpg
    • Needs replaced with a smaller version
    • Needs sourced
    • Needs FUR
  • Fourth: Perfectdark2.jpg
    • Needs replaced with a smaller version
    • Needs sourced
    • Needs FUR
  • Fifth: Perfectdark3.jpg
    • Needs replaced with a smaller version
    • Needs sourced
    • Needs FUR
  • Sixth:
    • Needs sourced (I took the capture isn't good enough)
    • Needs FUR
  • References & E.L.
    • Cleanup
    • Chose between "retrieved" and "accessed"

No way will you pass FA or even GA with a major problem wrong with every image, I'm not even going to read it because it doesn't stand a chance of passing. Highway Rainbow Sneakers 23:24, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] useful links

http://www.revo-europe.com/news.php?nid=8772 http://www.revo-europe.com/news.php?nid=8816

  • They're rubbish links by a jilted Nintendo fan. It's true that Rare never captured the heights of Goldeneye and Donkey Kong Country, but the only reason anyone criticises them now is because they no longer develop for Nintendo. There was pretty much zero criticism about Rare over Killer Instinct 2, or indeed, the sub par late N64 games. It's only since they've shifted from Nintendo that anyone dares speak out over them. Had the rant about Rare's quality been released before they shifted to Microsoft, you could take them seriously, but they haven't and you can't. - Hahnchen 18:32, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Thats true, although the simple fact that they changed to an inferior platform to make their games means their quality will, and has, ultimatly suffered. Furthermore, I believe a sum of money was involved in bringing them across to M$, it was in the news, and M$ did this to gain maret share over Nintendo, it would appear as though it has worked, for the pure and simple fact that there are no longer any Rare created games on the nintendo, nothing else.
"Thats true, although the simple fact that they changed to an inferior platform" That is not a simple fact, it is your own POV. Chewbacca1010 07:12, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Negative critical reaction

One notable person who crticised Perfect Dark is Steven Poole. In his book Trigger Happy, he mentions the game's inconsistent level design, the unremarkable design of Lara Croft-alike Joanna Dark, and criticises the decision to choose image quality over framerate (or "temporal resolution", as he calls it). I don't think the comments are in all editions of the book; IIRC it's in an Afterword for the second edition of the book in 2000.

Unfortunately, I don't have my copy of the book anywhere near me at the moment, but this will be something to include when I get hold of it again in a few weeks. :) --Nick RTalk 14:46, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah.. That may be a good thing to add to the article, but only a one or two sentences would really be neccesary. M2K 19:54, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I believe that Rare actually commented in an issue of N64 Gamer or N64 Magazine whatever it's called now, and they said somthing allong the lines of: The game was made with no restrictions on how much you asked it to do, so you had the ability to fill the level with humans and 'bots' and all run around with N-Bombs or somthing, and it would go "choppy" (as is the slogan: "Choppy like a playstation") and the reason why they gave the gamer the ability to slow down the frame rate was because they wanted you to be able to fill the level up with as many players as possbile and judge for yourself how much frame rate "choppiness" you can deal with. I think it was a wise decition, however, a perfect escuse to say somthing negative about the game.

[edit] Simulants using Slayer's fly-by-wire function

I have edited this where it previously said that simulants cannot use the guided rockets of the Slayer, because they can. I have no idea how many times I've watched as enemy slayer rockets weaved their way around corridor corners. However, I don't have a screenshot for verification. Any PD players have one/could get one to back this up? Cheers.

- MisterTweek

You are correct; I remember playing against the simulants, and seeing the fly-by-wire rockets slowly moving around corners. The only weapon functions I can recall them not being able to use are the remote mines, laptop gun sentry mode, and the short burst laser (the Fist Sims seemed to always use the "stream" mode I believe). Not sure how a screenshot would help though; it looks the same when they use it as when a human player does. MrLeo 23:47, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
This was my mistake, sorry. Soo 12:47, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Face Mapping via Gameboy Camera

This was a huge controversy at the time. I do believe that the game was released sometime after the Columbine massacre and there was an implemented feature that allows players to map their faces on their characters in-game using the gameboy camera. Because of the massacre apparantly the features was removed last minute.

It has been a while since then, but I believe the details of this event should be covered and included into the article.

There is a mention in the article. If you want to elaborate, you can, but don't go too far (it's a featured article), and cite your source.--Drat (Talk) 16:21, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Perfect Dark Initial Vector and Perfect Dark (game boy)

Front page and we've got two dead links at the bottom? Could someone get around to making (or finding) pages for them please? --SeizureDog 23:44, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ozymandias Puzzle

Hi there - I'm not sure if this is significant, but I thought I'd mention it, as it's been haunting me for years. Though it could have just been added to mess with players, I always thought this was a legitimate "metagame". If you picked up de Vries's necklace in the first mission (after killing her - failing the mission, of course) and looked at it on the item menu, and then let the item description scroll for a while, it gave you a username and password (User Name: CDV780322, Passsword: I8MOZYM8NDI85), and possibly the link to www.datadyne.com, which had a "Restricted Area" message and prompted a username and password (now it's just a mirror for the regular Rare homepage, I think). When de Vries kills herself much later in the game, she has a different necklace, that has the description "Birth Fame Death". I spent hours trying to figure this one out. --Beefnut 03:05, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

My name is Ozymandias, king of kings. Look upon my works, ye mighty and despair. Raul654 05:06, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
As far as I remember, there was no link to the fake dataDyne site in the game itself, and that "Birth Fame Death" bit is new to me. I'll check the game again later.--Drat (Talk) 05:22, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
The above is just from what I had written down in a notepad file, and this was all a pretty long time ago. Hope I'm not misleading anyone here. --Beefnut 06:14, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
I totally remember the username and password and they're relation to the data dyne website, and it was one of those things at the time the game was new and everyone had theories, I do believe it did actually get you into a restricted section on the data dyne website, one of my friends got into it, but it didnt have any amazing information, but more info about data dyne and how it was just a cover company while all sorts of evil existed underneath. As for her necklace before she dies, I believe rare once said it was one of their so called "easter eggs" put in there for amusment etc.

[edit] Sequenced Music

Contrary to what was written in this article, the music in Perfect Dark is sequenced. I know this with certainty from my experience reverse-engineering the game's software sound driver. I can't think of any easy way to prove this except to say that the size of all of the music data and relevant code for music playback is 1.75mb (as you can see here: http://c9.servage.net/~sc19031-ZCPG/usf/), which is far less than would conceivably be required if the music were encoded in streaming mp3. For comparison, the F-Zero USF set, which does use streaming audio, is 8.67mb. Aside from this, there's the fact that the music sounds like it is sequenced: there is little sample variation and every instrument is clearly synthesized.

[edit] i'm confused

what the hell is going on here? could someone please explain why this page reads like a forum and why it is still the daily article?

This is the talk page for the featured article. Click the "article" tab at the top. 64.128.179.40 12:42, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Unbeliavable

I still play this game every week. Nothing can surpass it. It is beautiful to see it featured. --Chueyjoo 17:31, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Uh..thanks for letting us know that.MiracleMat 19:01, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Is that not just a little biased, Chueyjoo? Elevenzeroonnechat / what i've done / email 20:45, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What?

What EXACTLY about this article makes it worthy of being featured? It is a jumble of useless factiods about a video game. --Falcon48x 19:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Articles aren't featured because they are about important topics. Articles are featured because they are good. And this article isn't a "jumble." I wouldn't say it's one of the best articles. But not bad, at least.Mipchunk 20:35, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
It's a well written article about a video game that refined "console first person shooters" by building on the success of Rare's smash hit "Goldeneye 007." It's as noteworthy as the time they put "Warcraft III" or was it "Starcraft" up, I can't remember. Payneos 22:06, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
It was Starcraft.--SeizureDog 07:11, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pop culture references

To me, a major aspect of the game that has barely been touched, is the numerous references to pop culture made in the game: the flying cars from The Fifth Element, Mr. Blonde from Reservoir Dogs... Those are hardly even mentioned, in the "Development" part of the article. Some of the main appeal of the game for me was that the inane plot really was an ironic take on many recurring aspects of pop culture such as the "grays," the evil reptilian aliens, etc. and the article totally eschews that point of view. What a shame! LeoDV 09:17, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

If you can find references that support those, then go right ahead! By the way, you wouldn't happen to be the same LeoDV from Ninten (back when it was Ninten), would you?--Drat (Talk) 10:08, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Defecting Guard

Sorry I know this is not a forum, but can anyone shed light on a glitch that appears to happen on Mr Blonde's Revenge? Very occassionally (I must have played this level four hundred times or more and it has only happenned five times) a female guard starts to fight as an ally and appears as an ally in your gun sight (blue instead of red). It is much the same effect as having shot her with the psycosis gun, which is neither in that level, nor is it one I have managed to gain as a cheat. Dainamo 17:02, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I've heard other people talking about the same glitch happening extremely rarely, with theories on it taking place when the computer has too many AI's under its control or any number of things. Unless you want to start hacking around with a gameshark yourself, I don't know of anyone else who's found a way to easily reproduce it or track down why it takes place.--BigCow 23:55, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Does it matter? If anything that's good! Elevenzeroonnechat / what i've done / email 20:47, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Storyline

Will anybody rewrite the storyline in a concise but informative way? One person did rewrite it, but it was a bit long, so I reverted it for the time being (sorry!). But we can still re-incoporate part of that rewritten passage into a new version of the storyline. I myself am not too familiar with the storyline, having played the missions many years ago (I mainly just play multiplayer). Mipchunk 02:42, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

The additions were copy-pasted from here. I've given the IP user the standard nothanks warning.--Drat (Talk) 04:44, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Since this is a featured article and has appeared on the front page, I think it's fair to assume that the storyline section has broad consensus and does not need a re-write. Soo 10:36, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mission sequence

To me it smacks a bit of instruction manual/game guide and doesn't really mean anything to a general reader who hasn't played the game. What's the reasoning behind including it? (Note that this is more for clarification than an attempt to get it removed) -- Steel 22:57, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

It's one of the few things left from before I started editing this article. I guess it just seemed like an obvious thing to include, and to show how the game itself fits with the storyline. I wouldn't object greatly to it being removed, but I consider it similar to a track listing for an album; not the central point of the article, but just the sort of fact that someone would expect to find there. I'm open to persuasion either way. Soo 23:11, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
The reason I ask is because "but Perfect Dark has one, and that's featured" is being used to defend the inclusion of a similar table in another article. I would object to this being in the article under WP:NOT a collection of indiscrimination and the whole instruction manual thing. What does it add to the article? "Attack Ship - Covert Assault" only means something to those who've played through that far - it means nothing to the general reader. -- Steel 23:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't call it indiscriminate in this case; the list of levels is fairly short, inoffensively placed and of at least some use. That might not apply to other articles, so don't take this is a precedent. As you suggest yourself, the list probably wouldn't have survived a very aggressive FA nomination if it were that bad. We shouldn't exclude things just because they're in the instruction manual, although it's not a bad rule of thumb. Like I said, by all means remove it if it really bothers you, but I don't want this article to be damaged by discussion about another one. Soo 22:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Well, I'd rather not just get rid of it when I'm the only one with objections to it. My main objection is that it's a bit crufty, only meaning something to a narrow band of people, though this is hardly keeping me awake at night. -- Steel 14:50, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
I'll leave this discussion open. If anyone else feels strongly then let us know. Soo 15:32, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I disagree that this is "crufty". It is precisely the same as a track listing on an album and something one might expect to find in a reference source for the game. Dainamo 14:22, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Steel as if you haven't played through the game you wont know what half the mission titles mean. Elevenzeroonnechat / what i've done / email 20:50, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Ah what the heck I'll add it anyway...revert it if you want :( elevenzeroonnechat / what i've done / email 20:11, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I was indifferent to the old mission list which was a fairly discreet sidebar. The new monstrosity was just too bad. Soo 21:32, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Sorry Soo :( elevenzeroonnechat / what i've done / email 19:28, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't take it personally. Soo 09:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Famitsu review?

Could someone find out what Famitsu gave Perfect Dark? I'd be nice to get a Japanese take on things.--SeizureDog 08:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

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