Talk:Penis enlargement

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Contents 1 vandaised 2 npov? 3 Spammers using this article? 4 Forum 5 Penis enlargement treatment (pills) 6 External links 7 Proscriptive? 8 Removal of section 9 Groundless Removals 10 Citations desperately needed 11 jelq complaint 12 Subjects deleted 13 garbage removal 14 Added sentence 15 Porn Stars? 16 Traction

[edit] vandaised

I imagine this page gets vandalised a lot?

A little bit. Just another reason that Wikipedia needs a revert-o-meter. --FOo 22:31, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] npov?

These are almost universally misleading and in the case of e-mail spam, are perceived as disturbing or offensive by many users. -- what users? How is this any different from any other article where "some people believe that..." causes NPOV disputes? --69.234.185.170 18:48, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Spammers using this article?

Just removed from the article:

===Traction===

The only effective nonsurgical method to lengthen the penis is by employing devices that pull at the glans of the penis for extended periods of time. This is known as traction; where tissues under continuous tension will undergo cellular multiplication. The result is tissue expansion, resulting in a permanent increase of the tissue. If the applied tension is too large, injury to the tissues or nerves of the penis can result.

In the absence of citations from credible medical journals, this claim ought to be regarded with suspicion. It might have been inserted into this article by an internet spammer hoping to lend credibility to a dubious and possibly dangerous device. Recent spam (April 8, 2005) for such a device links to this article.

The second paragraph was added by anonymous User:69.225.40.72, possibly a recipient of such spam (since that address has no other contributions). Spammers abusing Wikipedia's increasing credibility as a source will be a serious issue for this article or any other article that deals with matters about which spammers lie. --FOo 02:23, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I have no problem with that removal. Articles like this need to be patrolled carefully. Thanks for catching that. -Willmcw 04:00, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Forum

Hello, I may be new to Wikipedia, however, I have had over a year of penis enlargement experience and have increased my penis an inch and half in length and a little more then half an inch on girth by the use of jelqing and stretching. I can see that this page is frequently reverted by the amount of spam/vandals editting this page. Can someone please explain to me why I am not allowed to put in the Thunder's Place link? it is NOT commercial and it is a free discussion forum that deals with the science of PE without any sort of commercial involvement. Perhaps maybe someone can investigate this site as I believe it to be central to Penis Enlargement phenomena. --Raddicks 06:58am 23 July 2005

Here is the text you added:

• There are a few free forums on the net where many men actively discuss the science of penis enlargement, most credibly Thunder's Place. Which spans a range of free articles, videos and information exchange. Anyone who is seriously interested in improving erection health or penis size should start there and not be fooled by pay sites promising ridiculous claims.

This doesn't adhere to our NPOV guidelines and appears to be an ad rather than just a link. Anyway, we used to have a few external links but the spammers kept adding more and more, so we deleted them all. -Willmcw 16:32, July 23, 2005 (UTC)

Willmcw, as I assume you are the maintainer of this page, ThundersPlace would probably be the best place to actually get NPOV information, granted I agree that Raddicks' edit was not exactly NPOV but further consideration should be made about putting it in here as a useful resource. Going to the site would probably offer the most insight as to the techniques. A TP survey was recently completely which is on the way to creating a more scientific basis for PE.

[edit] Penis enlargement treatment (pills)

I recently read a article in a Danish magazine Chili. One of their journalists bought penis enlargement pills, and over a 7 week period, his penis size actually increased, both in lenght and diameter. In the article he goes to see a doctor to make him confirm the penis growth. The doctor explains that the penis growth is caused because the pills contain a drug that have a "viagra-type" effect on the body so to speak. With erection over large periods of time, you should be able to increase the amount of blood that flows to the penis, and thereby increase the size. The journalist from this article describes how he has an erection many times a day when taking the pills. Maybe this article should be rewritten sometime, as it has been shown to work? Of course, this shouldn't be without warnings, as having erections over large periods of time may have bad sideeffects.

I found the magazine again. It's from the latest magazine, october 2005. The magazine isn't on the Chili Magazine-homepage yet, but I hope it will be soon. The doctor who "inspected" his a real doctor, his name is Jerk W. Langer ([1]). --Menkhaf 08:35, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

This is how commercial pill companies make money. They bribe journalists --80.2.175.184 16:46, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I deleted the entire external links section as it contained nothing but advert links. If the section is to be restored, any links should be to academic or non-advertisement based discussions of this topic. Anyone can find 20 billion penis enlargement sites with a simple Google search

[edit] Proscriptive?

I think that this page is in conflict with Wikipedia's creed about not being an instruction manual.

Yep. But it probably needs a cleanup, not deletion. Andjam 11:39, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of section

I removed the following passage: However more clinical evidence is being brought up from urologists and phalloplasty surgeons, such as Dr. Richard Wineland of Anaheim, CA and Danny Salas of Phallocare. These two phalloplasty and urology experts have concurred that traction devices can indeed produce enough tension to provide permanent enlargement of the penis by breaking down cells in the area. Clinical studies are being conducted on this device by (http://www.locateadoc.com/folio.cfm/sid/36/id/346192 Dr. Laurence Levine)) in Illinois.

The passage originally contained a link to a traction product (Fastsize). Salas and Wineland are both on the board of that product's manufacturer. Regarding info on Levine's study, the only mention of it I can find is in the traction device manufacturer's press release section. Unless unbiased third-party info can be provided, I don't think the sources here can be considered to be NPOV. OhNoitsJamie^Talk 21:02, 15 May 2006 (UTC) Maybe this is unbiased enough for you? medical news today press release —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.58.188.68 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Groundless Removals

August 4th, 2006 Update: Moderators who are removing clean and relevant content from this article are clearly biased and are not reading medical evidence. This goes against what Wikipedia is here for. Fastsize is a CE Certified medically approved Traction device. There is more than enough Evidence that it works through clinical trials being produced right now. The evidence is in the Advisory board which includes Dr. Steven Lamm, the author of The Hardness Factor a Best Seller. If a very respected doctor like this approves of the validity of this device, the expert moderators of Wikipedia must have a very good reason for removing the content. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.58.188.68 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Citations desperately needed

I've been removing spam from this article for some time, since its a frequent target. I just sat down and read it. There is almost not cited information at all and the article appears to be little more than speculation, weasel words, rumor and original research. I've tagged the most obvious parts that need citation. If citations are not provided soon, then most of this article will be removed as it dramatically fails to meet Wikipedia's policies and guidelines on acceptable content. Editors working on this are strongly advised to read the guidelines on reliable sources as several of the existing sources are inadequate. Gwernol 12:08, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

A big problem with citations of penis enlargement(especially natural methods) is that there is not much research done by "doctors"/"scientists" themselves because they tend to believe off the bat that it is impossible and dismiss any evidence to show that natural penis enlargement works. However, if you go to any public PE forum you will see THOUSANDS of testimonials and even picture proof sections which really can't be disputed at all. Tens of thousands of men have naturally increased their penis size, even though many medical "doctors" do not recognize this fact, probably for financial reasons(they'd lose money if people could do it without going through them.) Honestly, the best place us PE'ers could probably quote from would be ThundersPlace or MoS PE forums. Sadly, there have been virtually no research on natural penis enlargement methods. And frankly, I think it would be a shame and illegal to the Wikipedia community to have all this correct information wiped. Perhaps you could make a banner that says "No official medical research has been performed to confirm or deny these reports." But deleting is just wrong. It's frustrating being a personal PE'er for years and not being able to "correct cite"(whatever the hell that means) my evidence. Sorry if I didn't go through 8 years of college just to get some piece of paper that said I was "credible." Us PE'ers are all scientists, although it's sad that some people don't realize this as such. My main point is that it would be wrong to delete this valid information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.112.229.202 (talk • contribs) .

I'm not going to get into an argument about the validity of anecdotal evidence since that isn't the point. Wikipedia has a strong policy of requiring information to be verifiable. To quote the first line of that policy "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth.". Forums are not reliable sources and therefore cannot be used to provide verifiability for information on Wikipedia. If there are no sources that can be cited, then the information cannot be on Wikipedia. Sorry. The uncited information will be deleted per Wikipedia policy unless sources can be cited. Gwernol 02:46, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] jelq complaint

Yet I just looked up 'cat fight' in Wikipedia, and guess what? Commerical links are right there at the end of the article, no problem. Two of them, as a matter of fact.

Maybe it's who you know or how much you pay that determines if you can have a link to your site on here?

I don't know what could be more pertinent to an article about JELQING than a site that sells a JELQ DEVICE.

There are no commercial links on cat fight, that I can see, only two links to information sites, and one news article. None of these are trying to sell anything, or getting any financial benefit from being referenced on Wikipedia.

Commercial links will be removed when they're found. A link to a site that sells a jelq device would invite links to all sites that sell such devices. Wikipedia is not an advertising service, sorry. If the site has useful (not promotional) information about it, then that information could be put in the article with a citation. =Axlq 14:29, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Subjects deleted

I haven't been here for a long time, and am disturbed to see that some valid points have been removed. On the subject of injections under the penile skin, I had mentioned that some plastic surgeons have used the subject's own body fat; that is true, but it has been removed. I mentioned the cutting of the penile ligament for penile lengthening, which is a highly questionable procedure but that has been done by some people; this has been removed. I mentioned the recent success of the first penile allograft, and this has been removed. These are all valid items. Who removed them and why? jaknouse

That was me, in this edit. Its pretty easy to look through the article's history and find a particular edit. I removed them because they had, for some time, been tagged with the {{citation needed}} tag and no-one had found citations to back these assertions up. I posted a warning on this talk page that unsourced material would be removed. I waited, no sources were added, so I removed the material.

If you can [{WP:CITE|cite]] reliable sources for these sections, please add them back. Thanks, Gwernol 18:06, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] garbage removal

I've taken out this paragraph:

The same month, in a non-related case (but also involving a penis pump) a 29-year old Iraqi man of Kurdish descent named Mardin Amin was en route to Iraq via Turkey from Chicago's O'Hare International Airport with his mother and two children, when a security inspector asked him to explain a 'small, black, round squeezable object' in his carry-on bag. Amin explained in a short whisper to avoid his mother's attention and potential embarrassment from being known to use sexual aids and said it was a 'pump'. However, due to his Middle Eastern accent the guard heard him say "bomb." He was charged with felony disorderly conduct as a result, but those charges were dismissed on September 13, 2006 in Cook County Criminal Court.^[1]

It has nothing to do on this page, and refers only to a corny tabloid story for, at best, a tactless gratuitous reminder.

[edit] Added sentence

I've added the following sentence to the end of the Pills paragraph - "Some people have also reported that such pills make them feel horny, and give them harder erections, but again, without any actual growth of the penis." If you search on the Internet you will find that this is true. Being an active penis enlarger I know a lot about the subject. Hiyahiyahiya 13:14, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Porn Stars?

Which porn stars have had injections or implants?

[edit] Traction

The subject of traction for lengthening is a very widely used method and has more than sufficient validity to be in this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.229.221.138 (talk) 06:52, 10 December 2006 (UTC).