Talk:Pentecostalism

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[edit] UK women's ministry

In the UK it is very rare for Pentecostal churches to exercise women's ministry, whereas one can often find non-pentecostal evangelical churches with women ministers. It follows that women's ministry - either for or against - is not characteristic of either pentecostal or non-pentecostal churches in the UK. -pftaylor 01 04 2006

That's probably just an anomaly. Hairouna 02:35, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] True Jesus Church Taiwan

I'm not sure what the following sentence is supposed to say as it doesn't seem to be in context in the place it is currently in - " The True Jesus Church, an indigenous church founded by Chinese believers on the mainland but whose headquarters is now in Taiwan. "

[edit] Pentecostalism differs from Fundamentalism

I'm not sure Pentecostalism differs from Fundamentalism as its stated here and as its defined by Wikipedia itself. I think this should be rephrased. -LuckyDay 04 21 2005

While they have the same political agendas, their style of worship and doctrines are completely different. Fundamentalists generally have rigid doctrines, while many Pentecostal doctrines are rather fluid, and can change from church to church, pastor to pastor, and sometimes from year to year. There are no "new manifestations" in Baptist churches. - aexapo 12/26/05
I've removed the phrase "and by adopting an Arminian rather than Calvinist view of Soteriology and Grace." from the definition of how Pentecostalism differs from Fundamentalism. Pentecostalism is generally Arminian, but Fundamentalism isn't distinctly either. Fundamentalists fall into Arminian, Calvinist and all sorts of in-between categories. - JoshuaC87 16/11/2006

[edit] date on the formal unification event

Whew! I am pooped! I need a date on the formal unification event, the great big with the foot-washing etc. It may have been 1997, not 1998. wiki wiki wiki!

Nice work. Two questions.
  • What about the geographic spread of the pentecostal religion?
  • Would it not be more proper to name the page pentecostalism?

[edit] 400 million figure

Where do you get the 400 million figure from? The Hadden lecture says it's nine million. --LMS

Ha! Got 400 million from the web. I have seen estimates as high as 500 million. Either of these figures would have to include all of the charismatic subfamilies. The two new links on the page are excellent. Hadden's 9 million is US, and is definitely low. He only counts "established" churches. There are *lots* of independent congregations in this tradition. 400 million is probably high, even worldwide.
Pentecostalism is less a denomination than a family of beliefs and worship traditions. In a nutshell, add Acts 6 to the Nicene Creed and you have the basis of doctrine, add electric guitars, a drum set and (optionally) a brass section to the choir, presto, worship (Yes, can be very loud, as in "raise the roof" loud. Someone explained it to me once:
"We don't believe Satan should have all the good music.")
Pentecostalism might be a better name, maybe even Modern Pentecostalism. Somebody else can refactor, rename whatever, or I will do it later.
The spread is world-wide, but it appears to be growing fastest in the Americas.

[edit] Charismatic movement

Do you want to mention anything here about the charismatic movement? I believe this is basically pentecostal ideas and worship styles coming into other more "mainline" denominations. Also, do the figures include charismatics? That might be fair enough if you're just counting Christians who use drums and electric guitars and perhaps "speak in tongues", but it also runs the risk of double counting a lot of people, depending on how the numbers are used. --Wesley

I can't do it, because I don't have the numbers, but a better job needs to be done between distinguishing between the Pentecostal Church and the pentecostal movement. Something also should be mentioned about oneness pentecostalism (or whatever it's called), which has a different view of the Trinity than do "orthodox" Christians.

just copied the above discussion from the Pentecostal Talk page, since Pentecostal now redirects to Pentecostalism. Wesley

[edit] Toronto Blessing and the Vineyard Movement

Picky point about the Toronto Blessing and the Vineyard Movement. The Toronto church that "housed" the Blessing WAS a Vineyard church into the mid-90s, when the leaders of Toronto and the leaders of the Vineyard could not agree on a variety of issues, including authority issues, prophet vs. pastor issues, things like this. The Toronto church is not a Vineyard anymore, and the Vineyard stakes out a place that blends features of pentecostalism and features of evangelicalism. I am going to double-check this, then update the entry to reflect this.Professor

[edit] If speak in tongues then have not received the blessing of the Holy Spirit

So, I'm trying to reconcile these two sentences:

Most major Pentacostal churches also accept the corollary that those who don't speak in tongues have not received the blessing of the Holy Spirit. [...] The idea that one is not saved unless one speaks in tongues is rejected by most major Pentecostal denominations.

I think that either:

  1. One of them is wrong
  2. There's some subtle difference here between "receiving the blessing of the Holy Spirit" and "being saved"
  3. There's supposed to be some implicit difference between "churches" and "denominations" (that is, "church" isn't being used as a synonym for "denomination", but for a congregation)

Anyway around it, it's kind of a confusing little couplet. --ESP 03:32, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

See the article / talk pages at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Baptism_of_the_Holy_Spirit for a further discussion of saved vs speaking in tongues Johnmarkh 21:46, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pat Robertson

Pat Robertson was removed by anonymous user 68.159.71.33 with the emphatic claim that he's not Pentecostal. I suppose some Pentecostals would not want to claim him, but that is not sufficient reason to remove him. I checked several sources that all said he was originally Southern Baptist, but is now of the Pentecostal pursuasion. So unless 68.159.71.33 (or someone else) can come up with more justifictation for the change, I will return his name to this page after a couple days. Pollinator 01:53, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Noted: no response. Pollinator 13:00, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Pentecostalism is half a century older than Charismatics

Some points.

Pentecostalism is half a century older than Charismatics. Charismatism is a middle-class version of Pentecostalism, rejecting the obligation of speaking in tongues and the legalism.

Most Charismatics and quite some Pentecostals have turned neo-Evangelicals, and are specifically called neo-Pentecostals. Neo-Evangelicals are considered heretical to various degrees by orthodox, conservative Evangelicals, specially by Reformed Evangelicals.

I will modify the article accordingly if no one else does...

At the beginning of the article, it says, "Pentecostalism may be viewed as a subset of the Charismatic movement which may also include Catholic members." Is this true because of the number of Charismatics as compared to Pentecostals, or should this say, "Charismaticism, which may also include Catholic members, may be viewed as a subset of the Pentecostal movement"? The Pentecostal movement was around long before the Charismatic movement. Just wondering! Raina 07:56, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It's a complex issue. As a Pentecostal, I personally view the two movements as separate but intertwined. They have many common features, but (by and large) they have very different historical roots. There has, of course, been a lot of interaction between the two movements over the years, and the line of demarcation is sometimes blurred. Nevertheless, I would not say that either movement is a subset of the other. Rather, I would sat that each movement is self-contained, but influences the other a great deal. I hope this helps. David Cannon 11:09, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Let's try the statements:
All Pentacostals are Charismatics -true as far as I know, so Pentacostals are a subset of Charismatics
All Charismatics are Pentacostals -not true, many exceptions including Catholic Charismatic Rmhermen 12:23, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)
Imagine three circles intertwined. (eg the symbol on John Bonham's drums[1]) There you have a good representation of how Charismatics, Pentecostals and Evangelicals are related, but separate. They share a great deal in common, but I do not think you could call one a "subset" of the other without being unfair to everything. One Salient Oversight 13:21, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Perhaps the definition of the word, charismatic, has changed in recent years. When I first heard of it, it was definitely something other than pentecostalism. What is considered, now, to be its definition, and what is the modern definition of Pentecostal? Raina 20:19, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I am guessing that One Salient Oversight has a different definition of both Charismatic and Pentecostal than I but without further explanation I can't tell what it is. Having tried to read the Charismatic article hear is no real help. Does anyone follow what it is saying? The usage I am familiar with calls all who beleive in the ongoing practice of gifts as Charismatics, regardless of any other practices or beliefs. This would include all Pentecostals. Rmhermen 15:22, Sep 15, 2004 (UTC)
I think Rmherman is quite right at this point. I've been trying for months to come up with a definition of the difference between the two movements. Maybe it's just because it is really hard nowadays to work out the difference. Regardless, the article probably needs a major clean-up. One Salient Oversight 23:13, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Romania

I have removed Romania from the statistics section. An anonymous editor claimed that my statistics were inaccurate, and provided this source, and when I checked my original source, I found that I had mis-copied the percentage of the population (1.3) as the total Pentecostal population in millions. The error was mine, and I apologise. David Cannon 20:13, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Numbers

To the anonymous user who keeps on reverting the statistics to those from the 1994 edition of Operation World: that edition is 10 years out of date. The latest edition is the one published in 2000, on which these statistics are based. If you disagree with the statistics in this book, please provide an alternative - up to date - source for your claims. If you can provide a more recent source, we can discuss that, but please DO NOT use an older source. Thank you. David Cannon 19:24, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I would (again) request our anonymous editor to stop using false sources. You say you got your latest figure of 50m from Johnson's 2001 Operation World - but page 3 of that source says 115m. The figure for Africa alone comes to more than 41m (page 21) and North America 21m (page 32) - these two continents alone have more than the 50m you claim. Factor in Latin America - 32m (page 34), Asia - 15m (page 41), Europe - 4m (page 52) and the Pacific - 3m (page 58), and your claims don't add up, according to the source you're claiming. I believe you are confused. You may dispute these statistics if you want to (they're not infallable) but please back up your claims with sources (post-2001) that can be checked. I WILL check any source you give me, as I have this one, and if you manufacture statistics out of thin air and MIS-attribute them to a particular source, I will keep on reverting you until you get tired. I'm serving notice that I myself will not get tired, so if you want to vandalize Wikipedia you're in for a marathon, not a sprint. David Cannon 12:34, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Pentecostals who don't speak in tongues

User:68.89.219.152 removed a section that spoke about some Pentecostals not speaking in tongues for various reasons. I have reverted this because I think it is likely that some who call themselves Pentecostals do not speak in tongues for these reasons. Removing it is essentially stating that these people are not Pentecostals - which may be true for some people but not for everyone else. --One Salient Oversight 01:56, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

If a person attends a Pentecostal church, for example as recent convert or as a child of a Pentecostal parent, but has not as yet experienced the Baptism in the Holy Spirit they may still be referred to as a Pentecostal....the condition for membership is usually that the person is 'ardently expecting and ernestly seeking the baptism of the Holy Spirit ..of which speaking in tongues is the normally expected initial evidence....Johnmarkh 23:39, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Snakes?

Nothing about the handling of snakes? That's the funniest part.

[edit] Pentecostalism isn't a subset of Protestantism

IMO, Pentecostalism, while largely decendend from Protestantism is not a part of it. The theology is different, and most importantly, the internal workings of congregrations is very different. There is certainly more different between Pentecostalism and Protestantism than between Restorationism and Protestantism (which are treated as being quite seperate).matturn 13:34, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As a Pentecostal myself, I VERY strongly disagree. Frankly, I know hardly any Pentecostals who would endorse your opinion.David Cannon 22:38, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
As a non-Pentecostal who has attended Pentecostal churches, I fully concur with David on this. Some major similarities are as follows:
  • A belief in the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity (except for Oneness Pentecostals)
  • A belief in the substitutionary atonement of Christ
  • A belief that Baptism and the Lord's Supper are the only two sacraments (some Pentecostals would disagree on this)
  • A belief that those who place their faith in Jesus Christ are saved and are assured salvation.
  • A congregational church political model (usually).
--One Salient Oversight 00:02, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm an ex-"Restorationalist" who always considered myself a Protestant, and was then involved with a couple of Pentecostal churches for a while. Here in Australia at least, most of the "spiritual decendents" of the Stone-Campbell movement consider themselves Protestants. (Luther, Calvin and the other clearly Protestant fathers believed as Stone, Campbell and other "Restorationalists" that they were "restoring" a purer version of Christianity).

The Pentecostals certainly don't think of themselves as Protestants, although they consider Protestants Christian (a status not usually confered to Catholics). And they run their churches completely differently, usually use different worships styles, concentrate on completely different parts of the scripture, etc. In Australia, for instance, the Pentateuch based "Prosperity Doctrine" is preached by most Pentecostal churches, but few Protestant ones.

In response to One Salient Oversight, in my experience of Australian Pentecostal churches (and what I've heard from others):

  • They don't care much about the nature of the Trinity - the Holy Spirit is seen to represent the entire Godhead on earth.
  • They don't have a commonly understood concept of "sacraments". Any action the Holy Spirit is involved in is as good as any other. The Lord's Supper is irregularly or seldom practiced. Baptism isn't seen as a requirement to be saved, so it doesn't have a high level of importance. It's treated like Lutherans and other child baptists treat Confirmation.
  • They believe in autocratic Pastors or Husband-and-Wife Pastor teams running their churches, with very little involvement from the congregration (like some of the "early-Protestant" Anglicans and Lutherans, but unlike "modern Protestants").

This may of course not be the case in the US and other places.

matturn 12:56, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't know what kind of "Pentecostal" church you've run into. What you're talking about bears no comparison to any that I've been involved with, not even by a wild stretch of the imagination. I do know that there are all sorts of weird groups that have misappropriated the "Pentecostal" label, but if you deal with any recognized Pentecostal denomination (Assemblies of God, Elim, Apostolic, etc) you'll find they disown these flakey groups.
BTW, I don't think you removed Andrea Mason from the list for any good reason. Deleting chunks of information without explanation is considered vandalism. If she is no longer the FFP leader, please cite your source. At any rate, she led the party into the last election and as such, is (at least historically) a significant figure who should not be deleted from the list. David Cannon 14:08, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've been involved with a couple of AoG churches, making up the majority of my Pentecostal experience. From one with about a dozen regular attendees, to one that gets about a 1000 people turning up each Sunday. They (and those inbetween) matched my description, in my eyes anyway.

Even if you think the severity of my statements is incorrect, I think most who'd observered a number of Australian (well Victorian ones at least) Protestant and AoG churches would agree that the two groups differ in those areas. While the "Restorationalist" ones are nearly indistingushable from mutually acknowledged Protestant ones.

As for removing Andrea Mason, I agree in hindsite that was rash. My source for her not being the designated leader - www.familyfirst.com.au - it's there on the homepage.

IMO she was never a major figure in the party, despite being named it's leader. During the one campaign she lead the party, she hardly represented the party in the national media at all. And who did? The party's founder, long time AoG internal politics master and semi-retired leader of the highly popular Paradise church - Andrew Evans. Andrea however, had much less experience in these circles, and I think it's unlikely she ever wielded much power. She did have experience as Andrew's personal assistant though, which I strongly suspect served her well in her shortly held position. matturn 11:03, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hello Matt. Thanks for your comments.
I, too, am from Australia and my experience of Pentecostalism has been mainly Australian. I would still beg to differ in a major way to the points you have made.
The Trinity. If you look at the statements of faith for many of these churches you will discover that they are quite orthodox. I realise that statements of faith are not always what they seem, but I think that if you pressed individual Penetcostals hard on the Trinity - especially their leaders - you will probably discover that they are reasonably orthodox. Many Pentecostal churches in their meetings may emphasize the Holy Spirit over and above the other two members of the Trinity, but this does not mean they do not care for this doctrine. It's just that they may not talk about it often.
The Sacraments. Both Baptism and the Lord's Supper would be mentioned as well in their statements of faith. Many individuals may not fully understand them, and nor may their pastors, but this is not uncommon amongst non-Pentecostal protestants either! The regularity of celebrating the Lord's Supper is something that many Protestant churches differ on (Presbyterians do it 4 times per year, Anglicans do it 4 times a week sometimes). Your statement Baptism isn't seen as a requirement to be saved smells quite fishy to me and reminds me of Baptismal Regeneration which is certainly not a majority belief in the Protestant church. Moreover, Pedobaptist protestant churches such as the Anglicans, Presbyterians, Lutherans and Methodists are not considered "un-protestant" by those who hold to believer's baptism.
Autocratic Pastors. I would agree with you that this is a phenomena that is more common amongst Pentecostal churches than mainstream protestants. However I know that there are many non-autocratic Pentecostal churches and some very autocratic and controlling non-Pentecostal churches.
Lest you think that I am an apologist for the Pentecostal movement, think again. I wrote the bulk of Criticisms of Charismatic and Pentecostal belief because I personally have major problems with their doctrine and behaviour.
God bless,
--One Salient Oversight 13:59, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding womens ministry

Hello. I am not a regular user of this page so I don't have an account. I myself am a Pentecostal believer. I was just wondering if it were perhaps possible to re-phrase the statement regarding women's ministry. It says in the article that it is contrary to the teachings of both Peter and Paul. I don't want to start an argument or anything, but wouldn't be a bit more appropriate for an encyplopedia to take a more neutral stand? It is debatable whether this is really the teaching of the Scriptures, Pentecostals most certainly believe it to be in harmony with the scriptures to allow women to minister. The article could state that Pentecostals allow women to minister, which seperates them from some other protestants with a high view of scripture, or something like that.

God bless.

Helgi.

I removed the POV sentence, which has been added somewhere along the way, likely by a Fundamentalist, which illustrates the difference between Pentecostals and Fundamentalists, if it was. Certainly Pentecostals would not allow women ministers, if they thought it were contrary to scripture, so it is, as you say, debatable. Pollinator 18:52, May 3, 2005 (UTC)


Why? Is it not contrary? Paul DID say expressly that a woman was not to teach, or have authority over a man!! Why be "neutral" as you put it, and say that his writings are of no revalance......or use to belivers today?

He also said that speaking in toungues was not edifying, and thus should not be done.. like if I was to comment here in Cebuano... dili mo makasabut unsay akong sulti! But you are edified if I put it understandably, in English. (BTW- I am an RP-MK....All MKs come see me in mkplanet.com) Warbler- June 14, 2005

[edit] A glaring ommission

There is no discussion of the early church fathers with supporting quotations.

I strongly believe there should be.

Please see: http://www.victorious.org/sprgifts.htm

ken 17:36, 9 August 2005 (UTC)kdbuffalo

[edit] I fixed the ommission

I added:

Dr. Dale A. Robbins writes in regards to charasmatic beliefs that Church history argues against the idea that charismatic gifts went away shortly after the apostolic age. Dr. Robbins quotes the early church father Irenaeus (ca. 130-202) as writing the following,"...we hear many of the brethren in the church who have prophetic gifts, and who speak in tongues through the spirit, and who also bring to light the secret things of men for their benefit [word of knowledge]...". Dr. Robbins also cites Irenaues writing the following, "When God saw it necessary, and the church prayed and fasted much, they did miraculous things, even of bringing back the spirit to a dead man." According to Dr. Robbins Tertullian (ca. 155–230) reported similar incidents as did Origen (ca. 182 - 251), Eusebius (ca. 275 – 339), Firmilian (ca. 232-269), and Chrysostom (ca. 347 - 407).[2]

ken 01:33, 30 August 2005 (UTC)kdbuffalo


[edit] Hi

I know nothing of this subject, so ill just dropp it here:

Pentecostalism - Mother of Charismaticism
Randles says that this shift in hope "began as a trickle in evangelical and Pentecostal circles...(and now) triumphalism... (is)... predominant." So today we have Dominion theory, the Reconstruction movement, Kingdom Now, and so on. All came from Pentecostalism. [3]

--Striver 04:12, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Isn't this a contradiction?

"Pentecostals believe that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is always accompanied initially by the outward evidence of speaking in tongues. This is a major difference between Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians who believe that a Christian who is baptized in the Holy Spirit may exhibit other physical signs instead of speaking in tongues. The idea that one is not saved unless one speaks in tongues is rejected by most major Pentecostal denominations."

I'm a little confused. If the last sentence is true, then it seems like the rest of the paragraph must not be.

The term "baptism in the Holy Spirit" is used by Pentecostals as an experience/event separate from conversion, when we are regenerated, receive the New Birth and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Hairouna 04:29, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't say that all Pentecostals believe that speaking in tongues is an outward evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit. I don't believe that yet still consisder myself a Pentecostal. Strawberry Island 05:19, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pentecostalism and Fundamentalism

From what I've read about fundamentalism, it appears that there's plenty of room for it to include Pentecostalism, even the distinctives of Pentecostalism. I say this because the doctrine of "cessationism" (which claims that tongues, prophecy, and miracles have passed out of usage) is not a prerequisite for fundamentalism. Pentecostals are obviously not cessationist in their doctrine. Also, there's no particular worship style requirement of fundamentalism as well. Just because the majority of self-identifying fundamentalists are cessationist, have rigid worship practices, and believe in the eternal security of the believer, doesn't mean that those who differ are, by definition, not fundamentalist. Historically, many fundamentalist leaders have been very biased against Pentecostals, but in reality this was due more to personal revulsion than genuine claims of the incompatibility of Pentecostal distinctives with "fundamentalist doctrine". In other words, being cessationist doesn't make you a "true" fundamentalist" any more than speaking in tongues. Pentecostals meet every definition of fundamentalism that I can recall.

What definitions of fundamentalism have you in mind? Hairouna 02:32, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism

There is little material here on criticism of pentecostalism. We used to have a subarticle which has recently been deleted. However, in that article, and in previous versions of the history, is a lot of material that could profitably be merged here in some form. See Talk:Charismatic movement/Criticism salvage and this version. — Matt Crypto 16:38, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Deleted the unsigned and very ignorant text from this location. Dcmcgov 04:00, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Dcmcgov, it is not your position to censor the writings of editors. It's not up to us to judge whether someone is right or wrong, or to act thereupon based on our own judgements. Freedom of speech is the founding stone upon which Wikipedia (and civilisation as a whole) was born, to deny that is to deny the foundation of liberty itself. If it was patent nonsense or vandalism, state so underneath it but leave it as it is. Jachin 12:48, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History

The Spring 2006 issue of Christian History & Biography (Issue 90) has an article on Pentacostalism on pages 46-47, plus a snippet on page 8. No time to do this article tonight, but I'm letting you all know in case you want to borrow a copy from a library/friend and include relevant facts. GRBerry 02:11, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] removal of text

I have removed the following paragraph as it does not reflect the views of most Pentecostal denominations. It may be views held by some (such as Oneness which is discussed later in the article).

"Unlike some believe, Pentecostalism believes that there is no Holy Trinity but that the Godhead is one God. Pentecostal doctrine states that Jesus is the Holy Father robed in flesh and is not a separate entity or deity. Pentecostalism does not follow tradition and passed down practices but obtains every belief from the Bible. It is also stated that every belief that Pentecostal believers have is straight from the Bible. And Pentecostal followers also believe that, unlike many think, water baptism is for the remission of sins as found in Acts 2:38, not only as an outward profession of faith."


Any comments Johnmarkh 14:39, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] No reference of controversies?

I suffered child abuse at the hands of a pastor, I'm positive that thousands of others have also. Why is it not mentioned anywhere here? (Sorry for signing with an IP, but I really don't feel comfortable going public about this.) 211.30.71.59 08:02, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Edit: I've since retitled this section, there's no controversial section what so ever and .. well, pentecostals aren't seen as a very sane Christian sect where I come from? I was beaten for playing with He-Man because it 'was the devil'. I was encouraged to cry for forgiveness at the altar and told that only the parsons wife can speak in tongues because we all had the devil in us but she was the only pure one? I'm sure these are contraversial issues which would form a common theme in a lot of churches in general, but definitely should be addressed where brought. 211.30.71.59 08:09, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I've been a Pentecostal for a long time, and I have NEVER come across anything like what you've just described. I HAVE, however, had such rumours thrown in my face by NON-Pentecostals. As for the abuse, I'm terribly sorry such things happened to you. But Pentecostal churches are not the only churches where such abuses occur. It's a tragedy that afflicts Christendom as a whole, so its inclusion in an article dedicated solely to Pentecostalism would be inappropriate. David Cannon 11:01, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Your apology was kind, but uneccesary. I'm much older and well, at risk of sounding insensitive (to my own sensibilities if that?) it didn't bother me because I knew no different. Abusive behaviour is a problem systemically in all religions though, not just in Christendom by any means. Yet it's something that the Roman Catholic article has definitely addressed thoroughly, yet furthermore all religion pages have criticism sections except Pentecostalism and a lot of neo-Christian movements. Further as much as I'd like to assume good faith (AGF) I can on this talk page alone see two instances of censorship and POV pushing, which causes even more alarm and concern.  :/ 211.30.71.59 12:58, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Data from the Pew Forum

The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life recently published a mammoth 10-nation study on Pentecostalism and the Charismatic Movement. It can be found in their page on Pentecostalism, which has some other stories and studies which can be of some use to this article. The executive summary may be viewed on the website at the second link provided above, and the entire document may be downloaded and viewed as a pdf free of charge from a link on that same page. I think using data from that site can significantly increase some information on this page, particularly pertaining to Pentecostalism outside of the US. ~ Hairouna 22:15, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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