Talk:PC World (retailer)

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Is this NPOV? Sounds like a sales pitch.

- yeah, this article needs some work, any notion of the reader has of "experienced specialists" working in PC World from reading this article is mis-placed ;) Joolz 08:28, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

  • Yep, it's very much a marketing pitch at the moment. I'm working on it. --bodnotbod 17:34, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
  • How about now? Mojo-chan 20:17, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] edit

Changed the content of critisms because it is unfair to say staff lack knowledge needed as most staff members in PC World are very computer literate, its only been a few temp's that we've had problems with

Also took off the old extended warranty information we used to do, which i agree was a waste of money but the new revamped monthly after sales service is much better

Maybe it is, but that's a matter of opinion, and the perception (and reality) that your old warranties were overpriced shouldn't be removed from the article unless things have demonstrably changed over a period of time.

and you can cancel it anytime and it is very useful for not computer literate customers.

Also sales staff don't pursuade customers to buy expensive machines, we look for machines that will be ideal for each customer in order to suit there needs,

You're saying that there *isn't* a strong sales culture in DSG stores?

and i think legal action could be taken against the old comments i changed as it is false information! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.67.226.119 (talk • contribs) .

You're protecting us against legal action by you or your employers? How kind. Fourohfour 19:53, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
You seem to be a PC World empolyee, which makes it pretty hard for you to have a neutral point of view. Also, the fact is that much of what you object to it true. I went for a job interview (forced to by the Job Centre even though I have a degree!) and it was all about sales. The guy didn't care if I new anything about PCs or not, all he cared about was if I /sounded/ like I knew and could get people to buy the most expensive stuff. Being highly computer literate, I always find staff to be fairly clueless.
Also, the article should mention dodgy tactics such as selling some things at a very low price, but accessories at a very high price. An example would be printers. £30 for a printer but £15 for a USB cable! Mojo-chan 19:21, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] wireless networking

Is there a source for the complaints that arose due to misadvertising the benefits of wireless networking? As I recall the commercial, it was during a section on Intel Centrino technology.

[edit] Dead link

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

[edit] Gary Glitter

The Gary Glitter repair *did* necessitate enter the folder on the desktop where his pictures were stored. I'd suggest a removal or edit of this section as it contains nothing more than speculation and half-remembered facts. If you intend on keeping it, maybe you should link to the BBC news article.

maru (talk) contribs 04:27, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


Okay, please add the link and a reference showing that it was necessary. Mojo-chan 22:06, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

    • I'd like to but I can't. Details about the nature of the work carried out are not in the public domain, and I only know about the more in-depth details through second-hand hearsay. Feel free to check the IP this comment was posted from if you're curious about where I got the information from.
If you can't offer a reference, and even admit it's second hand hearsay, I'm afraid it doesn't make the cut. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mojo-chan (talk • contribs) .
Then considering that there is no way of justifying the speculation in this section of the PC World article, it should also be removed. If Wikipedia is factual, the only the fact that Garry Glitter was arrested after the discovery of child pornography upon his computer at PC World should be included in this article, and the speculation on how should not be included. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 164.38.132.100 (talk • contribs) .
It isn`t really speculation as such, it is simply reporting the questions raised at the time. I suppose it is similar to the concerns that people have when they take their car to be repaired. You wouldn`t want the mechanic going through your glove compartment just to see what is there, or taking your car out for a drive just for fun. Similarly, you wouldn`t want people reading all the private documents (often business related) on your PC, or going through your family photos. I`m not saying PC World staff did it, maybe Glitter was stupid and set the pictures as his backdrop or screensaver, but you would imagine that if you knew you had illegal material on your PC you would go to some lengths to hide it, meaning that questions should be raised about the lengths PC World staff would have gone to to find them. Of course, those lengths might only have been to do a search for *.jpg, but why would you do that during a repair unless you were snooping? Mojo-chan 11:12, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] After Sales Service

  • Poor after sales service if no insurance/support package is taken, requiring customers to use out-sourced, national rate telephone support for hardware issues or premium rate (£1.00/minute, except for set-up which is 75p/minute) telephone support for software issues.
The telephone support for PC issues within either the manufacturers guarantee, or whilst a PC Performance agreement is valid is provided by PC Service Call, a support company based in Nottingham owned by DSGi. Calls are charged at the National Rate. This line also gives limited advice for problems with other peripherals brought from PC World, though normally you'll be referred to a PC World store.
Whoever wrote this didn't bother sign their name, but I suspect it may be the same person who vandalised the crits section. Please provide links to where you got this information from. I have personally checked the PC World web site and that's where the listed figures come from. As you can see, national rate is mentioned for hardware issues. I have dealth with PC Service Call myself, as they support more than just PC World machines. They are also a separate company. As such, "out-sourced" seems reasonable. Mojo-chan 22:18, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
I posted this, but I'm afraid I didn't vandalise the Criticisms section. The information isn't sourced from a website though it probably is available somewhere, just from experience working at PC World. I also wasn't debating calling them out-sourced at all, just pointing out the relationship between the companies, since "out-sourced" is a term people often use to refer to telephone support which is provided from another country, as opposed to just another company.
Okay, thanks for the clarification. I think "out-sourced" is correct, if you check the definition. Please sign your comments with four tilds (~) as it makes it clear which bit you wrote. Mojo-chan 23:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
I'd agree that "Out-sourced" is definitely correct, though I think many people have a warped view of the word. On the topic though, do we think it's a good idea to have this work out-sourced to what are now "The Tech Guys" (I should sign up for an account some time soon!) 164.38.32.100 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I'll add a note about PCSC. Registering is a good idea since other people seem to share your IP, so it's difficult to tell if it's you or someone else making edits. As for the Techguys thing, once details (such as charges, quality of serivce, terms etc) become clear hopefully details will be added (preferably not by DSG employees - this is not an advert!) Is it a good idea? I don't know... if it's the same people doing the in-store repairs it could have major problems. But maybe they will actually get qualified engineers to do it. PC World seems to be aware of it's bad imagine and is trying to do something about it. The real question, I suppose, is if they are really going to make changes, or just try to look like they have changed. Mojo-chan 23:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, The Tech Guys is a merger of Mastercare, PC Service Call, and Press F1 stores, so the work they carry out is going to be carry out by Mastercare Engineers, and the phone support probably by the PC Service Call centre employees. As for the level of training they receive, it's generally of a much higher standard than PC World Technical staff, since it's considered to be a more prestigous post, and one with more responsibility. As for the services offered and the associated charges, there are too many to list here, but it doesn't seem to be a great deal that hasn't been seen in a PC World store before (Either at the clinic, or the Business Centre), apart from some of the Home Entertainment installation services. It's interesting that the launch material we're getting is pushing hard that they're going to offer a lot more services in the near future, but that has to be taken with a pinch of salt. So far it seems like a reasonable idea but it remains to see, like you say, how well they execute it. (K-emp 16:50, 10 September 2006 (UTC))
The Tech Guys also includes store technicians, who will share the branding, if not the support / management of the rest of The Tech Guys. From my (in-store) perspective, it looks to be more focused on selling services.

[edit] Recent vandalism

Recently, this article has been vandalised three times, twice in the criticisms section and once at the top. The former two were both by anon users, one of who seems to be affiliated with PC World in some way. I move to place a temporary ban on the latter (164.38.132.100) if restraint is not shown in the future. Mojo-chan 22:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

IP (164.38.132.100) would be the DSG Gateway, so it could be anyone accessing from any site connected to the DSG network (Any store, head office, etc.)
Is it possible to set up a ban just on editing this article. He just did it again, and I had to rv. Mojo-chan 23:14, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

RE: Recent Vandalism ---

Yes i 'vanderlised' the critisms section before and noted it above in the 'edit' section - i did this because yes i am a PC World employee and have been for only 6 months and i am proud to be working there.

I disagree with a lot of stereotypical comments and uninformed judgements made on the PC World section but i do agree with the fact that items such as USB cables are heavily priced but its the manufactures themselfs that don't provide them in the boxes, not PC World's choice.

I hate the fact that people come in thinking we are on commission and force them to take PC Performance when we don't, all my customers i tell them the benefeits and sell it using examples of how they would need it.

Yes PCP is very useful and worth taking out, especially when the customers are computer illeturate and need the help, its not like the customers are tied down to PCP either it is pay as you go.

A lot of my customers even ask for it themselves.

I also hate the fact that people say PC World staff are dumb, i agree with it in a lot of cases and i have seen many people being hired just because they have worked in DSG chains before and know nothing about PC's.

I hate working with these people because it brings us other staff who are Microsoft certified down and there should be much better screening processes for applicants to go through, that way we could be paid more an hour, im only on £5.05 a hour and hardly any bonuses - except on margin and customer satisfaction.


Here's my account on PC World:

Pro's:

Wide range of products and decent prices - especially laptops / computers Good support and advice clinic's with very knowledgable staff Good support packages (PCP) and instant replacements Non aggressive staff No commission

Con's:

Not enough staff Some staff (1 in 20) are computer illiturate Not enough stock in store High prices on essensials - ink, cables, disks, etc.. Items unpriced Collect@Store - reserve online and get it cheaper * more info below Not enough instore training given

And hey i have a degree and Microsoft and CompTIA certifications and i know a great deal on PC's and i don't have a bias view on PC World i just have an inside view which is a lot more nuetral than an outsiders view.

Not everyone can know everything and i admit i don't know too much on sound systems but then i just pass them on to other colleagues.

As for heavy sales orientated i have never convinced a customer to spend more than they have to, our sales pitch is to find the right PC for what they use it for and we then go through the specification and say why we feel that need things like 1gb RAM for AutoCAD for an example etc.. we don't get bonuses or commission on sales, we get it for customer satisfaction so every customer we get we have to treat right to make sure we get our bonuses.

Our stores daily targets are 20k, atleast 5k of this is gained through the till during the day so that leaves 15k to be gained through about 8 sales staff so its about 2k each, which is about 5 sales in 9 hours - so why should we encourage customers to pay more, or take out our services?

I think the author and main contributor of this article on PC World website doesn't work in PC World or even DSG so how can their views be nuetral or even fair?

I have a completly 100% fair view on it, and whether or not people want to beleive my opinions is part of their anger towards PC World for various reasons.

Fact is PC World is a very competitve and sucessful vendor and it gets this way not by ripping off customers but by making customers feel happy and confident about spending in PC World again, if everything was correct on the main page why would people come to PC World to shop over and over again?

I make this comments from my home computer - i wouldn't write any of this from the stores computers through fear of being caught as internet history is checked regulary to make sure the internet isn't used a lot at work.

Collect@Store is a very easy way to get the products you want before they run out of stock and in some cases cheaper - why would anyone have a problem with this service? Its quality, just make sure you check out the onstore price before you buy it!

Thank you for taking the time to read my views, much appreciated.

Jim (not my real name)

In response to your comment. Being a PC World employee makes it hard for you to have a NPOV, but lets assume you can manage it for now.

1. Are you saying that because manufacturers don't put USB cables in printer boxes, you are somehow "forced" to sell them for £15 when other shops can sell them for £2.00?

2. Do PC World sales staff get comission? Are salaries and/or bonus based on sales figures in any way? Actually, later you admit you get bonuses based on margin, so clearly selling higher margin items is directly beneficial to you and presents a conflict of interest between serving your own needs and the needs of the customer. Thanks for the proof.

3. Can you provide references showing that PCP is a good service when genuinely helps customers, rather than a money-making premium rate phone line?

4. You say you hate the perception that PCW staff are "dumb", yet you too seem to be somewhat "illeturate". Also, you then admit that staff with no technical knowledge are sometimes hired.

5. You claim PC World is trying to hire better trained staff, yet point out that you yourself are earning less than the minimum wage (currently £5.35 for people over 22). It seems unlikely staff with MSC qualifications would want to work for minimum wage or less.

6. You claim to have a degree, but apparently not a GCSE in English. You also claim to have a more NPOV because you work for PCW. How can you have neutral feelings towards criticism of your employeer, whose fortunes directly affect your own?

7. You go back on your claim that bonuses are based on margin, and state that instead they are based on customer satisfaction. How is that measured? Please deonstrate how the measurement does not favor customers who buy higher priced items or take out extended warranties/support packages.

8. You say you have sales targets for every day. Surely this pressures you to sell higher value items to meet those targets. Are you saying they are low targets, which you easily exceed by selling low margin, low cost products, and which you have no desire to better and nothing to gain from doing so?

Only someone outside of PC World, who can take an objective look at the situation, make objective comparisons can hope to have a really NPOV. That doesn't mean you can't contribute facts of course, as long as you can source them.

9. People often go back to PC World because there are not many alternatives. Apart from other DSG owned brands, how many other large computer stores are there? I cannot think of any other chains, only individual shops such as Novatech. The only other places for many people to buy PCs are shops like Woolies or Tesco. It's a bit like Halfords, apart some small chains like Auto World (former Les Smith) there is little choice in the UK.

10. I feel bad for you, my employeer lets me use the net as much as I like, and understand I need a break every now and then. As long as I get my work done, he trusts me.

Well Jim, I feel bad for you. PC World does not sound like a nice place to work. Mojo-chan 18:57, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

____________________

1. We don't force (well certainly i don't) customers to buy the USB cables that we sell, i talk to the customers to see if they even have one to start with, if there not sure then i just say you have 28 days to bring it back for a refund.

Just because we don't say you can buy these cables in Argos for a £5 or other places doesn't mean we are forcing them to buy one from us.

2. No were not on commission based on anything - we get a bonus for hitting margain targets based on other stores in the region we are based in - the top stores in the regions get a pro-rata bonus each.

I never have made a customer spend more than they need to and i often do the oppostie and check collect@store prices for them to SAVE them money rather than get them to spend more.

Nobody i have worked with have i ever seen them say oh no sorry this one isn't for you, you need to spend this much for this one - how exactly would that work? how could we convince customers to pay way more than they have to for basic needs?

The only interest i have is to give my customers 100% because if we get enough appraisal forms we are entitled to a pay rise, so their is no conflict of interest.

3. Taking out PCP is actually a much cheaper way to get telephone support as through PCP its 1p a minute - under the manufacturer warranty the manufactures charge as much as 75p/1.00 a minute for telephone support and they only support hardware.

PCP is great for numerous reasons and i don't have to and i won't go through them all, basically it depends on the customer, if i am talking to a computer literate customer i don't go into PCP too much.

A: Free upgrade labour fully protected B: Free repairs C: Free healthcheck every year D: 24hr telephone support on hardware/software

These can help customers in terms of:

A: No need to buy a new computer because you can keep up to date by simply upgrading the computer you have - manually upgraded void the free 12 month manufacturer warranty B: Repairs are done instore by PC World rather than in a warehouse somewhere done by the manufactures - so you know exactly where the product is and how long it will take C: Check fir virus, and does a 50-point diagnosis test on the machine looking at all aspects D: Good for installing and setting up the computer from the start for computer illiterate customers, also useful for any quick questions or queires rather than come down to PC World

4. Haha as if you can judge my knowledge when you don't even know who i am and what i know, yeah my english in this document may be a bit off but its not like this is serious stuff - how many read this anyway so why use proper english and spellings.

Its true that we have; and other local stores, have employeed some staff that aren't fully up to date on all their knowledge, and even i don't know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING - who does? i seriously doubt you do.

I never meant that we hire anyone off the street, we only hire staff that know enough for the job (the main bits), we don't all need to be experts in every field, aslong as we don't hire completely illiterate staff.

5. Yeah pay is a serious issue, but when you work in such a great atmosphere its not too importand plus by completing training our pay goes up, i just haven't been able to finish all my training modules yet because our training manager had a stroke and i have only been with the company for a few months.

Due to my location and transport problems PC World is my best option at the moment as i have just finished uni, i am looking at other options now and will start driving soon so i am not limitied to local comapnies.

6. I do have a GCSE in English, i even have a A Level in English, i have qualifications coming out of my ears - just because i choose not to use proper english in this mediocre message board doesn't mean i cant in the real world.

7. Customer satisfaction is based on a 100 point system - its to do with questions we ask (home/business use, previous computers, usage, etc..), how quickly customers are acknowledged, and other things of this nature.

This is done by mystery shoppers so we should treat every customer as if it is a mystery shopper and ask the proper questions each time and make sure they are all served properly.

It has nothing to do with what they buy, spend, take out.

We have 2 bonuses - which is what i said, or meant to have said.

Customer Satisfaction Margin through Region

8. We don't have individual targets, and the team targets are quite low and easy to acheive if we have enough staff in, a si mentioned if we all put through 5 sales no matter what price we would easily reach the target - if we don't reach the targets set nothing happens - its just a 'satisfaction incentive' to get us staff to work harder during the day - i.e not hiding in warehouse etc..

We do sell the majority of products at very reasonable prices - only some items such as the USB cable (the only item you have mentioned so you obviously can't think of others) at a higher margin price but hey everyone does this.

Most prices are set by the suppliers such as Netgear, Belkin, Hauppage, etc.. so therefore its not PC Worlds fault, the PC Line products are very cheap and top quality.

9. I have no comment on why their aren't any competitors for PC World - but even if there was i still think most people would come back to us

10. Not going on the net isn't a problem for me, at work i ahve better usage of my time than surf the net.

1. As I'm sure you are aware, this is a common sales tactic. In order to get a cheaper USB cable, the buyer would need to go to another shop and look for one. Extra hassle, extra time. Also, few customers return goods they buy in error.

2. Okay, so you don't get commission on sales. However, you then go on to point out that you have magin targets and the top stores get bonuses. Let me try and spell this out for you. Your performance as a salesman, i.e. the more profit you make for the company by selling things translates directly into monitary rewards for yourself. Presumably, if you consistantly miss sales targets, there will be some negative conciquence. Therefore, it is IN YOUR INTEREST to sell higher margin items, and to convince people they need to spend as much money as possible.

I hope what you wrote really isn't your sales pitch. Here is an example of how to sell someone more than they need. "Well sir, if you go for this one, it's a little bit more but it will be future proofed. You will be able to play games on it, and when Vista comes out it will run that too. This other one is really a basic budget model, and you will probably end up wanting to upgrade it anyway."

Please explain how the appraisal forms work. Is it just a case that customers optionally pick them up and fill them in, or do you give them to customers and ask for them to be filled in?

3. Your statement on manufacturer support is simply false. It varies from company to company, but many offer free online support and telephone support at the price of a local call. Software support again depends on the company, but for example Microsoft offer two free support calls with Windows XP.

Your statement about upgrade voiding the warranty are false too. It depends on the manufacturer, but most allow the installation of PCI cards, memory, extra hard drives etc under the warranty. Also, it is possible to upgrade with external devices like USB HDDs, TV tuners etc.

Your point about repairs being done in-store is true, except in the case where PC World is unable to correct the fault themselves. For example, say you bought a HP PC and the motherboard failed. Would PC World replace the motherboard with an identical one themselves, or would it be sent back to HP for replacement?

Also, PC World staff seem rather inept at repairs. I once bought a PC from PC World which was being sold as scrap because it was beyond repair. I ran a full hardware diagnostic with PC Check, which was fine. I tried the recovery CD and it didn't work. So, I tried an ordinary Windows CD instead, which was fine and the machine is now perfect. So, the staff wrote off a PC because the recovery CD didn't work.

4. I did not suggest I know everything about everything, just that I know a considerable amount about PCs. Also, if you want to make a clear and compelling argument, the quality of your language is important. If it's such a big effort to write properly, perhaps that demonstrates that your English isn't that good. Inability to communicate effectively, particularly in a situation like this where, as you say, I know nothing about you other than what you write, does not help your cause.

5. You admit you have not been with PCW for long, yet claim to know a lot about it. It takes most people more than a few months to form informed and knowledgable oppinions about their employer.

Personally, no matter how good the atmosphere I would be looking for another job on that pay. Also, I'd consider taking legal action against PCW for paying you less than minimum wage.

6. I question your ability. You wrote "doesn't" and "cant". Your inconsistant use of the apostrophy makes me wonder if you simply can't be bothered, or if you think "alot" is a word.

7. Thanks for clarifying. I don't think it contradicts any of the points in the article though.

8. Printer cartridges, all kinds of cables including parallel, ethernet, firewire, internal audio, external audio. Speakers, blank CD/DVD media, paper, network devices, furniture.

Also, it is illegal for manufacturers to set retail prices. Should I report PCW to Trading Standards?

Mojo-chan 13:02, 21 September 2006 (UTC)


1. The USB cables are a ridiculous price, but customer's aren't forced to buy them. Indeed, most customers don't actually need them as printers are often an upgrade to older ones, and they usually have a USB Device cable. And the company is allowed to charge whatever it wishes for a USB cable - at the end of the day, it is a business and PC World has to make a profit. I hardly think buying a USB cable is that much "hassle" - pick one up while you do your shopping at Tesco for crying out loud!

Why do it then? It is a well known, common sales tactic. Other retailers, such as Toys 'r' Us use it. Mojo-chan 17:29, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

2. Reading your response, you're actually saying that PC World employees should sell computers that are only good for today, and they should come back tomorrow for a computer which will run then? Okay - there's no point for a complete overkill, and the fact that PC World employees no longer work on commission indicates that there's no need for them to sell a PC with features a customer will never use, but I think you'll find that when someone wants to buy a PC, they'll want it as a long term investment. Ever consider that if you forked out £600, you might actually want to be able to run Vista in the future too? Why not fork out an extra £100 and have a computer that can last a lot longer for it?

I'll say it again: "Your performance as a salesman, i.e. the more profit you make for the company by selling things translates directly into monitary rewards for yourself." I am not juding your individual actions, or even the reality of the situation, I am simply saying that a conflict of interest exists. Mojo-chan 17:29, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

3. Ever dealt with a manufacturer? Most of them are Premium rate phone numbers, they redirect you out to India and then expect you to wait 10 minutes to speak to a human. And manufacturers like to plead anything to get you to pay for the repair costs - my personal favourite was when HP declared my motherboard was fried because of an Act of God rather than a technical glitch which I know wasn't true. I declined this and they sent me the bill for diagnosis and courier fees. This after they'd taken 6 weeks to even look at the thing!

You seem to be confused... I'm not saying other manufacturers are better, I'm saying PC World has come under fire for it's own support. Also, in answer to your question, I have delt with many manufacturers, which is why I made the statement that their support offerings vary considerably as that is my experience. Mojo-chan 17:29, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

4. As far as I'm aware, PC World (DSG International as a whole, in fact) has a pretty good screening process in terms of applicants - they have to undergo a verbal and numerical reasoning exam, as well as a customer values exam before even getting to an interview and technical knowledge exam. Most other shops will be glad if you even passed your GCSEs..

That's interesting, and would make a useful addition to the article. Can you provide sources? For example, a web application form, or a copy of a printed one with such tests on it? Something we can cite? Mojo-chan 17:29, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

5. You know, pay isn't the be all and end all of a job. I'd personally hate to be in a poor condition job with no staff perks or job satisfaction even if I was earning £10/hour. If you enjoy the job and it pays enough for you to live comfortably, then you don't complain. People elsewhere in the world have it much tougher - get over it.

My point was that you seem to be getting less than the legal minimum wage, which is illegal. I happen to agree that pay is not the most important factor in a job. Mojo-chan 17:29, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

6. That's just a petty personal attack. Grow up.

It was a personal "attack", but I don't think it was petty. Your English seems to have improved somewhat in this latest edit. My point is that the ability to communicate effectively is very important, especially on a discussion forum like this. Like it or not, the quality of your English does affect the way people consider your arguments. Mojo-chan 17:29, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

8. Nice way to twist words - very clever. Did you do a special GCSE English course, or was that for extra credits? Everyone knows that Printer Cartridges are where printer manufacturers make their real money. As the saying goes, "Invent something that people have to keep buying parts for" - that's why disposable razor parts are so expensive. I don't see you giving aggro to supermarkets and drugstores. It's a capitalist world, and everyone is out to make as much money as possible. It isn't going to change anytime soon either.

Again, what relevance does this have to the article? I'm not sure in what way you think I am twisting words. Also, I am generally quite critical of supermarkets in general, but again I don't see what relevance it has to this article. I did not take any kind of special English GCSE course. Mojo-chan 17:29, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and I picked up a cheap set of PC Line speakers for £8 last week, hardly breaking the bank and did the job I need. I think you'll find that the manufacturers have a MRR they put on the product followed by a RRP that PC World has to put on the product. Now unless you're suggesting that PC World should be a non-profit organisaton and should charge rock bottom prices for all of it's products, I can't really see what your point on any of this is. The fact of the matter is that PC World is a retail company with shareholders who have invested money in them like most companies out there. I don't know if you're of some communist background or something, but in the UK the general aim is to make money. Now it seems to me that PC World seems to have done a pretty good job at that or else they wouldn't be the biggest PC retailer in the country - remarkable seeing as the competition from online retailers is pretty intense, and PC World has to factor costs such as rent, utilities, staff training and wages into the expenses lodger.

I'm not questioning captialism, I'm pointing out that enforced pricing from manufacturers/suppliers is illegal in the UK. I'm sure DSG know this. While it is possible for a manufacturer or supplier to set a "recommended retail price", it is in no way enforceable. Any attempt to enforce it is illegal. As such, your comment that "most prices are set by the suppliers" is either false or something illegal is happening. As such, I do not think that claiming high prices on branded goods being set by suppliers is a valid argument. That is what I was trying to say, i.e. I was trying to refute the argument you made. Mojo-chan 17:29, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

And if you are comparing PC World's prices to that of online retailers, maybe you should do a little research and find out the extra expenses PC World has that online retailers don't.

I was comparing it to other "brick and mortar" retailers. Mojo-chan 17:29, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chavster01 recent additions

I have just rv'ed Chavster01's additions pending discussion.

First, what is the "weasle" thing about?

Second, the citation tags. In this instance, I don't think citations for each section are appropriate, for two main reasons. First, if there is to be a citation tag, it should be for the entire section of criticisms. Perhaps a short warning at the start of the section, along the lines of "the following represents oppinons and may not necessarily be fact". Needs better wording.

Also, I have been trying really hard to find citations for this section, but it's difficult. There are plenty of complaints on forums, even people writing their complaints to the page. You will not that the article says "common complatints", without suggesting they are necessarily factual as opposed to perceptual. There are complaints in magazine articles, newspaper articles, many review sites, plus in the references already provided for the article. However, these are difficult to cite in this context. Of course, we are open to suggestions on this one. Mojo-chan 17:34, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deltic edits

User Deltic has proposed to change the section on Gary Glitter to the following:

"In 1999 British pop star Gary Glitter took his PC into a branch of PC World in Bristol for repair, and child pornography was found on the machine. PC World informed the Police, and Glitter was subsequently convicted and imprisoned. This triggered a debate about the ethics of PC World employees trawling for images on machines trusted to them for repair."

Before making this change to an already acceptable (IMHO) section of the article, please discuss it here. My comments are:

1. The current text is fine. If you disagree, please state why.

2. There are a few errors in the above text. The word police does not need to be capitalised. There are some omissions, for example I think it should be pointed out that Glitter's convition was based (at least in part) on the evidence found on his PC. It does not mention precisely what he was convicted of (posession, not child abuse for example). Also, it seems to imply that the debate centred on employees actively looking for images on PCs, when in fact it is not known if they did or not. In other words, the debate was over the plausability of accidental discovery. The original text makes this clear.

3. The citation needed tag still needs to be in there.

I'm not saying the original text is perfect (in fact, I'm off to make a one word edit now) but I do not think the new version is in any way superior. Mojo-chan 17:13, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

My version is fine, you state whats wrong with it. D e l t i c 21:36, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
I did. Please read what I wrote above. There is no point having an edit war, especially if you cannot justify your changes. Please understand that making major edits should improve the article, and when there is a dispute over the edits it is up to you to argue the case for them. At the moment, all you have said is that your version is less "wordy". I have refuted that above, please respond. Note, that a one line response is not sufficient for a debate. Mojo-chan 22:50, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
meh.

[edit] The Connected Home

I have added a new section on The Connected Home - feel free to add/edit as required. 82.152.214.137 17:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I edited it a little. Have to noticed how the scroll arrows on their web site scroll the wrong way? Mojo-chan 18:21, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I picked up on that. Also like how it's really not Google friendly.. 82.152.214.137 21:44, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

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